Vodafon.. anything that could be done?

[itsmeandonlyme]

Hello Buzby,

 

How r u? hope u r well!!

 

it makes me wonder why i haven't received a breakdown in a first place or second ...and 2 letters and 3 emails after..i still do not have it!!!

but i guess it's still early days.....

 

 

regards,

 

Itsme

[itsmeandonlyme]

Just a quick update: NO LAST STETEMENT>>NO BREAKDOWN..

 

 

Amanda send me letter below

The problem is that we are trying to extract information from a system that contains the limited information that we acquired when we acquired the Singlepoint customer base. When you had your account, it was with Singlepoint and Vodafone simply provided the network. This meant that Vodafone provided the call data to Singlepoint but Singlepoint actually created the bills and charges. Their systems were very different from ours so while it may be easy to simply reproduce the copy bills - it is not so easy to actually reproduce the logic or rationale that Singlepoint used to create the information in the bills.

 

 

if its so easy why am i still waiting for the last statement???that wasn't included with others??

 

i am still on their case:)))

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Itsme

[itsmeandonlyme]

Guys!!

I need some help here....still no nothing....

After 4 letters reminders ...

 

Any ideas what should i do next??

 

 

Thank you

 

 

kind regards,

 

 

Itsme

[buzby]

There's little point in banging you hear - if you've asked, then they're still obliged to response and it CAN take ages for non-critical complaints. What is is you want them to do?

[itsmeandonlyme]

i am missing last statements with the charge of more than £700 on it...

and received loads of silly replies from Amanda @ Vodafon and no explanation or breakdown of this sum.....

[buzby]

That's right - Vodafone took over Singlepoint.

 

No reason to tear your hair out - all a statement would do is show you the date and the amount. What you were wanting was a breakdown of charges on the last bill, as to why it was for such a high amount. Once you have this, you will be better placed to decide on the next steps to take.

[itsmeandonlyme]

Thats right, Busby...but this breakdown i had ask in my first request... I had asked her 3 times ...and no reply..

she says thats

Their systems were very different from ours so while it may be easy to simply reproduce the copy bills - it is not so easy to actually reproduce the logic or rationale that Singlepoint used to create the information in the bills.

knowing this and having most of the statements apart from last ones...pointed i need a breakdown...i had done everything...it looks like they haven't sent me a last statement purposely, as i have received all of them from the first date but not the last ones...

 

I agree i do need that breakdown...and she knows it...

[itsmeandonlyme]

bumping this one...as i still do not know what to do!!!

[buzby]

The problem is if they don't supply it - the only action left for you is to raise an action for disclosure, if they don;t have the data (and this appears likely) a SAR would not be constructive. Have you tried phoning her directly?

[itsmeandonlyme]

hey Buzby,

 

 

Will probably do it tomorrow...i think i have her direct work mobile number...

Is it anything in paticular you would advise me to mention?

 

 

 

regards,

 

 

itsme

[buzby]

You only want the info - it's not rocket science. Explain that you just needed to know how the £700 was calculated. Have pen handy (or record the call - even better!). If they cannot, suggest that it is really unfair that they cannot substantiate their claim, and ask her to revise it!

[itsmeandonlyme]

Yesterday , I have left a message on her mobile...Today i have received the email from her:

Thank you for your voicemail yesterday. Unfortunately I was out of the office at an offsite meeting and could not respond.

I understand that you are waiting for a breakdown of the final bill that you paid Singlepoint and I have requested that this be provided from the limited data that we have available. I am expecting copy invoices through our Internal Post from the Quality Assurance Team that I need to review in the light of other information that they have previously provided.

I appreciate that you think that it should be a simple matter for Vodafone Limited to simply extract a copy of the invoices that you were sent by Singlepoint at the time, but unfortunately the archived invoices that we have do not contain a breakdown of the charges which is what you are requesting - they simply provide aggregated or total amounts. This means that we are having to try and extract the underlying billing information on which those totals were based. This is not easy because at the tiime, Vodafone Limited merely provided network data to Singlepoint and they created their own invoices based on their charging regime.

I do appreciate that this has been dragging on for some time, and we are trying our best to get you the information that you have requested in a manner that is intelligible, but we are being hampered by the limitations of the data and systems that we have "inherited" as a result of the Singlepoint acquisition.

I hope to be able to provide you with the relevant information by the middle of next - I am on leave tomorrow (Friday) and at an offsite conference on Monday, so am not back in the Office until Tuesday next week.

 

 

 

Buzby, what do you think???

