Broken Xbox 360 - what are my rights?

[jampot]

We bought one of the first batches of Xbox 360 back in December 2005 - it was purchased from play.com (internet retailer) and was absolutely fine until it completely broke in November 2006 (still, obviously, within its normal warranty period).

 

The telephone advice from play.com was to contact Microsoft directly who would handle any necessary repair / replacement, and as I knew of other people who had followed this same route, it seemed easier, quicker and more expedient than trying to get play.com to act as an agent and simply ship the unit back to Microsoft themselves, delaying the repair and complicating the process.

 

Microsoft were pretty good, and were not able to repair the unit, so we were sent a replacement (presumably refurbished) unit which wasn't a problem, and it worked fine and was in cosmetically good condition (unlike some stories I've heard...)

 

However, the replacement Xbox 360 recently started showing symptoms of another fault (different this time) a couple of weeks ago. Microsoft say they only issue a 30 day warranty on the replacements they ship and won't be drawn into discussion about the matter.

 

Play.com's initial response was "Not our problem, it isn't covered by our returns policy." which I'm obviously not happy with. This time, the Xbox 360 actually damaged a £50 game disk, so it isn't even just the cost of the console this time around.

 

I have already written a sternly worded email to play.com, bringing to their attention the Sale Of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) and this was both emailed and send recorded delivery to their company address.

 

I am concerned, however, that having accepted a refurbished console directly from Microsoft, I have inadvertently relinquished any claim I may later have against the original retailer - despite the fact that I went directly to Microsoft at their express suggestion. I don't have any record of them suggesting this (it was a telephone conversation) but I'm pretty certain it is their policy, so shouldn't have any problem convincing anyone that the conversation did actually take place.

 

The original batches of Xbox 360 have suffered from a fair number of hardware faults, and Microsoft have been forced (in America) to extend people's guarantees to cover these "known" issues - but are refusing to do anything for UK customers.

 

Where do I stand? Am I right in chasing play.com as the retailer, or should I switch my focus to Microsoft, as the original manufacturer and the supplier of the obviously duff replacement?

 

If anyone has any direct experience of how retailers / Microsoft are handling the problems with the Xbox 360 now the first ones are well out of warranty, I'd love to hear your stories here...

 

Thanks

[rosiecotton]

Sadly by accepting a replacement from Microsoft you now have a different machine to the one Play sold you, therefore you may have lost any claim under the Sale of Goods Act against Play. You may be able to argue that you went to Microsoft on the direct advice of Play and therefore the replacement was effectively requested by Play - but as you say, proving this could be slightly tricky.

 

Microsoft as the manufacturers are only liable under any warranty they would be prepared to issue - they are under no obligation to offer any warranty at all and they are free to set their own terms and conditions in any they do. You would need to check the terms and conditions of the original warranty to see how liable they are.

 

You could try chasing Play and state that you only went to Microsoft on their express advice, therefore the replacement was on their advice and they remain liable under the Sale of Goods Act. Ultimately, however, you could only enforce this in court and hope that the judge will agree.

[jampot]

Sadly by accepting a replacement from Microsoft you now have a different machine to the one Play sold you, therefore you may have lost any claim under the Sale of Goods Act against Play. You may be able to argue that you went to Microsoft on the direct advice of Play and therefore the replacement was effectively requested by Play - but as you say, proving this could be slightly tricky.

 

Microsoft as the manufacturers are only liable under any warranty they would be prepared to issue - they are under no obligation to offer any warranty at all and they are free to set their own terms and conditions in any they do. You would need to check the terms and conditions of the original warranty to see how liable they are.

 

You could try chasing Play and state that you only went to Microsoft on their express advice, therefore the replacement was on their advice and they remain liable under the Sale of Goods Act. Ultimately, however, you could only enforce this in court and hope that the judge will agree.

 

Thanks - that's pretty much the situation as I thought it might be.

 

A stark warning not to follow ANY advice from retailers directing you elsewhere for repairs, even if doing so is quicker and easier

[jampot]

An interesting response from play.com

 

Comments on this?

 

**************

 

We are sorry to hear of the problems you have been experiencing with

the Xbox 360 you purchased from us.

We appreciate that you are disappointed that the item has developed a

fault, however due to the time that has elapsed it is no longer

covered by our returns policy.

We are happy to arrange collection of the item, and a replacement or a

refund. However before we do this it will be necessary for us to see a

fault report stating that the fault in the item was present at

purchase.

