Bt Late Payment Charge Fight

[denver]

I've had enough of this. I have paid the £5 late charge on, bar one, every bill since it was introduced. Being late once tends to produce a domino effect (well, it does with me anyway).

The "reminder" letter does not, apparently, incur the charge. Pay after that and no charge will be applied. At some mystical date after the "reminder" has been sent out (and you still haven't paid) then the charge is added to your next bill . Nothing else has happend since the "reminder" so the £5 "admin" charge covers NO admin. I've just been told this by BT. So I told them it's therefore an unenforcable penalty charge.

The dates also vary wildly - they've just admitted it. Recently, after allowing for the crap postal service, I have had about 10 days from receipt of initial bill to the £5 charge being applied. In anyone's eyes that has got to be wrong - and don't forget the bill is for 3 months service I haven't even had yet, not the previous quarter.

Here are the 4 example bills.

 

Bill 01/02/06 Rem. 15/02/06 Charge 26/02/06

Bill 01/05/06 Rem. 15/05/06 paid

Bill 01/08/06 Rem. 08/08/06 Charge 18/08/06

Bill 01/11/06 Rem. 08/11/06 Charge 19/11/06

 

It only adds up to £35 with the others but that's my £35.

They've given me all the dates over the 'phone so off goes the first letter.

[buzby]

There's nothing preventing you that your challenge their right to make the Charge under consumer law, and request that it be credited to your account. If the do not, your recours is either to pay up on time and pay the charges, or take htem to court for the amount charged and have them justify the fee to a judge.

[denver]

Just had a response from my initial letter asking for the charges back. Usual crap that we're used to with the banks. The woman ended the letter with "I will now be closing this matter".

Well I won't.

Letter before action has been sent.

[buzby]

Quite right! Good for you. keep us posted!

[robbo666]

I like your thinking, Keep us updated.

[kecimot]

Hi

it seems to be really interesting for me anyway

I had lots of this lately, maybe I will have a go as well.

Keep us posted. Thanks

[buzby]

As a point of information - British Gas has announced it will NOT implement its Late Payment fee and has abandoned its plans to do so. I'd like to think this will have ramifications for other firms that try this on.

[Bookworm]

Have they now... I wonder what made them change their minds... Couldn't be the mass exodus of customers ripped-off by the price hike/freeze/drop, could it? The late payment fee could have been the legendary straw that broke the camel's back...

[buzby]

I'd love to think so - but I thought they offered the worse Customer Services so I left them years ago. Be nice to think that Consumer Power worked to our advantage for once!

[[email protected]]

You have my wholehearted support for your battle with BT. I have a similar story dating bak to 2005. If anybody wants to hear it I'll quite happily provide all info. Suffice to say I delayed paying my Phone bill until they had sent me a copy of the February 2005 Upgrade Mag. I had a question regarding when the Surftime hours changed. I wrote, emailed, phoned, emailed, wrote etc, etc. I said I wouldn't pay my bill until I had a copy of the mag in question and an explanation of their charging policy/change regarding Surftime. I had various explanations, mostly unintelligible as they came from the 'Southern Hemisphere'. Suffice to say I sent two letters to Jillian G. Lewis, Customer Services Director. They were both sent Recorded Delivery. Surprise, suprise NO REPLY.

 

PLEASE also be aware that as from 1st May 2007 BT will levy £4.50 per quarter (inc. vat) if you DON'T pay your bill monthly by direct debit or by monthly payment plan. (See BT Update mag for February 2007).

 

Whichever way you turn they're out to get you. I am actively looking to leave BT altogether as soon as I can.

[buzby]

You can NEVER leave BT (unless you live in Hull or a cabled area - the services you receive will be indirectly supplied by them, and as Sky and others point out when you complain about the imposition of late penalties or non-DD charges, the first response is everyone else is doing it! Well, I never read 'Update' they can stick it on my bill, and I'll pay as always directly to their bank account - less any fees they cannot justify. (Being asked how it costs them extra to process my payment that arrives in full to their bank account). Let battle commence!

[denver]

As I mentioned earlier, I had a response to my initial request for a refund of the late payment charges which just fell short of implyng that my late payments have resulted in various famines and the Iraq war. Anyone who doesn't pay their BT bill immediately is the **** of the earth. The writer (Mrs Jane Thompson) told me the "issue has been closed".

Well, that was dated 1/3/07.

I responded with a "letter before action" sent on 5/3/07.

Today (8/3/07) I have received a second letter dated 6/3/07, again from Mrs. Jane Thompson. She wouldn't yet have received my "letter before action". This one says that the "issue" has been sent to the complaints department and their procedure will be followed (some sort of never-ending maze presumably). The letter invites me to call a number if I want to "discuss this further" and trusts this "clarifies the situation".