[buzby]

Just this - irrespective of who owned the company, it does have a legal obligation to retain the data for legal and tax purposes (could be up to 6 years). Whilst you might accept Singlepoint was a separate entity before being subsumed into Vodafone, you have been seriously financially disadvantaged by SinglePoint's actions, and you are being denied the opportunity to inspect the information and be satisfied it is correct. Also, since Singlepoint may have provided adverse credit data to a CRA, and you are unable to have the data verified, you'd like all adverse data added to your account by Singlepoint to be removed immediately as a token of goodwill, and you look forward to the enhanced data as and when it appears.

 

(It then goes without saying you reserve the right to challenge any figures you feel are misleading, unfair or inaccurate).

[itsmeandonlyme]

Brilliantly explained!!!

 

I will wait till the middle of the week and then will send her a letter and include your points above:))))

 

You are such a great help!!!

 

 

Thank you

 

 

Itsme

[buzby]

Anytime! Keep us posted on how it progresses.

[itsmeandonlyme]

Hello Buzby,

 

i had PM you...still no reply....

[itsmeandonlyme]

Hello!!!!

 

I am so angry..she is taking a .... I have received statements today. very dissapointed as the breakdown received is a breakdown in 3 month only:

 

Line rental Charge-unexpired contract 17/08/04-400.41

Line rental Charge-unexpired contract 70.07 CR

Total 330.34

VAT 57.80

Grand total 388.14

 

 

 

Line rental charge- unexpired contract 13/09/04 287.04

VAT 50.23

Grant Total 337.37

 

 

 

This is it...what i had asked is itemised breakdown...is she doing it on purpose? i knew what the charge was for, she sent me dates, but i had asked of a breakdown not in dates. i wanted to know how they came up to the charge!!!!

[buzby]

If that's an itemisation - I'm a monkey's uncle.

 

However, you can still approximate on what they've given you.

 

1) When was the contract taken out and ceased? Is the August 2004 date correct?

 

2) Was there actually two handsets on two contracts, or one contract covering two handsets?

 

To work out what you really owe them, you take the number of months you paid away from your minimum commitment. You then multiply the remaining monthly fee until the contract would have ended to arrive at the amount owing. Do this for each phone. If there is a rebate for the non use of inclusive minutes, this will be in your favour and lower the bill from the original amount due.

 

If these totals exceed the amount being asked, pay need to pay it with good grace, however if your totals are less than what they are charging, write back and say that their charges appear unreasonable, pointing to your calculations and asking for the matter to be looked into again.

[itsmeandonlyme]

Dear buzby,

I was so unhappy when i received those statements i emailed her back asking for refund an telling her that she ia waising my time....

the replies she sent me:

Thank you for your email below. I am very sorry that you are dissatisfied with my response to your enquiries and complaints. I have forwarded your email of complaint to our Senior Customer Relations Team for them to review.

 

I have been chasing the Department that retrieve the relevant information from your former Singlepoint account and they have advised that they are sending me the relevant invoices for me to send to you. They have sent me them again and they arrived at my Department today. I will be sending them out by post today so you should receive them tomorrow.

 

There are two elements to your complaint:

 

1. The default that was placed on your account and which was removed in May 2007. The default was removed as a matter of goodwill not because it should not have been recorded. It is clear from our records that you failed to pay invoices for February, March and April 2004 as they fell due and that final payment was made more than three months after the invoices had fallen due. The default was removed because a) the amount of the default had been recorded incorrectly (we removed rather than reduce that default) and b) your previous good payment history. Vodafone Limited does not therefore accept that the default was recorded illegitimately but rather as a matter of goodwill have removed it.

 

2. The fact that part of the amount paid off was for £725.75 which related relates to contract charges. These were for early termination of your contract and are highlighted in pink on the statements/invoices sent to you today. Vodafone takes the view that such charges are legitimate and lawful under the airtime agreement and therefore formed a legitimate part of the amount that Singlepoint charged under your airtime agreement. We will therefore not be refunding this amount to you as they are lawful charges. The fact that we have struggled to provide copies of the relevant statements has not prejudiced you to the value of £725.75. You would have been provided with these statements at the time that they were originally produced - they were therefore not hidden charges applied to your account at that time.

 

I understand that a lot of consumers are now seeking to challenge the lawfulness of the early termination charges under such contracts but at this time Vodafone takes the view that they are legitimate and therefore will not refund such sums until required by law to do so.

 

I note your intention to complain to the Information Commissioner on this matter. If you decide to pursue that course of action, then I will obviously respond to any enquiries that they might make.

