Are HFC Desperate?

[odaowlII]

Could you please put into 'Idiot-speak' what a CCA is?

 

Really

 

I may also need illustrations, instruction manual, the lot

[PPMAN159]

I too am in the lucky position of having a loan account with HFC, taken out when I purchased a PC through PC World.

 

During part of the loan I was unemployed and as a result some of the monthly payments were bounced by Nat West.

 

Therefore I was charged by NWB for the failed direct debit and by HFC for the non payment of the instalment.

 

My question is can I claim the HFC charges back in the same way that I am with Nut West?

 

Thanks

[Scooby_Doo2]

Could you please put into 'Idiot-speak' what a CCA is?

 

Really

 

I may also need illustrations, instruction manual, the lot

 

 

Consumer Credit Agreement - as regulated by the Consumer Credit Act. It's the document you sign to say you wish to take the loan and be bound by the terms of the agreement. Without it, a bank cannot prove that the agreement between you and the bank exists and cannot enforce the terms of the agreement (i.e. that you owe them money).

 

Someone else will need to give links to other threads on instructions etc as I've not read them all.... yet.

[Scooby_Doo2]

The truthful answer (and I use to work for HFC/Beneficial) is that as a company which doesn't advertise to new customers, most business is driven through (and this is the logical process);

 

You set up a retail account through Dixons for example,

HFC then calls you to say you're a good customer why don't you come in because we can look at consol/home improvements/new car etc...

 

You then come in and sign, you get taken off the list for 3 - 6months, then you come back on the list and we call you all the time to keep you in debt with us and that's how HFC makes it's money.

 

I say this as a stark warning to all - Stay away from HFC, never have i worked for such an inept company. Really shocking. Thankfully I no longer work for them.

 

I used to work there too and I whole heartedly agree with Dirty_Dog.

 

The branch staff are generally quite young with little or no financial experience themselves. They are sent of a 4 week intensive sales course (yes, that's a sales course, not a financial advice course, where they are taught how to overcome your objections and close in on the sale...) and then sent back to the branches to sell loans over the phone and invite customers into the branch to sell the loan, plus PPI and as many general insurance products as they can. Their turnover of staff is very high due to the pressures placed on them to achieve targets.

 

What's even more worrying, is that most of their compliance department know very little of the FSA's Principles for Businesses or even the FSA Handbook.

 

From the top down, it is a sales organisation through and through. The Regional Managers tear the Branch Managers to pieces for not achieving targets, who in turn tear the Customer Account Managers to pieces. There is virtually no personal development and little investment in staff.

 

If you watched the Whitleblower programme about Barclays recently, you'll not be surprised to learn that that was almost identical to every Beneficial Finance branch.

 

I actually feel sorry for HSBC - they acquired Household Int for access to the North American consumer market. I don't think they fully understood the implications of acquiring HFC Bank as part of the deal. HFC Bank wanted to have the HSBC name in the rebranded branch network and the call it "HSBC Finance". It ended up being called Beneficial Finance with the HSBC logo - HSBC's brand name is massive and they didn't want HFC Bank to damage it!

 

There are some good people there, but their numbers are dropping fast as they (like me) leave to work for real financial services companies and not telemarketing companies that have little, or no regard for their customers.

 

If you ever need a loan, go to a real bank.

 

(p.s. Dirty_Dog - I think we've probably met! :eek: )

[Scooby_Doo2]

I too am in the lucky position of having a loan account with HFC, taken out when I purchased a PC through PC World.

 

During part of the loan I was unemployed and as a result some of the monthly payments were bounced by Nat West.

 

Therefore I was charged by NWB for the failed direct debit and by HFC for the non payment of the instalment.

 

My question is can I claim the HFC charges back in the same way that I am with Nut West?

 

Thanks

 

Yes.

 

There is nothing to stop you challenging these charges.

 

HFC will probably respond and try to say that your account doesn't qualify, quoting the recent OFT advice on credit card charges.

 

Ignore that response as your case is about penalty charges/excessive fees which are disproportionate to the administration costs incurred by the bank.

 

You may also want to consider a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. Just because the level of a charge is listed in the account terms and conditions doesn't mean it's fair.

 

Refer them to Principle 6 of the FSA's Principles for Businesses:

A firm must pay due regard to the interests of its customers and treat them fairly.

 

In order to complain to the FOS, you will need to have exhausted the bank's internal complaints procedure first. This is done when the firm issues their "Final Response" on the matter. Then you can refer to the FOS to arbitrate. The FOS decision will not prejudice any legal action you may take and their services are free to you, but will cost the firm £360 regardless of whether the complaint is upheld or rejected.

