I owe around £500 to my local council in council tax arrears - balliffs conduct

[Thermometer]

It also allows them to enter your home if it's the last address they have on file for the debtor, even if you tell them they don't live there.

 

If what you are saying is correct - that is outrageous! I can see a whole industry growing up where people will pay someone to research the credit history of people living in a property that they intend to buy!

[streetgang]

Thanks everyone, will let you know how it goes - I had no idea that the bailiffs legal footing was so tenious !

Cheers

 

Harry.

[tiglet]

It is that tenuous - they really ahve no rights unless you let them in, leave doors or windows unlocked or have a car on the street.

 

And you can always complain about their behaviour to the court, possibly losing them their license if they really behave out of order.

[PizzaMaker]

Council tax, oh dear.

 

The reasonable times to knock on peoples door is between 6am and 9pm.

 

Are you 100% sure that these are the times bailiffs are allowed to visit? I ask for a specific reason.

Many thanks

Spandavia

 

Below has been pulled of the insolvency website.

 

"Can a bailiff call at night or on a weekend?

Only bailiffs collecting rent are obliged to call between sunrise and sunset, all other bailiffs can call at any time of day or night. However most bailiffs should call at a 'reasonable' time, either during normal office hours or between 8.00 a.m. or 8 p.m."

 

I know that this extended to 6am to 9pm.

[PizzaMaker]

A lot of enforcement agencies now working on behalf of certain clients have to a tracking system in their vehicle, so the client or company can see what time they were at the address. Other companies have hand helds with a tracking system to see what time fees are being applied.

 

I know with TfL that no fee or visit can be applied before 6am.

[Bailiffchaser]

No rights until they get in. Thanks to the new law being pushed through this will be a thing of the past. Bailiffs will be able to force entry as and when they fancy.

[davefirewalker]

Anyone who hasnt done so should sign the petitions and write to their MP

 

I'm dealing with a bunch of unsavoury so+so's at the moment. havent let them in so I am in control....this could change though. I have been in the other position when I didnt know my rights and they walked all over me!!

They kept putting the repayments up and up until I couldnt afford it. then they wanted the whole lot in one go !!! B*****ds.

 

Dave

[whatamuppet]

Stumbled across this rather interesting site whilst researching for my law paper and no offence to u guys but who on earth do you get your legal advice from??

 

The law clearly (or not so clearly more like) allows:

 

A bailiff can call at any 'reasonable' time - there is no legal definition of reasonable so therefore a call a 5.50am is fine. The National Standards do outline times however these are only guidlines.

 

A bailiff can incurr 'reasonable' van fees - again there is no legal definition of reasonable, it is in the individual council guidlines as to what non-statutory fees can be added,

 

What do you have against walking possession agreements? they are there for your benefit as well as the bailiffs, they give you a further 14 days to pay. if you refuse to sign it the bailiff is well within his rights to remove goods there and then!

 

even if you dont allow the bailiff entry he can still levy on your car/garden furniture/contents of shed etc. common practice is for a bailiff to clamp your car and ask for payment. and once he has clamped it he is entitled to add further costs.

 

if you dont own enough valuables for to cover the debt or refuse entry etc. the bailiffs will simply write to your employer and set up an AOE which your employer is legally obliged to do and then your employer is also entitled to charge YOU £1 admin costs everytime they send a payment to the bailiffs!!!

 

 

my advice............pay it as soon as possible

 

if you pay it before it gets to the bailiffs then you wont have to deal with them and am i right in thinking that the statutory fees for bailiffs are being increased soon?

[tiglet]

Dear whatamuppet

 

I think you have missed the point of this website - people posting on here generally have got to the stage of bailiffs because they are in financial distress, so paying before the bailiffs come round is not always an option. Debt can make people bury their head in the sands through fear - this site is trying to help people feel empowered and deal with their debt, but in some cases, this only happens once an extreme stage has been reached. part of helping is dealing with the fees and charges bailiffs and other institutions add which cause people's debts to spiral out of control.

 

In terms of van fees, I'm sorry, but they are not designated by council guidelines but rather than by what is "reasonable" e.g. bailiff sticks on a charge for £100 when he could have hired a van locally for £40, therefore his fee is deemed to be unreasonable.

 

As to where we get our legal information from, well, there are members of this site who are qualified lawyers; people give benefit of their wisdom once they have proceeded down the legal route; people work for CAB etc. Basically, it's an emalgamation - not everyone agrees on everything, but if there really is a problem on a point of law, there are moderators and site-helpers you can PM for assistance.

 

And yes, I believe most people will understand that guidelines are not the same as a legal ruling or statute law. However, if bailiffs do not adhere to the guidelines (and therefore best practice) they can be reported back to the court which issued whatever legal warrant, liability order etc. it was and can revoke their certification.