 

 

 

When i asked her to give me am itemised breakdown

 

Thank you for your email below. I have again asked the relevant Team to provide a breakdown or an explanation for the charges on your statements. As I have previously explained, retrieving the underlying data on which the bills are based is impossible given the amount of time that has elapsed and the fact that that information was previously retained by Singlepoint.

 

The Data Protection Act 1998 for which I am responsible gives people the right to have copies of the personal data that is held about them. We retain the copy bills for statutory tax purposes but that law does not require us to retain all the underlying data. I have therefore provided the information that you have requested ie the copy bills. They are accurate mirror image of the bills that you would have been provided with at the time. As they were not presented as itemised charges at the time, they will not appear as itemised charges on the copy.

 

I do appreciate your frustation at the fact that we have been unable to provide you - so far - with the breakdown that you are requesting. I have asked our Senior Customer Service Manager to address this matter and your dissatisfaction with the service that you have experienced so far.

 

 

I have dicided not to bother with her anymore...and send a formal complaint to CEO

 

I will try and culculate as you advised.

is it any regulations that i can use? as the defaul that they had cleared was recorded for a wrong amount almost £2400 and they failed to remove it after it has been paid for nearly 3 years...

 

 

Thank you

 

Kind regards,

 

 

 

Itsme

[itsmeandonlyme]

If that's an itemisation - I'm a monkey's uncle.

 

However, you can still approximate on what they've given you.

 

1) When was the contract taken out and ceased? Is the August 2004 date correct?

 

2) Was there actually two handsets on two contracts, or one contract covering two handsets?

 

To work out what you really owe them, you take the number of months you paid away from your minimum commitment. You then multiply the remaining monthly fee until the contract would have ended to arrive at the amount owing. Do this for each phone. If there is a rebate for the non use of inclusive minutes, this will be in your favour and lower the bill from the original amount due.

 

If these totals exceed the amount being asked, pay need to pay it with good grace, however if your totals are less than what they are charging, write back and say that their charges appear unreasonable, pointing to your calculations and asking for the matter to be looked into again.

 

 

Dear buzby,

 

the first invoice was from 17/04/03 account closed on the 11/09/2004. Account paid in full.

 

It was 2 handsets and 2 contracts. The claim is only for one hadset and one contract. The bill of £653.62 was issued on the 17/02/04 which wasn't paid. Line rental £28.92 and itemised billinf £1.70 each month+ Phone for you Life( i believe its an insurance i wasn't awear about £3.40 each month). From Aipril 2004 till closer of the account i haven't used phone at all!!!

 

Now, if i terminated the contract say in Augest 2004 and the contract was till April 2005 that 7 times £28.92 thats £202.44. I paid in June, July and Augest. On the statement they sent they are addinfg charge that officially has been paid

Line rental charge- unexpired contract 13/09/04 287.04

VAT 50.23

Grant Total 337.37

 

 

 

So i believe this is not real itemised statement as by that time the amount was paid on the 9th of Augest.

 

I seriously believe they had done it last minute as the itemised statements are so simple, i can do in by copiing the singlepoint logo...no ref ...no nothing...

 

 

Buzby, i will write to them this Monday, is it anything else you would like me to bring into letter? Anything about wrongly recorded default for the wrong amount with a failier to remove it?

 

 

Thank you so much.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Itsme

[fuzzywuzzy]

Hi itsmeandonlyme

My first post

Just read your trouble with Vodafone, i have the same problem, 1 account with single point and 1 with voda, but i am positive the delaying tactics have nothing to do with which compnay you were with.

 

Its taken me ( est) 9 months to even get a response to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and this was with them taking the £10.

 

Once i did get a letter from Amanda Chandler she quoted the letter i sent was a template from the consumeractiongroup and used for reclaiming bank charges, she has assumed in that case i was looking to reclaim charges and something could be arranged but if not she would challenge any legal process strongly.

 

My immediate thought was "How rude and how presumptuous" i have had it confirmed by consumerdirect that she has crossed a phew rules in her response which could be seen as trying to discuss my aco**** without with out actually having to complete my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) which would be extremely unfair as i am in no position to see how my account stands.

 

I had to reply advising of the procedures they should now be following when having an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) presented to them and that i was concerned it was necessary for me to have to do this.

 

I requested identification and contact details of any agencies used in collecting on my account, along with an itemised breakdown of statement (regarding the debit not the itemized phone calls.)

 

I received a confussing statement that has figures on it but there is no way easy way to separate the agents fees, and its all printed this way on purpose. Also i recieved no identification for communication with the "agent" Westcott..

 

I also received a very starched letter regarding refusal to remove default, although i have asked for the basis of the default i have never requested its removal (again assumptions.)