Er....no!

 

Oh well, if no intelligable response by the 20th, the court action starts.

[PXR5]

Good for you Denver.

 

I wonder two things regarding this £5 charge...

 

How many poeple have managed to pay their bills any quicker as a result of this charge since it was introduced?

 

How much have BT made from all the £5 charges they slap on us?

 

regards. PXR5

[devandy]

I'm inclined to think that the same would apply to BT's £10 "Reconnection Fee". Does it really cost £10 for someone in BT's billing department to take their mouse and go "click!" on my account? Or perhaps it's even automated: when the outstanding balance is paid then I'm reconnected. Any BT employees fancy revealing any secrets?

 

Whatever, I'll give short odds BT wouldn't be too keen on justifying their charges to M'lud.

[kfdh1962]

Hi Dev,

interesting thread.only just picked up on this.

 

I took on the AA this year of a smilar issue with late payment charges on my car insurance. Initially they gave the usual fob offs stating the legilsation only applied to banks..

I started to quote the unfair terms and conditions in consumer cotracts, quoting specific sections and they paid up..£60.

I hope you get a similar result, will watch with interest...good luck:)

[PXR5]

I'm inclined to think that the same would apply to BT's £10 "Reconnection Fee". Does it really cost £10 for someone in BT's billing department to take their mouse and go "click!" on my account?

 

My last reconnection charge was £15! But to be fair, i am poor, and we all know BT like to charge the poor more for their service.

[devandy]

not as poor as me i'll bet!

[buzby]

Like the 'disconnection fee'? This invariably is computer controlled and often requires no human intervention either. Overdue Bill = restricted service!

[Odd Fellow]

When I first heard of the £5.00 late charge, ironically, I was late paying the bill. However the wording from BT was so wooly, I enclosed a letter refusing to pay it.

 

The basis was that BT "MAY" charge £5 if the payment was late. Bloody cheek, like I'm going to agree to it using its discretion as to whether it would try and make me pay more or not.

 

This latest penalty charge is something else and we need to get this profit making scheme stopped now.

 

I've produced a template complaint letter to BT. Please feel free to use it as you see fit.

 

BT Direct Debit Charges - Template Letter for BT's Unfair Charges

 

Odd

[andrew1]

Is there any BT worker on here who can tell us EXACTLY what the procedure ( I mean click of what switches) it takes to reconnect a telephone line when it's disconnected.)

 

Late Payment fees are unlawful unless they can be justified as a true cost. They are a penalty.

 

I refused to pay the last penalty on my bill with a £5 penalty. I just received a letter saying " If you pay your bill late, you are in breach of your contract with us. As a matter of general law, we are entitled to seek to recover the (reasonable) costs we incur as a result of that breach".

 

What is General law? are we talking common law matey? if so common law states you cannot charge a penalty that exceeds your liquidated loss.

 

The fact they charge in advance for rental means they got my money for three months longer than I'd like... who owes who?

 

 

If there is an engineer or someone who actually knows the exact process I'd be very pleased to hear from you.

 

Hallo again Bookie!

[Odd Fellow]

edit....

 

The fact they charge in advance for rental means they got my money for three months longer than I'd like... who owes who?

 

 

 

That's an interesting point and unless BT can justify this, I fear that a court might find in the consumer's favour.

 

It's also interesting that BT seems to be able to apply the charge when it likes in a billing cycle - it's not charged universally on X days of being late. Indeed, the late charge is in addition to the equally diaboloical £4.50 per quarter charge for those who aren't on Direct Debit.

 

My feeling is that BT is sailing VERY close to the wind on this.

[RichardM]

According to BT, the late charge is applied 10 days after the red letter is issued if payment has still not been received. Of course, that does not allow for any delay in receiving the red latter which, if there bills are anything to go by, are now taking up to 7 days to be delivered due to using TNT and Royal Mail last mile delivery services.

[denver]

Sorry I haven't updated for ages. I received a second letter from BT almost identical to the first.

I will be filing the court papers this Friday.

I will base it on similar wording to that used for bank charges since the principle is the same (i.e. charge is not a true reflection of the cost).

[andrew1]

Remember it's only £5. I'd just like to know what process they actually have to go through from some BT employee or ex employee, they usually have loads of ex's.

[denver]

Hi Andrew1,

I take your point about it only being £5 but they will have to justify it. I can't see it costing more than pence, if that. It probably involves no human intervention. Their system probably recognizes an unpaid bill on a certain date and the charge is automatically added.

As you say, it would be good to hear from an ex employee. I'm going to ask a mate's brother who worked in BT sales if he can help.

Whatever, it's worth possibly losing the £30 court fee to either get the money back or know where the court stands on this.