 

Hope this helps.

[PPMAN159]

Scooby

 

Many thanks for the post.

 

One other question if I may.

 

As this is a loan account, can I request statements from HFC in the same way as I have from Nat West or will I need to alter my request?

 

Thanks

[N#1N#2]

Reading the original part of the thread, can you clarify

 

If they cannot provide a copy of the original agreement then they can not enforce the agreement and you do not have to recognise the account.

 

I had a flexi account with them for many years, had the same calls come in and review your account and lets see what we can do?????

 

I overstretched myself and currently paying minimum ammount each month.

 

So they have had a lot of money off me over the years but want to get rid of them.

 

So I CCA them then dispute the account is that what is being said or Am I dreaming

[Scooby_Doo2]

Scooby

 

Many thanks for the post.

 

One other question if I may.

 

As this is a loan account, can I request statements from HFC in the same way as I have from Nat West or will I need to alter my request?

 

Thanks

 

You can request a detailed breakdown of your account history - they should provide this free of charge (at least, they used to).

 

The only difference really is that as a loan account is not a transactional account, they are under no obligation to send you a regular statement, but they must be able to produce one upon request.

[Scooby_Doo2]

Reading the original part of the thread, can you clarify

 

If they cannot provide a copy of the original agreement then they can not enforce the agreement and you do not have to recognise the account.

 

I had a flexi account with them for many years, had the same calls come in and review your account and lets see what we can do?????

 

I overstretched myself and currently paying minimum ammount each month.

 

So they have had a lot of money off me over the years but want to get rid of them.

 

So I CCA them then dispute the account is that what is being said or Am I dreaming

 

This is how I understand it, so long as they are unable to produce the original legal agreement. Of course, they would only send you a certified copy.

 

Without the legal agreement, they cannot enforce the agreement against you without a court order.

 

I would have to defer the legal technicalities to someone else on these forums who knows more about the Consumer Credit Act and the court processes. My knowledge lies in my past experience of HFC Bank and the regulatory environment. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately!?) I didn't study hard enough at school to become a lawyer

 

I imagine your flexi account was either a Personal Loan Plus, Beneficial Loan Manager or the Household Flexible Loan. All 3 accounts are pretty poor from the customer's perspective and great from the bank's. If you pay the minimum monthly payment, you pay the maximum monthly interest. If you can't get shot of the account through HFC's poor administration, I'd suggest shopping around for a low rate loan, or you'll have the flexi-loan for years longer.

 

You may also want to consider raising an official complaint to them about their sales practices. At the end of the day, they are supposed to be a "responsible lender". If their actions caused or encouraged you to overstretch your budget, they are equally as responsible as you.

 

Hope this helps.

[stroke a badger]

HFC CCA request signed for 08/03/07 so the 12th day was 20/03/07, and as of today no sign of a CCA. Lets just hope they fail to produce something by the 40th day, being 18/04/07.

[Dirty_Dog]

I completely agree with Scooby Doo2.

The most effective way to deal with HFC in this scenario is to log an official complaint (which they need to deal with in an agreed timescale) saying that you were mis-sold the account (which is probably true). Then ask them to provide the original signed credit agreement. Again, if your branch was anything like where I was based, admin, records and general good house keeping is non existent and hence won’t be able to provide evidence.

There is also added pressure on the staff to still deliver loan numbers and business so resources will be limited so hopefully HFC will fold over and come to an acceptable agreement for you.

Good luck and keep on pushing, you’ll get there in the end.

As for you Scoob who’s region/division were you in?

[RedDeath]

Hi, just subscribing to this thread as in the same exact position. Loan for a pc from pcworld.

My loan was defaulted back in 2005 and I paid up.

I am sending away for a copy of the agreement. If they are not able to produce this, would that mean that I can actually claim the entire loan amount back from them (plus usual interest) and have the default removed?

[srfrench]

Bump!

[hershey]

Sorry if this is taken the wrong way but reading through your comments as I have my own issues with HFC and cant help but notice lots of people are accusing HFC of overcommiting there customers, surely you know what you commit to when you go into the branches. I to am attempting to claim back charges and have spoken to a few helpful people at Beneficial finance.

[Scooby_Doo2]

Sorry if this is taken the wrong way but reading through your comments as I have my own issues with HFC and cant help but notice lots of people are accusing HFC of overcommiting there customers, surely you know what you commit to when you go into the branches. I to am attempting to claim back charges and have spoken to a few helpful people at Beneficial finance.

 

HFC Bank Ltd, now trading as Beneficial Finance is a highly focused sales organisation. Their staff are strongly incentivised to sell loans and general insurance products.

