Delboytrotter v BOS

[georgel29]

i was claiming for £4400,got back £4000 +£120 court cousts

[maroondevo52]

Well done, at what stage did they make you the offer?

[MARTIN3030]

Threads merged.

 

Can I just clarify that our information is that the Judges in Scotland will no longer allow multiple claims on the same account.

I contacted the FOS to raise the issue and was informed that they would be happy to assist,and have the powers to order a repayment of up to 100k.

It must be stressed however that the FOS will not become involved in claims that have started litigation,and that you must be able to show that you have exhausted all expected complaints procedures with your bank and still remain unhappy.

[delboytrotter]

i think i have exhausted all avenues with the bank including now the letter explaining i will not accept £480 and telling them i am off to court....do you think a summary cause will do the job? or should i agree to small claims of £750. if i lose i dont want to be lumbered with loads of charges but i dont mind some.

[georgel29]

I actually waited the full 8 weeks,as they asked,also,i gave them 28 days from Prelim and LBA,but i was a bit scared of going to court.The 8 weeks were up on fridai 16 march,got letter fri morn,saing they are stiill dealing with my claim.

I got ****ed off and filed MCOL on friday about 12ish,after I submited my claim,within 5 min the phone went,it was the bank offering £3000,I said no as claimed in court,and they offered £4000.Phoned MCOL and asked to drop the case,and tehy refunded my money as well!!!!

[texel]

Hi thanks for your email. Going the summary case route is just as easy as going the small claims route. You can down load the forms you need ( I went the Scottish route as I live there) from the Scottish courts small claims forms go through that and eventually you get to the summary clase papers and you just follow what they ask for. With regard to court that is no problem because you do every thing yourself just the same as small claim proceedure there is no difference. When you send in the papers to the court they will return them to you with a court date etc then you have to give them to a sheriff officer to present them to the bank;. The costs depends on the amount claimed The most I paid for £ 1500 was £ 35.00 which I get back when BOS settled. I had to go to the court three time the first the bank turned out to have lost the papers and asked for a two week continuance which I told the judge I did not agree with! He was a terrible judge the worst I have ever had. He gave the bank two weeks. The second time the lawyer on behalf of BOS wanted to settle. I wanted more because I had an idea I could get a whack for travelling and loss of income. I wanted £ 150.00 per day. The judge thought I was dreaming as it is the clerk of the court who decides the amount. We went for another three weeks. I lowered my charges to £ 75.00 per day now three days and I wanted a slug for stress etc. ( by the way I had a different judge on each day all were fine except the first one) When I got to the court I checked with a chap who was organising papers in the court room to m\ake sure the clerk had all my paperwork for my claims etc. He came back and said all the papers were there. When the case was called. The judge never looked at the paperwork and was muttering about extending the case for another couple of weeks. I immediately exploded and said I would settle for the £ 1600+ to avoid another day at court. I am doing another summary case against B OS and this time I am including £ 300 for distresscausing illness in the first place so will see how that goes. Let me know if I can give you any further help Best of luck

[delboytrotter]

I have filled out the paperwork for the summary claim using the following,

 

The pursuer claims from the defender the sum of £1068.00 with interest on that sum at the rate of 8% annually from the date of service for each charge together with the expenses of bringing this action.

The details of the claim are: The claimant, DELBOY has held a bank account with the defendant on or before the 3rd of January 2002, the account number being XXXXXXXX. The defendant deducted from the account various amounts of money in penalty charges during the period 03/01/02 to 16/10/06. These were in respect of charges as notified (levied if a direct debit payment or cheque was returned unpaid because of insufficient funds). The claimant contends that these charges were legally unenforceable and the claimant is demanding repayment of the money. The defendant has not repaid these monies due (copies of correspondence can be provided). No admissions are made by the claimant as to the incorporation of any term into the contract between claimant and the defendant purporting to entitle the defendant to levy these charges. If the defendant is able to establish the contract did contain such terms, the claimant will contend that these charges are unenforceable at law, being penalty charges designed to penalise the claimant for breach of contract and generate profit for the defendant rather than being liquidated damages designed to compensate the defendant for the actual loss occurring to the defendant as a result of the breach. The claimant claims from the defendant a sum equivalent to the amount unlawfully debited to the claimants account in the period 03/01/02 to 16/10/06. The sums debited from the account are detailed in the attached schedule. The contractual provision that permits the defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act (1977) and Common Law.

