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    • "We suffer more in imagination than in reality" - really pleased this all happened. Settled by TO, full amount save as to costs and without interest claimed. I consider this a success but feel free to move this thread to wherever it's appropriate. I say it's a success because when I started this journey I was in a position of looking to pay interest on all these accounts, allowing them to default stopped that and so even though I am paying the full amount, it is without a doubt reduced from my position 3 years ago and I feel knowing this outcome was possible, happy to gotten this far, defended myself in person and left with a loan with terms I could only dream of, written into law as interest free! I will make better decisions in the future on other accounts, knowing key stages of this whole process. We had the opportunity to speak in court, Judge (feels like just before a ruling) was clear in such that he 'had all the relevant paperwork to make a judgement'. He wasn't pleased I hadn't settled before Court.. but then stated due to WS and verbal arguments on why I haven't settled, from my WS conclusion as follows: "11. The Defendant was not given ample evidence to prove the debt and therefore was not required to enter settlement negotiations. Should the debt be proved in the future, the Defendant is willing to enter such negotiations with the Claimant. "  He offered to stand down the case to give us chance to settle and that that was for my benefit specifically - their Sols didn't want to, he asked me whether I wanted to proceed to judgement or be given the opportunity to settle. Naturally, I snapped his hand off and we entered negotiations (took about 45 minutes). He added I should get legal advice for matters such as these. They were unwilling to agree to a TO unless it was full amount claimed, plus costs, plus interest. Which I rejected as I felt that was unfair in light of the circumstances and the judges comments, I then countered with full amount minus all costs and interest over 84 months. They accepted that. I believe the Judge wouldn't have been happy if they didn't accept a payment plan for the full amount, at this late stage. The judge was very impressed by my articulate defence and WS (Thanks CAG!) he respected that I was wiling to engage with the process but commented only I  can know whether this debt is mine, but stated that Civil cases were based on balance of probabilities, not without shadow of a doubt, and all he needs to determine is whether the account existed. Verbal arguments aside; he has enough evidence in paperwork for that. He clarified that a copy of a DN and NOA is sufficient proof based on balance of probabilities that they were served. I still disagree, but hey, I'm just me.. It's definitely not strict proof as basically I have to prove the negative (I didn't receive them/they were not served), which is impossible. Overall, a great result I think! BT  
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Some clarification please


Conniff
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Good evening again.

 

I have all the charges, minus any account maint charges:

 

Charges £2,897.50

 

Interest £586.30

 

I will be counting up the payments made to the loan later.

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Having read back over this thread I have a feeling the wires are getting crossed.

Is this about the bank account or the loan?

 

The loan payments record I have been sent by the NW is incomplete so I will need to send for them so that I can see exactly how much I have paid (or overpaid).

 

I can send an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to NW so that I have a full copy of the payments made, but do I need to? They have already provided an incomplete list of payments made, so I should just be able to write and ask for the missing payments.

 

I think the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) (if one is necessary) should go to the DCA so that I get a full list of payments made to them as it looks like they have loaded quite a large lump onto the loan, and then I can compare it with what I receive from NW.

 

Does that make sense?

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Having read back over this thread I have a feeling the wires are getting crossed.

Is this about the bank account or the loan? I always refer to the loan as the bank account is well over 6 years ago.

 

The loan payments record I have been sent by the NW is incomplete so I will need to send for them so that I can see exactly how much I have paid (or overpaid).

 

I can send an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to NW so that I have a full copy of the payments made, but do I need to? They have already provided an incomplete list of payments made, so I should just be able to write and ask for the missing payments. That's what i'ld do, i'ld also tell Moorcroft that you want a breakdown of all credits and debits, an opening balance and the current amount allegedly outstanding that has been paid to them as this legally forms part of the CCA request.

 

I think the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) (if one is necessary) should go to the DCA so that I get a full list of payments made to them as it looks like they have loaded quite a large lump onto the loan, and then I can compare it with what I receive from NW. As above MC should have sent a breakdown as part of the CCA request, don't send them any more money!

 

Does that make sense?

 

With regard to the new stuff that's coming to light now, agreement not signed by you, not completed in your presense... etc... It might be a good idea now to open a dialogue with your local Trading Standards office. You can find your local office just by doing a postcode search, here:

Trading Standards Central - Trading Standards and Consumer Protection information for the UK

 

Good luck, we'll get this sorted!

 

Regards, Dave.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi there Conniff,

 

how are you doing with your claim ?

have you heard anything yet ?

 

Make sure you post any information, you have received,

(or not received ?) which will need chasing....

so that we can all help you.

 

good luck

alice x x

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello Alice, Hello Dave

 

Thanks for the concern.

I haven't been too well lately, but not so bad now.

 

I haven't heard anything at all from anyone, so I am assuming that I have paid the full amount (or more) and they have filed it down.

 

I will need to have a look around the site and at other threads before I can take it up again.

 

If you would like to say that you would send an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) or leave it as it is, I would like that.