 

Hope that clarifies things for you.

[davefirewalker]

he cannot levy if he has not peaceably entered the premises

he cannot levy on the garden shed...only its contents and he cant break into the shed to find out whats in it. he cannot break in (yet) to take goods he has not levied on. he cannot levy through the window.

 

Once you have signed a walking possession they can screw you....I know! they keep asking for more and more untill you cant pay. then what happens!!!

 

Sometimes people cannot genuinely pay usually because of circumstances beyond their control. usually something to do with the banks being a**holes

 

once debts start to spiral out of control they get bad quickly.... and who can get their hands on £800 quickly to pay a bailiff off (who wont accept installments).

 

you obviously havent researched this site very well at all. There is all sorts of misery being perpetrated by these people.

 

I am not going to get drawn into a slanging match so this will be my last word on the subject to you. you sound as though you come from a slightly priveleged background where you have never had to deal with this sort of thing.

 

I hope that one day you have to and your words will come back to haunt you

 

Dave

[Thermometer]

I think whatamuppet shows a great deal of understanding of the issues.

 

whatamuppet talks of Walking Possession Agreements being to the benefit of both the debtor and bailiff - he is right THEY ARE and he is the first person on this forum that I have seen say this! Of course, if a bailiff does not have an opportunity to levy goods that is best for the debtor and the handling of the debt would be passed back (to the Council in this case).

 

But, if goods are validly levied (for whatever reason) then any debtor should enter into such an agreement so they keep the right to use the goods! If a debtor does not sign a Walking Possession agreement after goods are levied the bailiff can take the goods there and then!

 

Unfortunately, so many knowledeable people leave these forums simply because they are attacked for their greater knowledge and understanding which does not fit in with the general culture of 'attack the bailiff no matter what'!

 

I have learnt from this forum but only by questioning any 'advice' that is given and looking at the useful links that some posters provide and recognising that a few posters do really know what they are talking about!

[whatamuppet]

In terms of van fees, I'm sorry, but they are not designated by council guidelines but rather than by what is "reasonable" e.g. bailiff sticks on a charge for £100 when he could have hired a van locally for £40, therefore his fee is deemed to be unreasonable.

 

The council acts in the publics interest (although it may not seem like it) and would not sign a contract that had excessive fees in it...therefore they stipulate what they believe to be reasonable. it is down to bailiff firms competeing with each other that the prices do not escalate further.

 

With regard hiring a van for £40, yes you could but this would not cover the running costs, bailiff wages, office staff wages, etc. also in the hour that the bailiff is at your house he could be elsewhere actioning more profitable cases.

 

he cannot levy if he has not peaceably entered the premises

he cannot levy on the garden shed...only its contents and he cant break into the shed to find out whats in it. he cannot break in (yet) to take goods he has not levied on. he cannot levy through the window.

 

I have obviously hit a nerve with you Dave but would like to highlight the following.

 

1. Generally people dont keep their cars in there houses. therefore mr bailiff does not have to gain entry (peaceful or not) to the premises to clamp it.

 

2. if your shed isnt fixed feature ie doesnt have foundations he can uplift. and how many people lock their sheds.

 

3. i dont doubt that debts build up quickly, i have had experiences with debts and unlike you suggest being brought up on a sh*thole of a council estate is not having a priviledged background, last time i checked!

 

4. i am entitled to my opinion but thank you for your views.

 

thank you thermometer..... i am wondering however is not allowing the bailiff to levy in the first instance that beneficial, if say the bailiff wasnt able to obtain an SWP on the 1st and 2nd visit he would then visit with the van looking to clamp etc all the time the fees would be adding up. If then the bailiff was able to make contact he isnt going to let you have arrangements, he wont trust you and you have had a few ££££ added to you debt.

 

Also when cases are returned to the council i think (but dont qoute me) that the bailiffs costs will still be on thedebt because the bailiffs have put in the hours trying to collect this money and he is legally entitled to collect his fees, isnt he?

 

A lot of the the law regulating bailiffs is ancient anyway (some of it around the 1600's) so i think a revamp is a good thing.

 

also in relation to things you can levy on.... i have found that a bailiff is legally entitled to uplift your pets!!!??? i am going to bring my dog inside now so it doesnt get clamped!

[Thermometer]

??

[Guest Herbie]

In answer to the last 4 posts:

 

VAN FEES

I am personally aware of the bailiff Contracts of over a third of all local authorities, and I can assure you that with regards to Van Fees or Reasonable Costs most DO NOT provide a figure. Almost all of the contracts refer quite rightly to the relevant Statutory Instruments for charges.

 

WALKING POSSESSION.

 

Signing a WP does not give you a further 14 days to pay the sum due. The agreed time to pay is down entirely to whatever can be agreed with the bailiff. We have had clients paying a debt over the maximum of 10 months and with one particular bailiff insisting on just 3 days.

