fasthosts late payment penalty charges reclaim court claim raised **WON**

[robert_harper_2000]

Excellent well I'll start court ASAP then, e-mails are counted I think so I can prove if it comes to it that I tried to deal with it without court action.

 

Thanks again

#I'll keep you posted.

[robert_harper_2000]

Received final response today.

Issued court action today

 

1. The Claimant has an account n422149 with the Defendant, opened May 2004 2. On 11/09/06 the Defendant debited a charge in respect of purported breaches of contract. 3. Defendant is aware of all details as my charge has already been supplied. Another copy will be sent. 4. Claimant contends: (a) The charges exceed the Defendant's losses caused by the breaches; (b) The Term permitting the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and at Common Law. 5. Claimant claims: return of the amounts debited of £47 6. Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. 7. Costs allowed by the Court.

[buzby]

Magic!

[Mysterio]

Hello everyone,

 

I have recently been unlawfully charged by Fasthosts too.

Having spoken to their Customer services department I have been told that they do not have to justify the charge. Lucky I have this via email and with the guy's name.

 

Having emailed escalations almost a week ago and not having received an email I am going to send an email to Jo Ryall at Fasthosts to ask for a refund.

 

Obviously if she refuses then I will not be hesitating to take court action.

 

Well done to those who have had a refund so far.

 

Lets spread the word that Fasthosts are unlawfully charging people so we can all get a refund.

 

Mysterio

Soon to be an ex customer of Fasthosts (nothing fast about their reply or you get one at all)

[robert_harper_2000]

Ask for a final response. Then you can start court!

[Mysterio]

Received the following from Fasthosts today after waiting over a week for them to reply. I am getting really angry now and would encourage all to avoid them like the plague.

 

Dear James,

 

Thank you for your email sent to our Escalations team and I sincerely apologise

for the delay on my reply.

 

In order to be able to provide you with services at a competitive price,

Fasthosts Internet gives you access to your control panel 24x7 so that not only

you can manage the hosting on your domain but also update your account and

credit card information.

 

Because Fasthosts always charge for our products and services on a pre-pay basis

it is crucial that your card is up to date at all times so that payments can be

taken from them when your account is up for

renewal.

 

Unfortunately the card on the account at the time we tried to take payment on

the 22.10.2006 was invalid your account fell into arrears for close to a month.

I am afraid the admin fee applies to all accounts which fail to meet payment.

 

Our actions are driven only by our wish to lower the costs associated with

customers defaulting on payments. The administrative charges associated with

this have a direct impact on the level of service that

we are able to offer our customers. The resources used in the administration of

billing issues of this nature are not available to respond to customer service

issues that are not the result of a failure

on the part of our customers to ensure that sufficient funds are available to

pay for the services we are supplying.

 

It is as a result of this problem and in the interests of our customer base as a

whole that we have decided to apply the administrative charge that you are

disputing.

 

We have taken a number of steps to communicate to our customer base the changes

in our terms and conditions in fact; we emailed you on the 28.07.06 regarding

these changes. The decision to apply an administrative charge to accounts that

enter debt collection was not one that we took lightly and the charge itself

does not necessarily cover the cost to us of reconciling the problem.

 

With the information currently available to us, I am afraid Fasthosts Internet

will not refund the admin charge you enquired about.

 

Yours sincerely,

-

 

Carolina Routledge

Customer Support Team Leader

Fasthosts Internet Ltd.

 

Hey almost the same wording!

So have just replied. If they so no, then off to court we go. I will also be telling my credit company.

[Mysterio]

Well obviously not prepared to accept the standard template email that they are sending out, I replied and today received another unacceptable email as follows.

 

Fasthosts are still refusing to refund the money. I have replied and given them one last chance. If refund is not given, I am starting legal action against them and reporting them to my credit card company for imposing unlawful charges to my credit card.

 

Dear James,

 

Thank you for contacting Fasthosts.

 

I have been investigating your e-mail.

 

The charge was applied for a failed billing attempt. The attempt failed on the

19-Nov-2006 at 06:38 and an e-mail sent from [email protected] to email address

explained that you had a failed payment. As per our

terms and conditions, any failed payment will incur the £20+vat charge.