You will note that by law if you wish to return an item for a refund,

replacement or repair, then, if it has been over six months since the

item was purchased, then you must be able to prove that the fault was

present when you purchased the goods. The burden of proof is on you,

the consumer.

You will need to contact the manufacturer, and then get the item

examined. If you can provide a fault report stating that the fault was

present at purchase then we will arrange the return of the item. If

you cannot prove that the fault was there when you first received the

Xbox 360 then we regret to say that we will not be able to accept it

back.

We are sorry that we cannot offer you any further help at this time.

Kind regards

Customer Care Team

Play

[blacksheep1979]

you could try writing back saying that what they have written is only part of the sale of goods act and another part basically states that goods should be of sufficient quality and last for a reasonable period of time. For a £300 games console you would expect it to last longer than it has.

[jampot]

Well as they haven't immediately denied liability on the grounds that this isn't the original console, it is looking promising from that standpoint.

 

However, it does give rise to an interesting question. As this is a replacement console which is supposedly UNDER 6 months old (it was swapped out under their policy directly from Microsoft) would it be fair to claim that *THIS* console is within its initial 6 months (for the purposes of "burden of proof") or is that too much to ask for?

 

Failing that, do I actually *need* to provide the evidence they are asking for, if I'm going after a "non-durability" argument? If it breaks down, it breaks down... it hasn't lasted as long as a reasonable person would expect, so do I actually need to show exactly what is wrong?

 

In a similar vein - they've requested a fault report from Microsoft. Would an independent engineer suffice instead? Surely if a defect is discovered, I can pass on any costs associated with getting an independent review, and could reasonably expect those to be paid by the retailer?

 

Any more suggestions? I want to go after them with both barrels purely out of principle...

[blacksheep1979]

I wouldn't go broadcasting that its a new product. If you are going down the durability line then all you have to prove is that its broken.

 

Why do you want to go after them with 'both barrels'? Its often much more effective to keep everything civilised, especially when they haven't sofar refused anything.

[jampot]

Its easy to prove that it is broken, but if the burden of proof is on ME to show that it wasn't done after it was purchased, then that'll mean an engineer report etc.

 

By "both barrels" I just meant to take them to task. They fobbed us to Microsoft in November and are now (initially) point-blank refused to help, and it wasn't until I quoted SOGA that they took me seriously. For that alone, I want to make sure this is dealt with properly as a matter of principle. It will be civilised, but I want to defeat them

[rory32]

From http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html

 

Sale of Goods Act:

If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)

• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.

[rory32]

From http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html

 

Sale of Goods Act:

If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)

• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.

[Albino]

Well. I purchased a 360 on the 2nd of Dec 2005 (release date). I have since sent it back 3 times and it is now ready for its 4th return.

 

All 3 previous issues were Disc drive failure related. On returning the console the 3rd time I was told it is definately a CD drive fault and that this time it has been totally replaced (The drive that is). I would note that it has gone approximately once every 6 months and with its most recent problem we are near on the next 6 monthly period.

 

This time I have the error of the red lights of death with console also not reading CD's and not even turning on sometimes.

 

Indicates a hardware fault. Could be the drive, my feeling is the sound card has gone from symptons I've suffered.

 

I have absolutely no faith in MS and the 360 anymore.

 

I have left them with an ultimatum. Either replace my console totally with the new Elite model OR re-emburse me to the amount of £1492.50 which is approximately the total I have paid on the console.

 

(This relates to the 40 or so games I have, camera, 3 controllers, numerous breaking headsets, market place points etc etc)

 

I have to put my hand up here and say that unfortunately I have no life and although I hold down a full time, 35 hour a week job, I am addicted to gaming and regularily play between 50 - 60 hours on the console per week.

 

Crazy I know but this should not detract from the fact that Trades Discrimination and the likes would have a field day. Would you purchase a DVD player to have to send it back twice a year?

 

Now you could say "But you have no life, its not designed to take that much abuse". Although I do game an AWFUL lot. There are people who take gaming very seriously e.g. industry boffs and lets say students. I mean theres even people who play professionally for a living (Think in the US your more likely to find people like this as theres no money for it in the UK really). These machines should be designed to take this much use.

 

Also I have been a gamer since the 80's and I have never had problems with equal amounts of usage of all other consoles I've owned or PC's. Even my old Xbox console lasted 4 years and only needed 1 return.

I have owned at least 8 - 10 different gaming machines over the last 2 decades and only MS products have had faults of any kind.