The defender has a branch of business in the DELBOY Area and therefore it is under the jurisdiction of this court.

Using my own details etc, i would like to serve this on the Bank of Scotland branch in my home town, is that ok or do i have to get it served at the edinburgh head office, i have done one small claim before and i served the paperwork on the local office so i feel it will be ok do the same here..i have also attached a list of the charges but i expect it is ok that the court works out the interest for me if i win.

 

i am ready to hand it all in on Friday as i told them in my letter, is there anything i should add first or does it look ok

 

Can you also tell me what elas i can put on my shedule of charges for the cost of court action/sheriff officer/letter writing/ etc etc as i wish to include these also

 

Thanks and wish me luck

[texel]

Hi, I think you are being a bit long winded. Also I heard somewhere it is not a good idea to use the word claiment. Here is what I put in all my claims. This is the last summary clause case just filed; ( on section 7 state details of claim) The pirsuer has had a bank account with Bank of Scotland for many years. uring the latter four years there have been a number of high charges because of returned cheques and overdraft limits etc. I have tried to have these charges refunded to no avail. Therefore this action is necessary. This is a consumer action therefore Perth Sheriff Court has jurisdiction.

 

 

See seperate sheet ( this is the spread sheet with all the ammounts charged etc.)

For credit card cos. The pursuer has had a credit card with ----- for several years. During this time there have been a number of high charges because of late payments and over limit etc. These charges levied against my accounts allegedly connected with "costs involved" constitute " penalty charges". The amount bear no relation to the actual damages incurred. I have tried to have these charges refnded to no avail. Therefore this action is necessary. This is a consumer contract therefore Perth Sheriff Court has judisdiction.

 

 

You have to file the case with whatever court you decide then sheriff officer has to do the serving you can't do it yourself. On small claims the court does the serving. Hope this is of help let me know if i can be of further help

[delboytrotter]

HI Texel

Have you won your claims to date without court?

[delboytrotter]

The details of the claim are: The pursuer, DEL(horses are the only fools)BOY has held a bank account with the defendant on or before the 3rd of January 2002, the account number being XXXXXXXX. The defendant deducted from the account various amounts of money in penalty charges during the period 03/01/02 to 16/10/06. These were in respect of charges as notified (levied if a direct debit payment or cheque was returned unpaid because of insufficient funds). The pursuer contends that these charges were legally unenforceable and the pursuer is demanding repayment of the money. The defendant has not repaid these monies due (copies of correspondence can be provided). No admissions are made by the pusuer as to the incorporation of any term into the contract between pursuer and the defendant purporting to entitle the defendant to levy these charges. If the defendant is able to establish the contract did contain such terms, the pursuer will contend that these charges are unenforceable at law, being penalty charges designed to penalise the pursuer for breach of contract and generate profit for the defendant rather than being liquidated damages designed to compensate the defendant for the actual loss occurring to the defendant as a result of the breach. The pursuer claims from the defendant a sum equivalent to the amount unlawfully debited to the pursuers account in the period 03/01/02 to 16/10/06. The sums debited from the account are detailed in the attached schedule. The contractual provision that permits the defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act (1977) and Common Law.

The defender has a branch of business in the Dingwall Area and therefore it is under the jurisdiction of this court.