 

The change in our Terms and Conditions was communicated to our entire customer

base. The e-mail titled 'Terms of service update 28/07/2006' was sent to you on

the 28-Jul-2006 at 23:32 from [email protected] to

 

 

Our terms and conditions have always stated that the customer is responsible for

having correct payment and contact details on the account at all times.

 

As a reseller you are in a very strong position as you can see the dates of all

of your invoices, the date due and the amount. Further to this you are able to

enter up to 10 cards, so should the 1st fail we will attempt to bill from the

2nd card, and so on. No admin fee would apply until all 10 cards were

unsuccessfully billed.

 

Further to this, I can see that we were unable to collect payment on the

following occasions :

 

DEBT COLLECTION: Fourth warning 12-Nov-2006 05:42 [email protected]

View Resend

DEBT COLLECTION: Third warning 05-Nov-2006 07:25 [email protected]

View Resend

DEBT COLLECTION: Second warning 29-Oct-2006 07:32 [email protected]

View Resend

DEBT COLLECTION: Initial warning 22-Oct-2006 06:55 [email protected]

 

 

 

Each time the decline was returned from your bank :

 

Declines on n63273

24/11/2006 09:01:14 - Amount: £58.75 - (7)

24/11/2006 08:56:06 - Amount: £23.50 - (7)

22/11/2006 09:29:26 - Amount: £58.75 - (7)

22/11/2006 09:13:40 - Amount: £23.50 - (7)

21/11/2006 07:03:49 - Amount: £58.75 - (7)

20/11/2006 05:50:34 - Amount: £23.50 - (7)

19/11/2006 06:40:16 - Amount: £23.50 - (7)

 

The error code (7) is only returned from the bank when 1) there are insufficient

funds for the payment to take place 2) card details are not correct 3) bank has

stopped the card.

 

Taking the above into account I am afraid that I am not able to refund the admin

fee that was taken from you.

--

Stuart Brereton

Customer Support Team Leader

Fasthosts Internet Ltd.

 

Fasthosts Support: http://www.fasthosts.co.uk/support

Your Fasthosts control panel: http://www.fasthosts.co.uk/login

 

Fasthosts is registered in England and Wales.

Registered office: Discovery Court, 154 Southgate Street, Gloucester,

Gloucestershire, UK. GL1 2EX

[robert_harper_2000]

The charges need to be proportionate. Automated e-mail do not cost anything. Ask them for a breakdown of how it costs them that and then, as I have done action court, I haven't heard anything yet but it is early days!

 

I'll keep you posted

 

As you might have read from someone helping me, they mention the returned payments but they didn't actually call you to ask you to make payment or perhaps "you wanted to pay via cheque?" they didn't give the option? well that is their business decision to no accept cheques - their problem.

[Mysterio]

Well heard back from FH today. I don;t actually they they even read the emails. They keep saying we will not refund, we have acted fairly etc. All I want is for them to justifty how it has cost them £23.50. Will be starting legal action tomorrow. Have exhausted all forms of remedy. Its so unprofessional, the banks are having to refund all charges then so should fasthosts. I am going to email moneysavingexpert.com so see what they say. Spread the word, avoid Fasthosts and UK Reg.

Mickey mouse from the monkeys at Fasthosts below:

 

Dear James,

>

> Fasthosts believe that we have acted in the correct manner and have

> communicated all changes in terms and conditions, and failed billing

requests.

>

> It is your duty to ensure that correct payment methods are in place to avoid

a

> failed billing attempt, and you are in breach of our terms and conditions

when

> payment fails.

>

> I am afraid that our final decision is that this will not be refunded.

>

> I am sorry that I am not able to resolve this in the manner in which you

would

> like.

>

> I suggest that you contact your bank to enquire as to why they have declined

so

> many transactions in recent months.

>

> Regards

 

Dear James,

>

> Fasthosts believe that we have acted in the correct manner and have

> communicated all changes in terms and conditions, and failed billing

requests.

>

> It is your duty to ensure that correct payment methods are in place to avoid

a

> failed billing attempt, and you are in breach of our terms and conditions

when

> payment fails.

>

> I am afraid that our final decision is that this will not be refunded.

>

> I am sorry that I am not able to resolve this in the manner in which you

would

> like.