 

I'm sorry. I'm starting to rant now but the summary of this is..... IMO.... That MS have a beautiful crafted machine idea BUT to save costs the parts can handle no kind of constant use whatsoever and readily break after a lot of use.

 

I have an image of say 2 years from now that every 360 console out there would have been returned. My theory is that even those who dont take gaming as seriously as me will eventually find that their mild "wear + tear" / use will result in something internal going wrong.

 

The question I pose is as follows.

 

In relation to the ultimatum I left above, MS have stated I will get a callback from a manager who I know will just babble on about their policy.

 

However I am having none of it and was wondering about legal action / steps I might take once they state we'll either repair or replace ur 360 (with bog standard version). Anyone got Bill Gates address? even tho he's retired. Lol

 

As explained, for a £300 piece of equipment to break so commonly I'm sure there are laws pertaining to the sale of electronic goods and what they should be able to do.

 

Hopefully people are still reading these posts as the last one is dated some time ago.

 

Cheers for any help

 

Albino

[blitz]

Where did you buy the xbox 360 from?

 

Essentially you have a 3 year backdated warranty on the xbox 360, for any manufactering faults that occur with the machine. Microsoft do not have to honor said ultimatum, and unless you actually brought it from them, you are bound to their terms and conditions set out in the warranty they offer.

 

Any request for an exchange / refund would need to be met by the retailer you purchased it from as a request under the sales of goods act. It would also be for a judge to decide you were entitled to compensation for any games and accessories.

[Albino]

I know about the new 3 year warranty as offered by Microsoft on release consoles and for this reason I will not be paying for any repairs again.

 

HOWEVER I have learnt through the Grapevine that the standard life of an electrical product in the UK should meet the requirements to last at least 3 years? (Info from a friend who has a degree in Business of some sort - Sorry if this is vague)

 

Perhaps a coincidence that MS has extended its warranty to 3 years? My theory is that MS will happily repair these consoles over and over until the 3 years is up. At which point we have no right of any return. I foresee my Xbox being returned then dying in a further 6 months, having another replacement and / or repair where Microsoft say sorry. "No Go". Thats the 3 years up but IMHO electronics should not be this unreliable and I have never purchased any electronics as unreliable as this.

 

As I stated before I do use the console an excessive amount but this kind of shoddy workmanship should not be accepted.

 

I understand also that they do not have to comply with my request of an elite and / or full re-embursement but with todays supposedly "pro-customer" world I feel my complaints could lead to something.

 

I could be wrong BUT I am sure that one of the issues about the console where people have contacted the media e.g. Watchdog, have since been offered total replacement consoles and in one case I believe I have heard as a good will gesture Microsoft offered an Elite console.

 

Another reason I have put this post out is to see if there are any people in the same boat as me with a similar amount of playing time?

Unfortunately I only use a PC from work and most websites are controlled and Games is a filtered subject. Therefore I am unable to post in the official Xbox forums which really would be an ideal place to gain info on other peoples problems.

 

Sorry. I forgot to answer your question.

 

I bought my 360 console from the Game store in the centre of Cardiff.

 

Albino

[Albino]

Please read reply above but here is some further info I've found.....

 

Beat the out-of-guarantee blues | Cash | The Observer

 

Link to Guardian / Observer website and an article relating to "How long an electrical item should last".

 

Seems like the law for reasonable working is up to "6 YEARS".

 

It explains the procedure surrounding small claims courts and your rights after a warranty has expired. There are examples included of people who have used this process and been successful.

 

Hope this helps anyone and / or myself possibly in the near future.

 

Albino

[blitz]

The 6 year period is the length of time you can take a case to court after the date of purchase in England and Wales, not the period for which goods (including electrical) should last.

It always depends on the exact item, wear and tear, and in the end upto a judge.

 

Just a note in your case its GAME you need to make a claim against, you cannot make a claim against Microsoft in this case. A manufacture (in this case Microsoft) is not bound by the sales of goods act, and only has to follow its own t&c in its warranty. An Xbox should last 3 years (proof of this is in the 3yr warranty period), and should be brought up with GAME should microsoft not meet your request.

 

{edit} should last at least* 3 years

[Albino]

Sorry. Couple of my mistakes then. As you say its the court hearing time frame.

 

BUT IMHO most companies would rather do without the bad press / cost of small claims so "out of court" settlements might be quite common.