 

 

 

x Conniff

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A question please.

 

I have been reading around the site to bring me back up to speed on what all this is about.

As my agreement is not signed or dated by either party, I take it that means it is unenforceable. Does that mean that as no agreement exists then I can claim back all the payments I have made over the past ten years?

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good morning conniff

 

sorry to hear you haven't been too good lately.

 

I hope you are MUCH better now :)

 

this loan agreement you talk about sounds quite complex.

 

i think you might best be speaking to a moderator on this one.

they have much more experience, and can give you very good advice.

 

good luck

 

alice x

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bump

 

can someone please come and help conniff with his debt problem.

 

i think perhaps his thread should be on the

 

Natwest forum

 

instead of under General Debt ???

 

maybe he might get more help if his thread was moved onto Natwest, instead of being under General Debt ?

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A question please.

 

I have been reading around the site to bring me back up to speed on what all this is about.

As my agreement is not signed or dated by either party, I take it that means it is unenforceable. Does that mean that as no agreement exists then I can claim back all the payments I have made over the past ten years?

 

 

All the absence of the agreement means is that it is unenforceable, not that it never existed, the debt still remains it just cannot be enforced, you therefore have no grounds to claim back what you have paid, unless it is charges.

  • Haha 1

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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Hi Conniff, i'm so glad to see you back! :) Sorry to hear you've not been to well too..

 

Knowing more of the circumstances of this, and the charges being well outside of the 6 year time limit, I seem to remember without reading back that it's over a decade ago, i'ld personally let it lie now as they're not chasing you any more and really just don't want to get in touch (their loss!).

 

As gizmo says the absence of the agreement or an incorrect agreement makes it unenforceable. Don't forget, you can always come back for help if need be!

 

Best wishes, Dave.

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Thank you all so much for your help and assistance and expecially Dave who has guided me from the start. Unfortunately Dave I am not allowed to add further to your scales.

 

I will let it whither away in piece as advised.

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Thank you all so much for your help and assistance and expecially :oops: Dave :oops: who has guided me from the start. Unfortunately Dave I am not allowed to add further to your scales.

 

I will let it whither away in piece as advised.

 

Conniff, i'm just so pleased that I was able to help! You're very very welcome.

 

This is a great result considering how it started...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/71832-some-clarification-please.html#post619021

 

Good luck, best wishes. Best regards, Dave.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all.

 

Well it didn't wither and die. Yesterday I had a phone call from Fredrickson International and thought it was someone asking if we wanted a mortgage, we have been getting a lot of them lately, so I just said "we don't want one now ~#@/ off and put the phone down.

 

This morning I had a letter from them saying they had been instructed by NW to collect said dues.

 

About an hour ago I had a phone call from them and accepted it. I asked him if they had purchased the debt or if it had been assigned and he said "assigned".

I told him this was in dispute and that I had asked Moorecroft for a list of all payments made and that they had passed it on to NW. I said NW had sent me a copy of statements and an unsighed or dated agreement and nothing else, so it remains in dispute.

 

He said he could get me a list of payments made if I put it in writting to him and at no charge.

 

Question is: I really need a list of payments made to Moorcroft as well as a list of payments made to NW so that I can compare them to see if they have added any charges.

 

Do I request this from both of them? and can't remember (said I had a bad memory) if it is a CCA or S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request I should send.

 

Conniff

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Do I request this from both of them?

You can if you want. All you need to request is a statement of account which is free, this should give you the info that you want.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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But do I believe the dca - I havent got a full record any longer so don't trust them so I would like to compare it with what they have paid NW.

 

I will ask them both for a statement and take it from there, many thanks, I will let you know if it goes wrong.

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What a shame, I thought this had gone to bed... :rolleyes:

 

About an hour ago I had a phone call from them and accepted it. I asked him if they had purchased the debt or if it had been assigned and he said "assigned".
I told him this was in dispute
NW shouldn't be farming out accounts that are in dispute. It's against the rules you know! readtherules.gif

 

Here's a letter that worked a treat for me...

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I refer to your recent letter and telephone calls.

 

You will be aware that as holders of a Consumer Credit Licence you are obliged to comply with the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines on Debt Collection. I would therefore be obliged if you would provide me with an explanation as to why you are attempting to collect on an alleged debt which was disputed with NAT WEST prior to your first contact with me,

and has yet to be resolved. Since this is considered an unfair practice and contrary to the OFT guidelines, you should consider this letter as a formal complaint, and provide me with a copy of your complaint resolution procedure. I also require you to confirm that you will now comply with the OFT guidelines, and will not attempt any further collection activity whilst the dispute is unresolved.

 

Should you fail to provide me with the required undertaking within 7 days, I shall report your breach of the OFT guidelines to Trading Standards and complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Take notice that I will not discuss this matter on the telephone, and all further communication must be in writing. Any further telephone calls will

be perceived as harassment, and dealt with accordingly.

 

Yours faithfully..............

That should do the trick...! ;)

 

Good luck, Dave.

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