 

So it does seem many things can be sent from vodafone but none that full fill an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). It could be that Amanda Chandeler could be alone in receiving many S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) requests as she sounded extremely frustrated on the phone, possibly a days training regarding the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) would not go amiss, after all her position is managing Data control.

 

I hope you have more progress than i have.

 

also can i ask any one reading am I able to contact Westcott with no account number ( the collections on the statement seem to be allocated in house, as if i am right..and the debit was sold or farmed out would'nt the payments show money paid to voda from agency and not money out to agency?)

 

From what i can see so far there may be £120 paid to agency and that was after I had cleared the debit to voda in bulk. The further moneu i paid went straight out to the agency.

 

any tips for me to take on westcott would be usefull

 

Thanks.

 

F Wuzzy

[Chris_w]

Fuzzywuzzy try a CCA request if no agreement then debt unenforcable

[Human Writes]

Fuzzywuzzy try a CCA request if no agreement then debt unenforcable

 

As has been noted elsewhere on the site and in this thread, Mobile phone contracts are service agreements not credit agreements and are not subject to the Consumer Credit Act. If you quote CCA at the network you'll get nowhere and look silly.

 

If both posters are sure that the figures they are quoting and have notified the credit agencies of are a mistake/error you could try sending them a Section 10 notification under the Data Protection Act.

 

This section of the Act allows you to prevent them from processing data which will cause you damage and distress, i.e. incorrect entries on your credit file. Set out in detail why you believe the figures to be incorrect and want them removing and clearly label the letter as a Section 10 notification under the act. Voda have to respond to a Section 10 notification within 21 days (this is a timescale set out in the act) along with the the action they intend to take i.e. removal of the data or a refusal to remove the data.

 

If they are refusing to to comply with your request under Section 10 to have the data removed they have to justify their reason for refusing to do so. Make sure that you advise that you want a full breakdown and detailed explanation along with supporting evidence to as to why they disagree with your conclusions, that way they can't just send you a standard response along the lines of "we believe the data to be correct so were not removing it, but if we figure out it's wrong later on we will remove it". A notification along these lines is a Data Controllers worst nightmare, it forces them to justify their position or have the data removed and they have to do it within a fairly short timescale.

 

As they seem to be giving both of you the runaround make sure that anything sent is sent Special Delivery or Recorded Delivery, if you don't get a response you can then refer them to the Information Commissioners Office for breaching the Act as you have evidence of their non compliance, you can also apply via a County Court to have the Data removed and possibly for compensation although this is slightly trickier as you'd have to demonstrate to the court that the data was incorrect and according to the Information Commissioners Office's legal guidance on the act to get compensation you'd have to be able to prove your losses.

 

 

itsmeandonlyme I'd also be tempted to suggest that as they have failed to respond to your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'s in a satisfactory manner and have recorded incorrect information on your credit file for years you want any entries from Voda and Singlepoint removing to prevent further action. They probably won't agree but it's worth a try.

 

Section 10 of the Act is available below:

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Hope this helps.

[fuzzywuzzy]

Sounds like A Plan I'm reading through their last letter and apparently 1 of my contracts started 27th March 2004 and ended 27th March 2004, they can't even type accurate details? i think you mean 2005 Vodafone pull your finger out

 

and sending me this

 

balance =£250.44

line rental £45

cheque admin £10

total £306

 

" Well done Voda, It Does exactly what you wished for, it gains me no intelligence as to the workings of your statements ie My Account!"

 

She Writes My contracts finished in 2004 and 2005 all monies were paid, the niggling thing now is the money I paid for the extra add on =agency "Westcot" seems like it could be the equal to what i was defaulted for, so I am hoping if I am to reclaim money paid to Westcot then the balance the default was placed against should be corrected. I am yet to find out what sum the entry was made against. would also have to cross reference dates of Default entry to allocation to Westcot

 

They give you minimal data... as it is at the moment I am finding it hard to identify on my statement what is debit and what is extra. the dates are also all over the place and not in order??

 

(just found some dates, westcot obtained the account 27th April apparently the same day the default notice was sent, but it also states as we had no response from the default notice we sent the account to Westcott, (but the default letter and transfer were made on the same day?) the default was added to file 11th May. any holes in this some one can find. apart from how can i reply to a letter not yet posted let alone received???????????????????

[fuzzywuzzy]

hi itsonlymeagain

I have tried to copy my statement out i hope this works

 

( it didnt :-( ) sorry

figures dont stay in coloumns once you click save.

 

would like to know if you got the same sort of statement i got.