 

A Walking Possession can be seen as providing a breathing space if you cannot pay immediately, and after all the goods remain on your premises , so where is the problem......

 

to levy on goods the bailiff needs to first gain peaceful entry into your home. He will then list items on the Walking Possession whch you will need to sign. Those goods are now in the legal custody of the bailiff, who can return ..and if need be force entry into your home to remove those goods. I have never heard yet of any bailiff who agrees a time scale in which to pay UNTIL such time as he has first levied, and this is certainly a problem, because, after signing a WP the bailiff can insist on the debt being paid within a very short time frame and if you cannot keep to this arrangement, the bailiff returns with a van to remove the goods with the additional van fee added.

 

On the CAG website yesterday we had the story of a bailiff charging a fee of £190 for attending to remove goods where a WP had been signed and monthly payments were being made......the FINAL payment had however been 3 days late !!

 

So, I'm sorry , my advice would be if possible to avoid signing a WP.

 

The earlier comment that if you don't sign a WP the bailiff is within his rights to remove goods can ONLY APPLY if he has gained "peaceful entry" into your home.

 

ATTACHMENT OF EARNINGS ORDER.

 

This is a legal docement whereby your employer must deduct a Statutory amount from your wages to pay the arrears of Council Tax. The majority of Local Authorities do not tend to like doing these for a variety of reasons. Many people change employers quite frequently etc, but more importantly unless your NET pay is in excess of £1400 per month, the debt can take a quite considerable time to repay. That is why the local authority would prefer to use bailiffs to collect the debt sooner.

 

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the LA has to apply for an Attachment of Earnings Order....not the bailiff....

[Thermometer]

??

[rambo]

The problem with allowing bailiffs into your home to do a levy is that it then allows them to break into your home at a later date.

NEVER EVER LET THEM IN!

I have had terrible problems with bailiffs in the past regarding illegal parking tickets, bailiffs will lie and cheat to get money out of you.

I understand the need for bailiffs, if they act within the law.

[Thermometer]

??

[tiglet]

I think the point is that bailiffs are not there to help people - they are there to collect their money. Some are sympathetic and understanding, but from a lot of stories on CAG, it's obvious a lot aren't.

[Thermometer]

??

[tiglet]

I can agree with that, although if you look at some of my posts you will notice that when I have had a good dealing with a DCa (only one mind - Ricburns , see Npower have fitted a key meter for an account they know is in dispute ) I do mention it.

 

The problem is that people aren't aware of their rights and guidelines from the OFT are just that - guidelines. I also thought it was unhelpful of whatamuppet to make comments about people paying their debts - to be honest, people find themselves in all sorts of situations such as divorce, redundancy, bereavement, illness etc, etc, etc and everything financial seems out of control.

 

I know this doesn't apply to everyone and some people do choose to spend, spend, spend - the end result is the same - shame, despair and panic about how to manage the situation. the example of someone being defaulted by a bailiff for being 3 days late shows that there appears to be a general lack of compassion and understanding that bailiffs are dealing with human beings - and things come up from time to time.

 

Not wanting to argue, just simply saying it's unhelpful to say people should pay their debts quicker, that's all. To be honest, anyone who is dealing with DCA's/bailiffs etc. do know that and reminding them of the fact, IMO, is rubbing salt into already raw wounds.

[Thermometer]

??

[sequenci]

if there is a disagreement on any advice given it may be better if the source of your information is given and also a non commercial link to it given .That can quickly clear up any misunderstandings

 

it is a non-commercial link.

[Thermometer]

??

[sequenci]

sequenci,

 

I think Janet-M's comment was probably addressed at Pizzamaker who said that up to 3 van fees could be made - even though at the time Pizzamaker's comments was made there was no dispute! The dispute could only arise after someone read the post!

 

aha!

 

no worries ;p

[davefirewalker]

Hi thermometer...

 

I have been in this position.

long before I found this site I had a bailiff call and I signed a walking possession. fine at first then after two months they increased the payments by 50% then after another couple of months it went up again. I missed one payment by a week so sent it along with the next months (thinking that this might placate them). no way they returned the cheques and I had the guy turn up wanting the whole balance in cash there and then. I had to make a few quick calls to friends, and arranged to pay the balance the next day.

 

To say I was traumatised wasnt in it. I can understand how people can do the unthinkable....I was nearly there. These guys once they get a foothold will keep turning the screws and playing by their own rules regardless of who it hurts or what rules they break.

 

rant over

 

however i am now in the same position again (sort of) this time I am in control

I have offered a certain amount that wont leave me short and have continued to pay it despite the protests of the bailiffs and their office. if they dont like it they can give it back to the council.

 

They arent getting in!!!!!

 

Dave