>

> I suggest that you contact your bank to enquire as to why they have declined

so

> many transactions in recent months.

>

> Regards

Stuart Brereton

Customer Support Team Leader

Fasthosts Internet Ltd.

 

Fasthosts Support: http://www.fasthosts.co.uk/support

Your Fasthosts control panel: http://www.fasthosts.co.uk/login

 

Fasthosts is registered in England and Wales.

Registered office: Discovery Court, 154 Southgate Street, Gloucester,

Gloucestershire, UK. GL1 2EX

[buzby]

I found this a lot with Sky - abrupt and unresponsive on the phone, emails that were part-answered and refusing to do anything. All this ended the second they received the Summons. They couldn;t have been nicer (!), emails responsed to promptly, and a cheque in full payment of my claim and costs of raising the action.

[robert_harper_2000]

is there anyone you haven't started court against? lol

 

wrong section but you seem to know abit about this sort of thing, is it possible to claim compensation for the defaults place under your name even if you have got your fines refunded?

[buzby]

Boredom! And the fact I've had enough being pushed around when common courtesy would have resolved the issue at the outset! The defaults are unquantifiable, as they are not on 'public' display - as opposed to a court Default (capital D). However, it can be expensive to check that your credit records are in order - so charging £10 per CRA (£30) is a good start and not unreasonable charge to make as you ensure your credit record is not compromised. It's their game, play it their way!

[robert_harper_2000]

sorry don't quite understand. I'm talking about when I've missed a payment and it has left its mark not about court defaults? Expensive to check? I was intending to get a credit check with Experian etc about £2?

 

thanks!

[OLI1879]

Hi, I have just had the same problem, a £20 administration fee + vat from fasthosts for late payment. I asked them by email to breakdown costs and they sent me the following email:

 

> Dear Oliver,

>

> Thank you for your recent email regarding the admin fee.

>

> The admin fee has been applied in accordance with our Terms and Conditions.

>

> I unable to discuss the costs incurred to us over this issue.

>

> If you wish to take this further, please email [email protected]

>

> Regards,

>

> Ed Dorey

> Customer Support

> Fasthosts Internet Ltd.

 

Any advice on my reply?

 

Thanks

[robert_harper_2000]

e-mail escalations asking for a breakdown of costs

[OLI1879]

I take it from being "unable to discuss it?" he is saying that he is not allowed to discuss it. Is this legal seeing as I have paid for it?

[demon_x_slash]

The banks also take this line, arguing that the information is 'commercially sensitive'. In other words, if they tell you how much it actually costs them to send a letter, they're telling you their 'service' markup, and you might run and blab to a rival company, who then have a commercial advantage because they can then offer the same 'service' for a cheaper rate.

 

From the consumer's point of view, however, this is unacceptable. The law states that, where two parties are bound by a contract, there shall not be a clause that gives an unfair advantage to a single party. If there were such a clause, it would be deemed to be unfair, and therefore unlawful. The fact that they may charge what they wish for 'late payment' with no right of appeal gives them an advantage over you.

 

More importantly though, it is unlawful to penalise someone for breaking a contract - the other party is only entitled to recover actual costs incurred. It is the same principle as the banks.

[Mysterio]

Hi, I have just had the same problem, a £20 administration fee + vat from fasthosts for late payment. I asked them by email to breakdown costs and they sent me the following email:

 

> Dear Oliver,

>

> Thank you for your recent email regarding the admin fee.

>

> The admin fee has been applied in accordance with our Terms and Conditions.

>

> I unable to discuss the costs incurred to us over this issue.

>

> If you wish to take this further, please email [email protected]

>

> Regards,

>

> Ed Dorey

> Customer Support

> Fasthosts Internet Ltd.

 

Any advice on my reply?

 

Thanks

 

Well it looks like Ed Dorey in Customer Support is not complying with UK legislation. Companies are legal obliged to send you a break down of how it has cost them £20.00. It has to be reasonable.

I waited over a week before escaltions bothered to get back to me and it was only after I sent another email they bothered to reply.

I have now closed my Fasthosts account and have completed the paper work and am not starting legal action against them.

******S the lot of them.

[Mysterio]

Well it looks like Ed Dorey in Customer Support is not complying with UK legislation. Companies are legal obliged to send you a break down of how it has cost them £20.00. It has to be reasonable.