 

I am in an OK situation as I comply with the new 3 year rule BUT am still worried as to what will happen Dec 2008 when this runs out.

 

Also as you state if I were to refer to courts then my case would be against Game rather than Microsoft directly.

 

I still feel this (Court action / media notification) could be a good thing to throw at them (Game or MS) to try to push a resolution.

 

I still find it absolutely ridiculous that a claim should be made against Game. They hardly originally manufactured the product and / or failed to get it fixed each time it has been returned. Surely there must be some way that Microsoft is accountable for this shoddy piece of machinery in the first place?

 

PS I have forgotten to say thanks for all the help and info you've offered. Cheers

 

Albino

[demon_x_slash]

Your contract for the original item was with Game, as Game was the retailer that you bought it from. Subsequently, any action regarding the original item should be directed to Game, as they are legally responsible for selling a 'shoddy piece of machinery'

[Albino]

Thats cool.... and I understand now the process if I were to pursue this after warranty claim. I still find it absolutely absurd that Game should be held responsible though. Unfortunately this is just the way things work.

 

For the time being I am still well within my 3 year warranty period.

 

Don't know if I mentioned but I called the helpline for MS on Monday and a callback was promised within 48 hours and I specified after my working hours.

 

Was ready to receive a missed call at work because thats what usually happens (They call back promptly but wrong time usually). This time however they didn't even bother to return a call so I will be having harsh words with their call centre this afternoon.

 

"U know u have a problem when.............

Xbox support is a speed dial on your mobile!"

 

Thanks again for all your help people.

 

Albino

[frapezlesinge]

Hi folks, total noob to the forums here, but after googling found this thread and thought I'd pass on my ongoing experience.

 

Firstly, thanks for the folks who've offered good advice so far, as without it I'd have gone straight to Microsoft for a replacement for my product under the terms of 3 year warranty, rather than using the Sale of Goods Act.

 

My 360 got the general hardware failure last night (it's 17 months old), so having read the stuff here I phoned GAME where I bought it, who refused to replace it saying it wasn't their problem and I should send it to Microsoft (this was even after I pointed out the Sale Of Goods Act).

 

I wasn't satisfied so phoned Head Office who initially stated yes I'm in the right - the store should have replaced it, but after Head Ofice spoke to the store they then changed their minds and quoted the "it's past our 1 year guarantee" line that the store of purchase had also spouted out. Again I pointed out they were quite clearly breaching the Sale Of Goods Act and my statutory rights, but this made no difference to their stance.

 

So, I've just phoned the Trading Standards folks who tell me I'm categorically in the right - my contract of sale was with GAME, not Microsoft, and to place in writing (keeping a copy for myself) via Recorded Delivery my grievances both to the store of purchase and GAME Head Office. They also told me to quote the "Satisfactory quality, free from defects and fit for purpose" part of the Sale of Goods Act as the product quite clearly isn't. I've to allow them 5 working days upon receipt of the letter to resolve this dispute to my satisfaction, or call Trading Standards back and they'll advise on what to do next and how to take things further.

 

Also, Trading Standards told me to write to my Credit Card company with whom the purchase was made and let them know of the dispute, and to quote Section 75 Consumer Credit Act which places joint responsibility on financial recompense with both them and GAME, should a replacement 360 not be forthcoming.

 

The letters are going in the post first thing in the morning, so I'll keep folks here informed as to how it pans out.

 

Cheers!

[Albino]

Frapezle

 

Just hope u dont have as many problems as I've had with mine.

 

Process u took is correct and fine

 

IMO (In my Opinion) Microsoft should not release a product if its shoddy in the first place. I have the 3 year warranty and am still within there.

 

I have not sent it back yet as I have sent a letter of complaint to both their customer services and also Steve Ballmer (The current head of Microsoft). I have read lots of other instances where people like myself (with faults, time and time and time again) have contacted them directly and have been offered new consoles as replacement. I'm playing along this route as althought the legal process is via Game (In my case) I dont think its fair and Microsoft need to give answers.

 

Out of interest. You say u've had it 17 months?

 

Do you know roughly how much (in hours) you play a week?

and

Is this the first and only problem you've ever had.

 

I am shortly going to create a blog to try and ascertain a true figure for faulty Xbox's and / or try to determine from this info whether there seems to a correlating shelf life of the machine due to total hours you use it?

