Lowells..preying on the vulnerable!

[kennyparkroad]

doesnt matter if they cashed it or not, they have recieved it and you have proof

 

the clock is ticking.

[Zimmie]

Thanks Kenny,

I've just been reading on several other threads about people getting fairly fast acknowledgement of CCA requests from Lowells...I wonder why I haven't had mine acknowledged. I wonder...do they think I'm insignificant...I really hope so

[allykat]

Don't worry Zimmie....there have been lots of threads concerning replies to the CCA requests...in some cases people have had their cheques returned to them, and sometimes DCA's use the money to pay some of the debt off! Because they are idiots.

 

But so long as you have proof that they have received your request, then don't worry what they do next, just sit back and wait

[Zimmie]

Good Morning,

Well Lowell seem to have come up with the goods in my case! I've just received a photocopy of my application form and I think its legit. I don't have a scanner so I'll try and explain it.

 

It states application form at the top, then there are sections numbered 1 to 10 for name/address, employment, etc details.

Then there is a section headed Data Protection act and under that a section headed Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and although from the quality of the photocopy I can't make out what the small print says, its signed by myself and by someone for Bank of Scotland.

They also sent me a letter advising me that Lowell Portfolio had bought the debt, and that they, Financial had been appointed to collect it. A section of this letter I must quote:

 

"It is our aim to help you clear the indebtedness you currently have with ourselves by either agreeing a settlement or a repayment plan. You will find we have many flexible repayment plans designed to suit your current financial circumstances.

Please call the number below where one of our experienced negotiators will assist you in finding the ideal option for you."

 

Well you have to laugh don't you? I've been trying to negotiate with them since January!!

 

They haven't sent me any statements unfortunately, just another letter stating the balance, and that the account is defaulted.

 

Is my next step to SAR Bank Of Scotland? If I do how do I respond to Lowells...they want my proposals for payment within 7 days.

I feel inclined to say I refer you to my 8 previous letters...but feel I'd better not.

 

Any advice please.

[bgqs]

Subscribing to this....I have just received letter stating they will ask Crap 1 for the agreement....I am now waiting and the clock is ticking !

[CG7]

Hi zimmie,

I am in the same position with dca they sent me a copy of my initial application form with a bit about this is a credit agreement, according to someone on here, that is not enough it should be the executed agreement they send and not the initial application form, so i have wrote back requesting just that. Hope this helps.

 

cg

maybe you could do the same.

[Zimmie]

Hi CG7, thanks for your post. Since I posted about receiving the form this morning I have been reading up on here and through google search, and I also get the impression that what they sent me may not be valid. From what I've read it should clearly state an APR and other financial details. I'll copy & paste what I found............

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

If you enter into a credit agreement which is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act you must be given a written copy of the agreement when you take out the loan. This must set out:-

 

what type of credit agreement it is, for example, credit sale, hire purchase or conditional sale

the true cost of the credit, worked out according to a special formula (APR)

the amount of each payment, when it is due to be paid, and how it is made up (loan, interest, administration charge)

your cancellation rights and whether you can pay off the debt early (see under heading Paying the loan off early).

Well none of this is on my application form. It doesn't give a credit limit either, only shows the limit I ticked a box to apply for...nowhere does it say this limit was agreed, although maybe their signature on the form confirms it!

 

More worrying is that I've since been looking long and hard at this form they sent me (with my glasses on!), and I noticed that the form has been folded before photocopying, so a section about 'creditcare' which is sickness protection for payments is obscured, you can see I've signed, but I'm not sure whether it was to have this protection, and in all honesty I took the card out in 1999, and just can't remember. If I had this protection...well I've suffered from very poor health since 2001, I even lost my job because of health! So I really would like to know what the folded bit is hiding!

I think I may have to request an unfolded copy!

Good luck with yours CG, keep me updated how it goes, or let me know your thread so I can follow it.

Regards, Zim.

[CG7]

Hi Zimmie,

Yes you do that, request an executed agreement from your dca, my situation is ditto to yours, it really is, so I am just waiting for a reply back from them at the moment.

best of luck,

cg

[Zimmie]

Hi,

Thanks CG for giving me the push I needed, after receiving their reply yesterday the dark cloud started floating back...but I'm back in Lowell bashing mood again now

Well I've been doing lots of reading, even got through a lot of the monster CCA/application form thread! I've had a look at some of the online credit card application details...and they all say once your application is approved, you will be sent an agreement (or very similar)! So I am sure that an application form is not valid as an agreement. The one they have sent me shows no APR, no limit agreed by them, no reypament details. Also I managed to read a section at the top of the form and it states:

Failure to complete all sections of this form may delay acceptance of your application. Post in the enclosed envelope to the address shown at the foot of this application.