OK this is it i think, will someone have a look and let me know if it is ok,

Does anyone know if it is ok to serve on the local branch as if not it means finding a sheriff officer in Edinburgh (a long way to go )

I am keeping it simple i am not adding the interest for them they can do that and i am not ading up the charges i will see if i win and ask the clerk or judge to add the costs involved

My shedule will be basic just adate and the ammount and at the top CHARGEs AS NOTIFIED

Hope this is ok

[texel]

Ok you are still making this long winded. Why do you not copy what I sent you? it works and is short and to the point. What court are you using? go and see them they will help you and the folks are very helpful. When I started That is where I got a lot of help. With regard to the address to file against you can do either your local branch or where you send the payments or Edinburgh. That is where I do my summary cases. I( can give you an address and also a sheriff officer. But I would check your yellow pages you might get a sheriff officer closer to home. You don't have to go to Edinburgh it is all d one by the sheriff officer. I would add all the amounts claimed and the interest you have been charged not the 8% that will be done by the court or the sheriff officer when the case is filed. I am assuming you have got all the charges on a spread sheet. There are examples ( templates ) in the library on this site.The only time I had to go to court was the first summary case against BOS when they had lost the papers!!! all the rest have been settled out of court some up to the last day before court

[delboytrotter]

The pursuer DELBOY has had a bank account with Bank of Scotland for many years. The bank account number XXXXXXXX has Between 03/01/02 and 16/10/06 had a number of high charges because of returned direct debits and charges etc. I have tried to have these charges refunded to no avail. Therefore this action is necessary. This is a consumer action brought against Bank of Scotland who have a business operating in Dingwall therefore it is under the jurisdiction of this court.

 

Is this better, do i need to mention why i think they are unlawful or anything like that, or can i leave it as is..I am using Dingwall Sheriff court and i have basically added up all the charges and i have not added the 8% or the court charges...can we get away with charging postage etc and writing time or am i pushing my luck.

Cheers

[delboytrotter]

I noticed tonight that the BOS have transfered £480 to my bank account, what do i do now, i have written to them telling them i would not accept £480 and still they transfer..This is what i wrote to them

 

Thank you for your letter dated 14th March 2007 initiated from Mr Dewhirst at your customer relations department. I respectfully decline your offer of Full and Final settlement and in respect of that offer please ensure you DO NOT credit my account with the £480.00 offered.

 

I shall be commencing court action on 26th March 2007 for the full amount claimed; I will also initiate a full complaint to the Office of Fair Trading. If at any time you wish to stop this action you should settle this claim in full including court costs and interest.

 

Mr Dewhirst also states in his letter that if anymore charges are applied to my account that the bank will not return them and may close the account contrary to the advice given by the Financial Ombudsman, I will reclaim at my discretion any further unlawful charges applied to my account regardless of the reason they are applied.

 

I wish to stress that I do not accept your offer as Full and Final settlement and if you transfer money to my account this should not be viewed as my acceptance. I hereby authorise you to remove this sum accordingly if or when you transfer it unless you are happy for it to be a part settlement until the court case is heard.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

Was i correct, i have all the papers ready for court so should i call the Bank or just ignore the payment and carry on regardless...I was hoping to get the papers in tomorrow but it can wiat till monday i suppose..not sure if it worth my while calling them to see if they up the settlement and if i call them what do i ask for, all the charges and interest or all the charges and some interest and recompense for my trouble or all the charges and some interest, is there a rule to these things

They just confuse me

[delboytrotter]

SUrprise Surprise, on my way to the court today i called Bank of Scotland as they had paid the £480.00 offer into my account and i just wanted to clarify that i was not happy about taking it so i would accept it as part paymetn only as per my letter which they did not get yet...Long Story Short they affered me £828 which i duly turned down as i was due more and interest, low and behold the women i spoke to (who was really nice and helpful) told em that was all that was on the screen for the last 6 years, then informed me if i had all the dates and amounts then fax it to them and they would look at it.

My guess is they are trying there hand so i printed out all the details for the last 6 years and faxed it to them today, if they pay the interest and the amount or charges i will take it. i have given them 7 days

 

What happens with interest, i am fair enough to charge it now as they have taken 9 weeks to deal with this

[delboytrotter]

Is it normal for the banks to argue about the amount of charges, they are offering me very close to the amount i am claiming from my statments but they are not offering me any interest or the exact amount i am claiming, they state that their system can calculate the charges and i am claiming to much, the financial ombudsman is 10 days away from launching an investigation also as they have taken so long to sort it out, i recieved a letter from the FOS stating that the 8 weeks had passed and the BOS wouldbe given another 14 days only....what next! i fear that i may have mde a mistake in my calculations and i am also unsure if i should hold out for interest or even if i am entiteled to interest....