 

They do have some safeguards in place, a budget planner if you will, that helps them "prove" a client can afford their repayments. However the "Credit Policy Matrix" as they call it, has default amounts for normal expenditure on food, fuel, gas, electric etc. Before I left the company (less than 12 months ago) these figures were last reviewed in the early 1990's are do not truly reflect what a client can really afford.

 

The other problem is, whenever you put money to a sales target, human nature dictates that some people will always take the path of least resistance to achieve it. To give HFC Bank some credit, they do take action against staff who knowingly breach company policies or try to circumvent the built in safeguards. Examples can include artificially inflating a client's income, reducing expenditure on items such as council tax etc. Spookily, a lot of customers only pay £50 a month for council tax.... I wish I did!

 

There are some good people in the branches but remember, they have an immense pressure on them to hit their growth, PPI and collections targets. HFC Bank as a whole has some serious delinquency (bad debts) issues and these could be seen as a reflection of the bank's previous lending practices / policies.

 

All regulated lenders have a responsibility to assess their customer's needs and to ensure they don't over extend them. It's easily done and customers often don't realise they are doing it. Therefore the bank would also have to take some (but not all) responsibility for the lending decision. There is an inherent risk in lending that even the best underwriter could not foresee, which is why they charge an interest rate to reflect the risk.

[121o121]

Does anyone have a head office address for Beneficial finance? All I can find on their website is their branch addresses.

[stroke a badger]

Registered Office:

 

North Street

Winkfield

Windsor

Berkshire

SL4 4TD

[121o121]

Thank you v. much.

[121o121]

Yesterday I received my Credit Agreement, so that answers my request under the CCA 1974.

 

I can't believe what I signed back then (and I quote).

 

Amount of Loan : £ 5,000.00 ("Loan")

Add : £ 2,103.16 Interest (APR 27.4%)

 

Total Payable : £7,103.16

 

Life Assurance : £ 247.55

Accident / Sickness : £ 561.12

Interest : £ 340.09

 

Total Payable : £1,148.76

 

Combined Total Payable : £8,251.92

 

Will be rid of them on 18th August 2009. I am crossing each payment off my calander, and I take pleasure in knowing I'm over the half way mark.

 

Paying an extra £3,251.92 for a £5,000 loan is a valuable lesson. One I've learnt the hard way (as I'm sure many others have).

[Scooby_Doo2]

Yesterday I received my Credit Agreement, so that answers my request under the CCA 1974.

 

I can't believe what I signed back then (and I quote).

 

 

 

Will be rid of them on 18th August 2009. I am crossing each payment off my calander, and I take pleasure in knowing I'm over the half way mark.

 

Paying an extra £3,251.92 for a £5,000 loan is a valuable lesson. One I've learnt the hard way (as I'm sure many others have).

 

If you have maintained a good credit history, I would suggest you get a settlement figure from HFC and get a quote from another company over the same period of time (or shorter if you can afford it). It won't be hard to find an APR below 27.4%!!

 

Also, you repayments would be cheaper if you took the loan without PPI. I personally feel PPI is way to over-priced for the benefit it provides.

 

If you carry on paying your loan back to HFC, you are contributing to their profits (and the whopping bonuses they pay the branch staff, managers etc).

 

You could probably knock 3-4 months off the 15 months you've got left if you re-finance. Would you prefer to have the money in your pocket or HFC's??

[trevor33]

CERTAINLY NOT THE LOCAL BRANCH NEVER

 

THEY WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS ABOUT

I sent a CCA request to my local HFC (Beneficial Finance) and the 40 days is now up. I have not had any reply whatsoever. Does this mean that I have to start all over by sending CCA to head office??????

[121o121]

Hi Trevor

 

Did you send them recorded or special delivery? Can you see whether your £1 cheque has been cashed?

[121o121]

They've just called me again. I'm gonna write a letter to the branch asking them to stop contacting me regarding their products / services and ask them to remove my telephone number from their records.

[trevor33]

Hi 121o121

I sent recorded and have proof.

I heard from HFC Birmingham last week. They included a form to fill in and return. They wanted my DOB, my full name AND driving licence or passport.

I did not fill it in but sent them a default notice instead.

No they have still not cashed my cheque but they asked for £10 payment in the letter with form.

[surprise]

121o121 - hope you don't mind me butting in, but are there no repayment figures on your agreement. If not then it may unenforceable but you need to ask those in the know. I'm pretty sure it should have the number of payments and the payment rate and the date of payment. Maybe well worth checking out. This is why they may keep calling you.

Trevor 33 - sounds as if they haven't got an agreement for you.