 

So I'm in the process of putting a letter together, I'll C & P what I've put so far, hoping someone can advise me if its OK so far, and anything else I need to add. Sorry if there is a template for this, but I can't find one.

Should I put in my letter that I'm sending a SAR to Bank of Scotland, both letters will go recorded delivery tomorrow.

 

Also what constitutes a Statement of Account? All Lowells sent me was a letter from them stating the amount they consider I owe and showing the status as defaulted. Which I may have wrong...but I've been making them token payments monthly since Jan...is it right they have classed it defaulted?

 

Hope someone can help. Thanks.

Zim

[Zimmie]

Sorry I forgot to C & P the letter!!

 

Mr Andrew Bartle,

Lowell Financial Ltd.,

P. O. Box 172,

Leeds.

LS11 9WS

Dear Sir,

Re:

I am in receipt of your communication dated 13th April 2007 which was in response to my lawful request under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a copy of a Consumer Credit Agreement. This request was dated 28th March 2007, and received by yourselves on 2nd April 2007. I attach of copy of this request for your ease of reference.

The copy document you have provided me with is barely legible, and I note that prior to photocopying it has been folded thereby obscuring a section. However, I also note that this is a copy of an application form, and not as requested under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a true, executed copy of an agreement

[dannyboy660]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/76046-lowell-financial-help-required.html

 

"It is our aim to help you clear the indebtedness you currently have with ourselves by either agreeing a settlement or a repayment plan. You will find we have many flexible repayment plans designed to suit your current financial circumstances.

Please call the number below where one of our experienced negotiators will assist you in finding the ideal option for you."

 

 

You don't have a debt with Lowell - only if you acknowledge it and start paying.

 

They've 'bought' a debt from whoever, and send out worthless bits of paper hoping you'll pay up.

 

You entered into an agreement with the creditor and included the proviso that should you default, they could appoint a third party to COLLECT on their behalf, thereby reducing their overheads, and you pay your debt in full to those you owe. Read the small print on CCA'74 - did you give permission for the debt and your details to be sold outright to an unconnected third party, for a tiny fraction of it's value??? Highly unlikely.

 

If you've not already been paying Lowell, contest any amount they might claim in any unlikely court action.

 

If you've already been paying them, that will probably be seen as an admission you owe the money to Lowell. After all, you wouldn't pay money to the milkman if he told you he'd bought the IOU you gave your Mum, for the 100 quid you owed her. Think about it.

 

You owe them nothing. They tell you they 'bought' the debt, but it's a classic case of Caveat Emptor. Tell them to take a hike.

 

 

Again....just an opinion, and not necessarily sound advice.

[Zimmie]

Hi Dannyboy, thanks for your post.

Well as to signing to agree that should I default they could hire a 3rd party to collect...I don't think so, but in response to my CCA to Lowlls, all I got was an application form which is barely legible. There are no terms and conditions shown, and the section under Data Protection is not readable.

I did have a credit card with BOS through Unison, after I became too ill to work I went to CAB with all my debts for help, BOS didn't even bother to respond to CABs letters, as 2 other creditors didn't. CAB told me they couldn't make them reply, said sit back and wait for them to come after you again and closed my file. I've found out some of the paperwork I have about my debts when I went to CAB and it shows my CC debt to BOS as just over £1000. Lowells are demanding over £2600...hence I want absolute clarification that they have a right to collect this.

I have done my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to BOS, will be sent tomorrow (rec del). I would have sent it sooner but I hoped that some statements might come via CCA request....Plus I couldn't afford the £10!

I made token payments to Lowells purely because they were really grinding me down, and at the time I hadn't found CAG, and so didn't know my rights, I just wanted to get them off my back...no luck by the way! The stress of their constant threats has caused another stroke, minor fortunately, and my Mental Health which was starting to improve has gone into remission...all because of Lowells trying to make a fast buck out of someone's misfortune!

Anyway thanks DB, and to update I've done SAR to BOS & to Egg (but thats another thread when I've got things with Lowells in hand), and I've got my letter to Lowells disputing their crappy copy of an application form in response to my CCA request ready to take to post tomorrow.

My original CCA request to Lowells was received on 2nd April...I reckon that gives them until 19th April to comply..I think.

In response to my own question a couple of posts above re: should I tell Lowells that I'm sending a SAR to BOC, I've decided I shouldn't tell them anything that at this stage they don't need to know.

BUT if anyone can clarify what constitues a statement of account, please do, as what they sent me isn't what I expected. They sent me a letter from themselves showing the balance they want, and stating it is defaulted.

If they should have sent more info I'd really like to able to ask about it on my letter which I'm posting tomorrow.