[delboytrotter]

Has anyone gone the distance with the FOS yet, i am told they have never had to investigate yet, but mine is getting close, my bank has 10 days until the FOS starts to investigate, The FOS wrote to me asking if i have recieved the banks final response as the bank had not even bothered getting in touch with them (ha ha)

So it might be a trial yet, i am under the impresion that once the next 10 days go i dont have to accept anything until after the FOS has investigated, i would have been to court by now if i wasnt so busy...never mind maybe another learnign curve

[texel]

all depends on the difference beetween what you are seekinjg and what they are offering. Remember they do employ time wasting tactics and they do manage to get some people to settle for lower amounts. I would recheck my figures and tell the bank if they will not pay you what you want you will be very happy to meet their representative in court. This has always worked with me. Good luck keep me informed

[delboytrotter]

Well the difference is about £60 but i have rechecked my figures and it seems that i am correct unless there is a previous refund which i cant find, obviously they are not offering me any interest or the likes, and they have kindly informed me that if they are correct it will be thrown out of court,

If they are correct then i have to accept it dont I, if i dont then there could be problems...i really thought the FOS was going to get involved this time just for the sake of it.

[texel]

when you made your spreadsheet did you have for example date of offence, charge, interest, ( this what you have been charged % on your statement) days since offence, amount (you are charging) If that is so and you are correct on your figures. and the bank will pay the interest. You add the 8% when you fill up the court papers. Hope this makes sence to you if not get back to me

[delboytrotter]

It does kind of make sense, but i thought i was only actually entittled to the interest if it went to court! i have £370 in interest which i put on the second letter and i have carried through all other letter which was calculated from the date each charge was applied, Am i correct to hold out for the interest and will the FOS also expect the bank to pay me the interest as they are only 9 days away from launching investigation (which might be fun) i have contact from a fairly resonable person at the Bank of Scotland and she has even allowed me to email her which i have done, as the FOS are now demanding the bank sort this out in the next 9 days i believe they are doing all they can to sort it out but they are in no way offering any interest, i thought i might offer them a chance to end it now by fofgeting hte £60 difference but adding the interest and telling them if it is paid in 7 days then i would inform the Ombudsman.

What do you think

[delboytrotter]

Too make it absolutely clear i am charging for bank charges only no overdraft charges or interest but i have worked out that if i charge the 8% interest then i am due another £350

Do i hold of for the interest on the charges also, i realise that if it goes to court i can add on the interest but can i get the interest if they decide to settle before i have started court action.

[delboytrotter]

Yesterday was the last day for a response from the Bank of Scotland, the FOS had informed them that 12 weeks was too long to expect a customer to wait more than 2 weeks ago and they still never responded. I have emailed the Finacial Ombudsman Service that i am now very unhappy that the bank have even refused their attempts at refunding my money or providing an explanation as to why they have not issued me a refund. I expect to hear back tomorrow at some point but i have also said i now expect a full investigation by the FOS into the Bank of Scotland charges which may be a bit of a laugh, i am told the FOS can now carry out an investigation as the bank have missed the final deadline, Does anyone know what happens next....i am happy to do without my charges for an investigation instead and in that vain i have made it clear that i now expect some form of damages or compensation also, not sure what i will get now.

I am still holding out for my full amount of chagres though and interest and damages now.....

Any ideas,

I really dont have the time to dedicate to court action for another 2 weeks yet!!!!!

But if it is not investigated or under way at least by then i will start the court action.

Anyone see the brennan article

 

That man has some GUTS!

[Dusary]

Mmmm! Interesting thread.

 

I'm still looking around to see if anyone has charges as high as mine (£25,000) spread over 2 HBoS accounts over 6 years.

 

Dusary

[delboytrotter]

I am not being funny but with that many charges i would employ a solicitor, there is at least one other person i think that has had charges that high and i think another member has destroyed a bank solicitor with a case like that

 

Good Luck,

[Dusary]

Thanks for that.

 

One of the *wise ones* here has already suggested that that would be the wisest course of action.

 

However, if I managed to get a PO Box Number in England - that might make it easier!!!!!!!