 

Cheers

Albino

[frapezlesinge]

Hi Albino

 

I'd agree that Microsoft deserves a kick in the fiscals over this, afterall it's their mistakes not GAME's, but unfortunately it seems the way the law works punishes the consumer in terms of hassle and the store financially, not the manufacturer.

 

17 months and yeah this is the first problem, played fairly lightly - maybe around 6-8 hours a week at a guess (and never usually in longer sessions than 2 hours to prevent overheating). The even more annoying thing is it's kept in an open space on all sides, totally dust free and really well looked after, so I know it's nothing I've done to the thing.

 

I'm not so sure as to the theory of game time played however as there are many examples to be found of the 3 light general hardware failure occurring on brand new machines - personally I just think they were made hurriedly and cheaply, and design flaws weren't spotted. If you check xbox360.com (from memory) they did a huge survey on it of thousands of people, and some folks were on their double figures of machines owned as Microsoft send refurbished units to replace the broken one sent in by the customer, so there's a good chance the already repaired machine will break down much more quickly.

 

Plain fact is (as intimated by the letter from Microsoft about the warranty) is that earlier versions of this console were badly made. The problems all seem to develop, from what I've read, due to poor insulation of the heat sink and a chip set that works too hot for the fans to cope with (hence the hoover-like sound effects when the damn things are switched on!). The new smaller 65nm Falcon chip set should (in theory!) help alleviate some of these problems.

[Albino]

Cheers for the response Frap (Hope its ok to call u that. Lol)

 

Well I worked out that mine breaks down roughly every 7 months (Nearer 6 months but thought I'd give it the benefit of the doubt)

 

I do play an awful lot.

 

I have worked out I regularily play 50 hours a week. About 5 hours per working day after work and easily 12 hours per day Sat and Sun.

 

Dont think I go above 50 hours of gameplay.

 

I worked out that this equates to 1500 hours of playtime before it needs a repair.

 

Urs has lasted about 82 weeks with 8 hours of play per week as an e.g.

Now this is only around 656 hours of gameplay.

 

This is even worse than mine. TBH I keep it in equally good conditions and I dont think mine has ever been an issue of overheating.

 

I mean I play loads as u can tell so u would expect it but IMO u've been left worse off due to the lesser amount u play and the total hours u've possibly played it.

 

Think my problems almost all related to a breaking down disc drive with the most recent problem IMO being the "solder failure" issue. Have a feeling either theres a hardware issue with either sound card OR graphics card in my console.

 

(A) Never had this problem til now so possibly I have had someone elses faulty Xbox. Which is why MS should replace not palm off another faulty box from perhaps someone who has treated it with less care.

(B) Its still an issue that Microsoft need to deal with.

 

Microsoft are really starting to get to me with their lack of care now.

 

I mean I had the original Xbox and it died once (not long after purchase). This was the only issue I ever had with the old box and when it was replaced it wasn't repaired it was totally replaced. From memory the courier service who took it away had the delivery of a new box on the same day.

 

In 3 years on the old Xbox that was the one and only problem I ever had.

 

I've been gaming since the mid 80's over 10 different formats and I've never had to use a warranty once Except for the 5 occasions related to the Xbox 1 and the 360.

 

Lets be fair and perhaps blame some of the effects as mechanical and disc drives etc etc etc. That wipes off my ownership of Atari's, Snes, Nes and Gamegears.

 

BUT

 

CD consoles and machines (PC's, PS1, PS2 etc) I've never had faults with these consoles.

 

I used to be so pro-Xbox until my issues with my 360.

 

I dont like to be a fanboy but in comparison of 360 to PS3 I used to remark to people that 360 = (Ms buying out lots of top titles, a live system that has been in place for some time and works very effectively and efficiently, plus 360 is the cheaper of the 2)

 

Problem now is I'm waiving more to the PS3 cos

(A) Prices are coming down

 

(B) Whats the use in titles if the machine doesn't work half the time.

 

Not heard half as many problems with the Foreman Grill (Only jokin. PS3)

 

Even if I do get a reponse from Mr Ballmer I think when my 360 is past final warranty I will probably switch back to Sony after if finally dies.

 

and

 

Whether I get a good response from them (New Box) or not (Have another repair, wait until 3 years up, go the Game route) then I think I am still going to compose a blog dedicated to trying to really assess the nature of other peoples problems.

 

Unfortunately at work most things relating to games are locked so theres only so many things I can do. e.g. I can view the Xbox.com forums BUT not post in them. Gonna get my PC at home setup for internet use and do it on there but the reason I mentioned the Xbox forums is I've looked for hardware fault posts / surveys on there before and never seen one.

