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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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wannagethelp vrs Lloyds ***WON***


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Good morning everyone,

 

I need help quickly,,,,,,,,I'm trying to complete my AQ and even though it looks easy it isnt, I'm confused:confused: ....I did look at the links I was advised but not sure about what to put as GaryH says something about a new one and you can put something on to stop ltsb asking for a month stay,,,,,,oh dear,,,,,,any advice,,,,,,shall I just follow the original format or the new one, getting stressed,,,,,,can i phone someone, ha ha......I don't seem to be able to absorb much lately,:rolleyes: but I just read nimo's thread and it was brilliant, I wanto to win, I will win!,,,,,,,but help

 

Alos, how do I get my costs back,,,,,do I haveto meniton it on my QA,,,I mean the court costs of £120 and AQ cost which is £100......?

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Hi wannagethelp,

 

firstly, dont panic, the piece you refer to is i assume this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/78216-important-info-regarding-stays.html which gives guidance as to what to put in section G/H (depending on which AQ you have N149 or N150) to stop lloyds applying for a stay to delay things as they seem to like doing. if i was going to use this i would probably go for the first bit as like GaryH says the second pat is very aggressive and i personally wouldnt use it on my Aq but atthe end of the day its your choice. the other part you need to include in my opinion is a draft order for directions see here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/57707-draft-order-allocation-questionnaires.html?highlight=draft+order+for+directions and there is also guidance here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html regarding AQs

 

if you are still stuck then let us know what part is causing you the probs and someone will try to help you out

 

 

regards

paul

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Hello,

 

This is going to sound really like I'm really thick,,,,I don't understand the QA thing,,,I've got up to the G section of my N149 and have drafted up the bit from GaryH about asking to set aside the stay of a month, but I dont understand waht esle to put,,,,,,,I dont reocnise the new AQ (or the old one for that matter),,,,,so I'm totally stuck,,,,,to nervuos to actually fill that bit in.......

 

The template saying

 

xxxxxx claimnat

v

xxxx defendant

 

 

blah blah

 

I s not on my N19...........can anybody tell me what actually to put before I put the bit from GaryH about the stay......

 

please be patient,,,,,,its the last bit (hopefully), and I'm really nervous and have to lend the money to pay for the blasted thing to add insult to injury.....:( :( Also, can anybody tell me how they ask or get the costs back already paid for e.i. £120 moneyclaim and this £100 AQ fee?

 

Thank you

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Don't panic, just take your time and everything will become clear.

 

I suggest, as Paul said, that you attach the draft direction to your AQ to propose to the judge. This would mean, if the judge agree's it, that Lloyds would be on a very strict deadline to disclose the true costs of their charging systems. Guess what? They won't. They'll pay instead.

 

You can also incorperate into section G your objection to a months stay.

 

All you need to do is print off this;

You -v- Bank Plc

Claim No:*******

 

 

 

N149 Allocation Questionnaire

 

 

 

Section G - other information

 

1. If the court is in agreement, the Claimant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The Claimant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

- The actual loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a contractual service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is incumbent upon it to disclose such information.

 

Additionally, the Claimant is aware that the proposed directions are now routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Willesden and Mansfield County Courts.

 

2. As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

3. The Claimant is aware that the defendant is now routinely requesting a stay in proceedings in claims of this nature, by indicating an intention to negotiate a settlement in section A of their allocation questionnaire.

 

The claimant is strongly opposed to such a stay, upon the basis that the defendant, both during and prior to this litigation, has rebutted or ignored all prior attempts by the claimant to narrow the issues in dispute, or otherwise engage in meaningful dialogue which may have facilitated an amicable settlement to these matters.

 

It is submitted that the request by the defendant is highly likely to be an attempt to further frustrate and delay proceedings, and the pattern of settled cases so far would strongly suggest that the defendant does not intend to settle these matters until a hearing date is imminent.

 

Accordingly, the claimant respectfully requests that any such request by the defendant is turned aside.

 

And this -

 

In the XXXXXX County Court

Claim number XXXXXX

 

 

 

 

 

 

Between

 

 

XXXXXXXX - Claimant

 

 

and

 

 

 

XXXXX - Defendant

 

 

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

 

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

  • a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

  • b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

  • c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

  • d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

  • a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

  • b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

  • c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

  • d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

  • e) Any witness statements.

  • f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

Attach both these sheets to your AQ.

 

Then in the actual 'section G' box of the AQ, write this;

 

Please find the following attached to this allocation questionnaire;

 

1) Section G - other information

2) Draft order for directions

 

This allocation questionnaire and its attachments were sent to the defendant on **/**/**.

Ok?

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Good Morning Gary,

 

Was watching my inbox waiting for someone to reply,,,,:) right, that is really helpful and clear, so do I add the bit about the month stay on the sheet or type it up and attach it?

 

Also, how do I ask for my costs back?

 

Errrrr, do I find those pages you showed me here or do I look somewhere else so I can print them off?

 

Thanks again,,,,

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The bit about the months stay is numbered as 3. on the same page as the request for the draft order.

 

You should copy and paste each page into word so as you can print them off.

 

Left-click at the start of the text, hold the button down and drag it over all of the text so as its highlighted in blue. Then right-click and choose 'copy'.

 

Then open up word for windows, right-click again on the blank screen and choose paste - voi-la!