Any advice greatly received

 

Zim

[kennyparkroad]

bump

[Zimmie]

Hi all,

Well I sent my letter to Lowells as in post 35 on Monday recorded del, it was received by them yesterday. Low and behold there was that familiar envelope lying on the mat when I got up this morning...you know..the one that gives you a warm comforting feeling

So I made a coffee, fed the cats, cleaned the litter tray, switched the pc on, checked my e-mail, made another coffee..then opened my letter. Well I was expecting some sort of response to the letter they had rec'd yesterday.

It was another copy of the letter they had sent me on Saturday stating that they had bought the alleged debt, like the one they sent me Saturday it had the date as 13/4/2007. I'm a little confused now...or maybe they are! My letter clearly stated I wanted a true, excuted copy of an agreement. So I'm wondering if they think this letter meets with my requirements, or whether they just thought I'd miss them if they didn't send me something.

Incidently they still havent cashed my £1 chq for the CCA, and they haven't cashed my chq for my token payment which I sent about the same time. Maybe not cashing my payment is a crafty way of saying I defaulted! Who knows with these jokers.

I think their 12 days (request signed for on 2nd April) is up tomorrow, or maybe Friday.

Should I sit tight until the time limit is up, or write saying thanks for the copy of a copy of a copy...but its not what I want?

 

Zim

(Member of The Nigel Beaven From Lowells Went Into Work On Christmas Day Just To Send Me A Letter club)

[kennyparkroad]

i would wait for them to default and THEN send a letter saying

 

 

Thanks for your letter dated xxxxx the content of which is noted.

 

On (whatever date you sent the CCA) I made a written request for a copy of the executed agreement under s77/78 CCA. This letter was sent by recorded delivery and signed for at your office (insert date)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

Please note that your company is now in default as this request was not complied with within 12 working days as prescribed by the CCA.

I now require that you provide me with a copy of the correct document, or your written acknowledgement that you are unable to do so, within 14 days of receipt of this letter.

 

Please also note that until such time as you do provide me with a true copy of this document, the agreement remains unenforceable and no further payments will be made.

 

Yours faithfully,

[Zimmie]

Thanks Kenny, I've saved your letter ready for use. I actually believe that they are in default of the 12 days of today...but I'm gonna sit back for a while and see if they send anymore threatening letters whilst they are in default before sending your letter to them.

It would be great if they couldn't come up with a true copy agreement, then I can make them a F&F settlement based the amount minus illegal charges, at a percentage I estimate they bought the debt for, minus the token payments I've already made!

However, I tend to have as much luck as an elephant taking up embroidery does

Will update as and when,

Zim.

 

(Member of The Nigel Beaven From Lowells Went Into Work On Christmas Day Just to Send Me A Letter Club)

[kennyparkroad]

hang on your missing the point,

 

if they cant come up with thetrue signed copy, YOU DONT PAY THEM ANYTHING and you force them to write the debt off.

 

plus you should be sending an SAR to claim back the illegal charges whether they give you a true signed copy or not.

 

so recap

 

if they cant provide you with documents you have no legal obbligation to pay them a thing!

 

making sense?

 

Kenny - just had 2k written off by Littlewoods because they couldnt supply documentation saying i owed the debt.

[Zimmie]

Hi Kenny,

I think I must be missing the point, and maybe the plot! If only I had a credit card, I'b be off to Body Shop for a new brain!

 

I sent the SAR on Monday, received by BoS on Tuesday...but...maybe if I'd got that new brain I'd work this out myself, how can I actually claim back illegal charges if I haven't paid them as such.

 

I was hoping that through the CCA/SAR process I could establish Lowells legal right to collect this amount, and to hopefully have it reduced because of illegal charges + interest on them being piled on.

 

But thanks Kenny you've given me food for thought.

 

Hugs, Zim.

 

(Member of The Nigel Beaven From Lowells Went Into Work On Christmas Day Just To Send Me A Letter Club)

[Zimmie]

Hi all, an update. Today I rec'd this reply to my letter (post 35) regarding the copy application form they sent in response to CCA request:

 

Thank you for your letter xxxxxx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

We can confirm that the copy application we forwarded to you on xxxxx is covered by the consumer credit act. Please see enclosed agreement which has the relevant portion highlighted for ease of reference.

 

This states that by signing the application you agree to the terms and conditions set out by the consumer credit act of 1974.

 

We can also confirm that the application form was forwarded to you as it arrived from our client and that no attempt has been made by us to obscure any of the document.

 

With reference to the quality of the document we can only reiterate again that we have forwarded you the copy sent to us by our client, XXXXXX. However due to the nature of the archiving process used by our client it is sometimes difficult to produce a perfect copy of the document filled out by yourself.