 

Dont suppose u have a link?

 

The reason I have been chasin MS is one blog I found where a guy did something similar to this. MS saw it and were unhappy about the bad press it was causing and the guy actually managed to get in contact with Peter Moore directly (he was one of the top guys, retired now I think) Well Peter Moore sorted him out a new box.

 

Albino

[frapezlesinge]

Yeah, Fraps cool mate!

 

In my opinion 1500 hours isn't good enough quality either though, manufacturers know some folks will put 10-12 hour shifts in on these things several days a week - they need to be made to withstand that, as every other console past & present seems to be able to manage it without excessive problems.

 

I think I must have a few years on you - been a gamer since the late 70's/early 80's (lot less time for it these days hence the light hours in playtime!) and never had to use a warranty or send in for repairs any game device I've had. The sheer number of these things breaking (even taking into account the medium of the internet for information sharing which obviously wasn't viable in the not too distant past) is pretty damn staggering, and seems far in excess of any other console/games machine problems.

 

My mistake on xbox360.com - it's xbox 360 gamer.com (link to the survey below):

 

The Xbox 360 Hardware Failure Survey // Xbox 360 Gamer Magazine Online

 

 

The 2nd link here is to a break down of the results of the survey:

 

The Xbox 360 Hardware Failure Survey // Xbox 360 Gamer Magazine Online

 

Yeah Peter Moore is the guy who wrote the open letter about the 3 year warranty for the 3 red light general hardware failure that seems to be taking most of the consoles down:

 

Xbox.com | Open Letter From Peter Moore

 

Hope you get yours sorted and it's a new one with the new chipset, and not some refurbished bit of tat that's been round the block more times than a London cab!

[Albino]

I'm back.

 

Right sorry. Left it a bit long.

 

I had a weeks sponsored "Xbox silence" (Dont talk about Xbox etc) for Children in Need.

 

My work colleagues were so happy to not have to hear me talk about the darn thing for a week.

 

On top of that I have been back to my usual busy gaming.

 

Thanks to all the help again from everyone and whaddya know?........

 

MS sorted it all out. No charge AND A BRAND NEW XBOX 360. Letter to confirm its new including a new serial number.

 

MS did sort it out rather than me having to go back to supplier. Cross fingers / touch wood this one will last longer but I dont think I still have faith in the product as a lasting game console.

 

So peeps. Push at Microsoft. Push.

 

As info a good email address to use is either

 

[email protected]

or

[email protected]

 

Also. Had a chat / friend invite off someone who has "read my post online". I am guessin they read it from these forums. Sorry I didn't reply whoever you are but I will hit u up with a chat or msg tonight.

 

Merry Xmas and New Years to everyone.

 

Albino

; )

[Mednabor]

Hello people,

I am rather new to this forum and had noticed this post.

I had been searching on Google to find a post which could inform me, and this has helped a lot, but... not enough.

Let me tell you what has happened to me. lol

Well, i had got an xbox 360 pro on the 6th of February 2007 and had no problems whatsoever up until the 11th of February 2008. I had played approximately 1100 to 1200 hours in total. I had set up a new router with the console and was playing online when all of a sudden it froze on me. This would happen maybe every 3-4 weeks so i done the same as usual, just turn it off and back on again, but the controller didn't connect, either did my 2nd controller or my cousins, but my controllers connected to my cousins console.

So i rang microsoft and spent over 1 and a half hours giving my details to what sounded like a polish / romanian woman which was a nightmare, finally she had all my details, console number etc, etc. She said to me, ' Sorry your console is out of warranty ( by 5 days! ), if you want it fixed i will send a label for UPS to pick it up at a suitable time, but it will cost up to £225'. Naturally i thought, why pay that!?, when a new console costs £200 or so.

A week later when i had some spare time, i went to Argos in cookstown(Northern Ireland), bought an Xbox 360 Arcade console as i could easily take the HDD off my old console.

I got home, set it up and it worked fine. (This was the 24/02/2008(dd/mm/yyyy) when it was bought).

Now on 18/03/2008. The exact same happened. I tuned it on, got into a game and it froze.

I rang microsoft, they sent me a label for UPS but i couldnt get a time to suit for a pickup.

So now i am wondering what i can do about it, get a refund or what?? :???: .

Please help me as i am so angry and frustrated with this whole thing!

Thanks

Mednabor