 

Do the same with the second page and print each one off. So then you'll have 2 seperate sheets to attach to the AQ, and you should write this in the actual 'section' G box on the AQ itself -

Please find the following attached to this allocation questionnaire;

 

1) Section G - other information

2) Draft order for directions

 

This allocation questionnaire and its attachments were sent to the defendant on **/**/**.

 

The £100 fee is only payable if your claim is over £1500 - if not there is no fee. If your claim is over £1500 and you have to pay the fee, you'll get it back automatically in settlement or upon judgement - as you will the MCOL fee. No need to request it on the AQ.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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oh dear,,,,,,,,,cant do it........can highlight and so the bits are blue but when I right click to copy it just gives me the option of select all and the highlighs dissaprears and it just selects/copies everything and it wont paste even onto my word page (it says something about outside it) ......I'm using my laptop doe that make a difference,,,,no mouse just buttons

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PM me your e-mail address and I will send the pages to you as attachments. All you'll need to do then is fill in your personal details and print them off.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Right, that's it,,,,,,been to the court today, qued for ages and paid my £100 for my AQ and enclosed the section G notes and Draft thingy as advised by GaryH (thank you),,,,,then went to the post office, qued again, and recorded delivery'd my copy of AQ and G notes and Draft, (that is all you have to send to SCM snt it?,,,,and so now do I just wait?

 

Must admit, although extremely skint, will have to eat beans the rest of the month, I do feel relieved that bits done:)

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Right, that's it,,,,,,been to the court today, qued for ages and paid my £100 for my AQ and enclosed the section G notes and Draft thingy as advised by GaryH (thank you),,,,,then went to the post office, qued again, and recorded delivery'd my copy of AQ and G notes and Draft, (that is all you have to send to SCM snt it?,,,,and so now do I just wait?

 

Must admit, although extremely skint, will have to eat beans the rest of the month, I do feel relieved that bits done:)

 

Hi everyone,

 

Is there anyone out there who is at my stage with LTSB or even better, a little in front or won even,,,,,,,,,,,I need some light at the end of this tunnel I'm in,,,,,extremely skint and trying to stay hopeful:)

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Thanks for your quick reply,,,,,,,have been searching the site looking for anybody who is at this stage, or just in front,,,,,,,,can't seem to find one,,,,:(

 

So,,,,,anybody reading this and applies......please post so I can read your thread,,,,,thanks in advance

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I am at the same stage but our directions were that the AQ was to be dispensed with. Think we filed our MCOL on 9th March.

  • Haha 1

Please note that I am not a legal expert and all advice given is without prejudice and is purely my opinion only.

 

** Nationwide - £1821.15-PAID IN FULL - Aug 06 **

** Halifax Mortgage -£390 - PAID IN FULL - Nov 06 **

Lloyds TSB - MCOL issued 09/03/07 - £2953 + costs - ON HOLD....

 

 

 

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im a little behind you as lloyds have just acknowledged my claim, dont worry though as you are more or less on the home straight now,if my memory serves me correctly, you will soon get a court date from your court along with any directions ordered by the judge. its basically a waiting game from that point on for lloyds solicitors to get in touch and discuss a settlement. if you want to read other peoples success stories then go to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/

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Yep, don't panic - this is perfectly standard as far as Lloyds claims go. See pt2523's post above.:)

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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:( Sorry everyone,,,,,,just soooooo, skint and wish they would reply at least to my AQ,,,,,,,,,just knowing they have to pay me this money and I'm sitting here worrying if my phone line is going to be cut off and then I wont even be able to read this site for support,,,,,,,I'll just have to :) and bear it eh? These banks have so much to answer for eh?
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dont worry, youre on the home straight now.from what i have read lloyds have started paying out atthe AQ stage in some claims although i dont want to get your hopes up you never know. one thing is for sure, as long as you have followed the proceedures laid out on this website you will get your money back

 

im sure you will hear something soon

good luck,

 

 

regards

paul

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Go to the top of the thread and click on "thread tools", then click on "subscribe"

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Thanks for the help with subscribing:)

 

Just to update,,,,,,phoned court yesterday who stated my papers were with the judge for direction......and so am now waiting for my court date,,,,should I have asked if they (SCM) asked for, or got a stay? I know the court have received their AQ.

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You should have asked, but it is probably a bit too late now as the papers are going before the judge. If SCM have asked for a stay it is likely the judge will allow it.

 

I went through all this stay nonsense, but it turned in my favour; eventually, see my post 58 on wards below:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/47207-guido-t-lloyds-tsb-3.html

If I have been helpful please click on my star and add a comment.

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Hello,

 

I've received a letter from SC&M, well 2 actually,,,,,,,but I'm not sure what to do,,,,,,,1 letter says they are going to defend and the other letter, says the same thing on one page but think it means I've won,,,on the other page,,,,,can a mod please contact me please,,,,,don't know how to proceed.

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What does the leter say ?

Nobody can help if you dont let us know.

:rolleyes:

If I have been helpful, PLEASE click the scales

 

 

You may receive differing advice as people have had different experiences. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I offer is done so informally, without prejudice & without liability.

 

 

I WON !!!!

 

 

HERE WE GO AGAIN .... BRING IT ON

 

:D

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Hello everyone,,,,,,think I've won but just a quick question........is it the norm they, SCM, ask you sign the bottom of the letter and return it to them and to contact the court to tell them of full settlement (including court costs and interest I might add,,,,,,before they deposit the monies...:confused: Just, I dont want to get this far and get conned:(

 

Anyone????

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