 

We trust this clarifies the situation, however if you have any further queries regarding the account, please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

They have sent me another copy of the application form with a pretty yellow line drawn around the small section relating to Credit Agreement regulated by CCA 1974, the small print on this is almost impossible to read, but I have (by standing in the garden with my glasses on and squinting) just managed to read one line of.............

 

If my application is accepted I authorise you to..... sorry I can't read the rest!

 

I would add that where I commented earlier about the application being folded, hiding the PPI section, I have also noticed that not only is it folderd by I can see a line on both sides of the fold showing that it was also stapled to keep the fold in place!

 

Any suggestions for my next step?

 

Many thanks

[kennyparkroad]

i would reply with.

 

I refer to your letter dated xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

I note that you have sent me a copy of the application form for this account.

However, on the (DATE YOU MADE CCA REQUEST) I made a written request for a copy of the executed agreement under s77/78 CCA. This letter was sent by recorded delivery and signed for at your office on (DATE IT WAS SIGNED FOR).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

Please note that your company is now in default as this request was not complied with within 12 working days as prescribed by the CCA (ONLY PUT THIS IF IT APPLIES)

I now require that you provide me with a copy of the correct document, or your written acknowledgement that you are unable to do so, within 14 days of receipt of this letter.

 

Please also note that until such time as you do provide me with a true copy of this document, the agreement remains unenforceable and no further payments will be made.

 

Yours faithfully,

[dannyboy660]

This states that by signing the application you agree to the terms and conditions set out by the consumer credit act of 1974.

 

Which does not include your permission to sell the debt or your personal details to an unconnected party.

 

We can also confirm that the application form was forwarded to you as it arrived from our client and that no attempt has been made by us to obscure any of the document.

 

"as it arrived from our Client" suggests they are now saying they are acting on behalf of the creditor, did not OWN the debt, and therefore had no legal right to collect from you.

 

They have sent me another copy of the application form with a pretty yellow line drawn around the small section relating to Credit Agreement regulated by CCA 1974, the small print on this is almost impossible to read, but I have (by standing in the garden with my glasses on and squinting) just managed to read one line of.............

 

If my application is accepted I authorise you to..... sorry I can't read the rest!

 

"IF my application is accepted" is the key wording here.......what you need to see is the document confirming your application was accepted, and duly countersigned etc.

 

Lowell said they own the debt, but if you read the wording carefully, they clearly state CCA was received from their client.

 

If you have the original letter in which they categorically claim to own the debt, and the "pay up or else stuff", this could be seen as an attempted fraud. At the very least, deception.

 

Time to go on the offensive perhaps????

[kennyparkroad]

totally agree! well spotted

[Zimmie]

Hi and thanks Kenny & Dannyboy.

 

I did wonder about the use of the term 'our client' as they have sent me 3 letters claiming to have bought the alleged debt. I think I ought to take issue with them about that. Surely they should have referred to BoS as Original Creditor if they have indeed bought it.

 

I'm still very miffed that they think its ok to send a copy application form which at best only 3 words out of 10 are just about readable. I mean I could if I chose to refer them to the section which states pay if the fancy takes you...they can't say it doesn't say that as I'm sure they can't read it either!

 

As for the section that is so top secret that it had to be hidden in case I saw it.....well! I don't care who folded it...it remains folded, and I am unable to see if PPI was applied for!

 

Time to get writing methinks

[dannyboy660]

"Client" could refer to the parent company Lowell Portfolio, but you still have them on a couple of other counts anyway.

 

Incidentally, I hear that Lowell Portfolio II are in a bit of poop with Companies House for late filing of accounts.

 

Now then, are they on the fiddle......or are they beginning to struggle a bit........or both???

[Zimmie]

Both probably Danny!

 

Anyway how does this sound for starters:

 

Dear Sirs,

Re:

I am in receipt of your correspondence dated 24th April 2007 regarding the copy application form sent in response to my CCA request dated 28th March 2007, signed for by yourselves on 2nd April 2007, and I note your comments.

However, whereas you claim that this application form is covered by The Consumer Credit Act, I beg to differ in that it is clearly entitled Application Form. The section of the application form which you claim concerns terms and conditions set out by The Consumer Credit Act 1974 is pre-contractual. Whilst the small print is, as previously stated barely legible, I am able to make out a small section within the area you highlighted which states:

If my application is accepted…………

Below that in block capitals:

APPLICANTS SIGNATURE

I would also refer you to a section on the top right hand side of the application form which states:

FAILURE TO COMPLETE ALL SECTIONS OF THIS FORM MAY DELAY ACCEPTANCE OF YOUR APPLICATION.

Next I'm going to mention that the PPI section should be clearly visible, then a bit about terms & conditions, then ask for a true copy of agreement.

Is this going in the right direction?