I waited over a week before escaltions bothered to get back to me and it was only after I sent another email they bothered to reply.

I have now closed my Fasthosts account and have completed the paper work and am not starting legal action against them.

******S the lot of them.

 

Just re read my post and realised I said not starting legal action that should read now starting legal action.

 

Once I have had my money returned from Fasthosts I am going to start on my bank. Oh yes!

[robert_harper_2000]

I received their defence today.

 

Along the lines of costs are to cover

-development and maintenance of automatic billing system

-customer services

-staff to cover cust communication of failed payments ( they didn't speak to me!)

- Processing failed payments

-

 

flat fee is fair

 

bla bla bla

 

Shall I post the full defence?

[Mysterio]

It would be interesting to see the full defence.

Are you able to appeal.

I have closed my Fasthost account now as they are awful. They couldn't even get my account closure right it took them over a week. Muppets!

I would contest the appeal if you are able. If the banks have to refund the charges then so should Fasthosts. I truly believe that the charges they are applying to people's accounts is unlawful.

[robert_harper_2000]

in response to 4)

The admistration fee applied by Fasthosts in the case of customers failing to pay for services provided to them is a measure implemented to recover part of the cost to our business from dealing with delinquent debt being passed on to those customers who maintain valid payment details with us and do not allow their accounts to become deliquent.

The costs to us of dealing with the delinquent debt include, but are not limited to:

-The development & maintenance of automated billing systems to deal with payment failures;

-the customer communication as a result of failed payment;

-the cost to the business of not receiving funds when due;

-the processing costs of failed transactions;

-the cost to the business of not receiving funds when due;

-the processing costs of failed transactions;

-the costs of managing such issues when escalated internally.

The decision to apply a flat fee appears to bee the fairest way to address the 'deliquency' issue. Our policy is not to apply the fee to any individual customers more than once per calendar month, and to consider the justification for a refund in any case where there is evidence, or reason to belivev, the the failure to take payment due was the result of events outside of the control of the customer. An example of such a situation would be a bank error. We also made sure that the details of this fee and the coniditonsunder which it would be applied were cleary stated in our terms of service, prior to the implenmentation fo the measure. Any change in our terms service is always communicated to our customers via e-mails and such an email was sent to mr harper on 28th July 2006 informing him that our terms of service had been updated.

We understand that accurate and relevant communivation with our customers is essential and we are suprised that mr harper chose not to act in response to the emails that we sent him on the 7th, 14th and 28th August. Acting diligently on any of these emails would have enabled mr harper to avoid the second charge applied and acting diligently to amintain valid card details in the first place would have enabled mr harper to avoid the first charge.

 

in response to 4b)

we do not recognise the relevance of the claimants reference to the unfair terms in the consumer contracts regulations 1999, given that the claimant is contracted to us in the capacity of a limited company. The provisions of the aforemention regulations stipulate that:

"consumer" means any natural person who in contracts covered by these regulations, is acting for the purposes which are outside his trade business or profession.

We do not recongise the releance of the claimants reference to the unfair contract terms act 1977, as this act appears to be specifically apply to exclude clasuses to limit liability.

We do not recognise the relevance of the claimants reference to the supplse of goods and services act 1982, as the act only refers to the reasonableness of the price of the service actually being provided, In this case the service provided is a hosting account and the administration fee is not charged in respect of any service.

[robert_harper_2000]

This is the defence sorry for the delay. Also the Judge has asked for further information or the case will be struck off....

 

Thanks!

[BSC]

-The development & maintenance of automated billing systems to deal with payment failures;

 

 

Don't see why you should pay their development costs, thats one of the things I challenged them on and they refunded me.

 

 

Oh - and I asked them to provide details of costs, surprisingly they said that was not possible.

Good luck

[robert_harper_2000]

with reference to the Judge should I literally just write back asking for a breakdown of their costs and stating I shouldn't be paying development costs?

 

Cheerrs!

 

Judge Request:

1. The claim is stayed on the grounds that the claimants statement of case disclose inadequate particulars of claim. Unless by 4.00pm 5th Feb 07 the claimant files and servces a further statment of case that sets out full particulars of the claim, the claim will stand struck out.