Re: Assignment of debts to DCA's

[tamadus]

Thanks very much for that tamadus and good luck with your challenge on this matter.

 

The thing I have a problem with is where members are saying that they have been defaulted by a DCA when a creditor has already previously defaulted them (and this first entry may or may not have been removed).

 

My understanding is that the DCA's are entering the date of default as the date they file their notice with the CRA which can often be several years after the original one was filed by the creditor. This means that a default could literally run on for years, especially, as remarked upon by another poster above, these debts sometimes get sold on more than once.

 

A prime example is my hubby's case - he had an old debt with barclaycard which was defaulted in 1998. This was then sold to Robinson Way, to whom he continued making payments until 2002 then stopped (some debt still owing).

 

The creditor's default dropped off the CRA files after the 6 years had past i.e. 2004. But if DCA's are effectively re-registering defaults then he could have had one filed by Robinson Way and now again recently by Lowell Financial who have just tracked him down after a further 4 years. We have not responded yet to Lowell but have also not yet checked the CRA files for new defaults for the same debt. The webpage link below supports my argument that there can only be one default per debt EVER - not just at any one time!

 

Can you have a read and see what you think please?

 

Many thanks, Pam

 

Caledonian Express, UK - Credit, Loans and Banking : Mortgages, Remortgages, Loans (secured and unsecured), Car Finance, Credit Cards, Bank Accounts

 

That article certainly says only 1 default ever. What really interested me though was the bit about the default date must not post date a court order (CCJ or Bankruptcy).

 

Have you guys found yet another can of worms lol?

 

Looks like a bit of reading of the DPA is overdue.

[InKogneeToh]

The copy of agreement has to of the EXECUTED agreement, i.e. the actual one you signed. It does not have to show the signature box but it has to show all other details relevant to your actual transaction i.e. the date of the agreement, the amount of credit and the total charge for the credit (or how it was to be calculated plus the interest rate (applicable at that time).

 

I would write to Studio again and tell them the 'sample' copy they have provided does not fulfil the requirements of the CCA as requested. Remind them that the clock is still ticking, that the debt is unenforceable unless the correct copy is supplied and that if the 12 + 30 day time limit is exceeded you will be reporting them to the relevant authorities.

 

Tell them that you will accept nothing less than a SIGNED original copy of the agreement as proof that the debt exists and that until that happens you do not acknowledge the debt.

 

Regards, Pam

[tifo]

A prime example is my hubby's case - he had an old debt with barclaycard which was defaulted in 1998. This was then sold to Robinson Way, to whom he continued making payments until 2002 then stopped (some debt still owing).

 

But if DCA's are effectively re-registering defaults then he could have had one filed by Robinson Way and now again recently by Lowell Financial who have just tracked him down after a further 4 years.

 

Pam,

 

interestingly, Robinson, Way & Company ltd are not registered with the information commissioners office as a data protection controller (i just checked again). You can check yourself here

Information Commissioners - Data Protection Public Register

but, they seem to be part of London Scottish Bank plc who are registered. this is them at Companies House

WebCHeck - Select and Access Company Information

however, as they are a separate Ltd company they would need to also register as a data controller. Maybe your husband can even get back the money he's paid!

 

this means they have no right using your personal information and whoever sold them the debt or passed on details are also 'in league' by passing on your info without asking you and also to someone who is not registered. This is a very serious issue for them.

 

seek more advice from the forum but you can have a good go at them by using the data protection act, as well as Lowell now who are chasing.

[InKogneeToh]

[quote=tamadus;

Have you guys found yet another can of worms lol?

 

Oh, I certainly do hope so!!!

 

Have I earned another green blob yet - it's my favourite colour!!

 

Regards, Pam

[tamadus]

Oh, I certainly do hope so!!!

 

Have I earned another green blob yet - it's my favourite colour!!

 

Regards, Pam

 

so Many worms around here we should all go fishing

 

Those green blobs dont come easy lol

[andrew1]

take a read through tberns vs cabot and the cabot threads also capquest. tbern and another Debtmountain have legal cases coming up for all kinds of connotations of what you are talking about here. There's even (somewhere) a thread talking about the Law of property transfer posted after seeing quotes from the MD of cabot Ken Maynard (although if you are searching it is section 136 of the Act not 139 as he stated) stating their right to ownership of the whole package of debt and agreement. All makes interesting reading, it's a great debate because there are some interesting issues you have touched on and which others have gone over too on other threads.

 

I am also of the opinion that the agreement they hold and send you does not have to be signed under the CCA. BUT they wouldn't get through court without one, so if they have it for court they should have it for us.

[InKogneeToh]

Hi Andrew

 

Thanks for that. I did read some of these threads a few days ago but will go back for an update.

 

Cheers, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

Hi all

 

Right - My hubby has just received threats of court action from from Hampton Legal in relation to the debt that Lowell Financial claim he owes them (Hampton Legal is a 'trading style of LF).

 

We have decided to respond to them now and so I've drafted the following letter.

 

Any observations, advice, comments before I send it off?

 

Regards Pam

 

 

 

"Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

Request for information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 – Sections 77/78

 

Further to your letter of ...............in which you claim to have purchased a debt allegedly owed by me to Barclaycard, I am hereby requesting a true copy of the executed credit agreement that relates to this debt.

 

 

Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a truecopy of this executed credit agreement and hereby enclose a payment of £1.00, being the fee payable under that Act. I understand that this document must be supplied within 12 working days.

 

 

Please note that I do not acknowledge any debt to your company unless, or until, a true copy of the signed executed agreement is sent to me, together with proof that the alleged debt has been legally assigned to yourselves.

 

 

Further, I note that you have passed this debt to another company within the group i.e. Lowell Financial Ltd for the purposes of collection and have therefore supplied this company with my personal data.

 

 

If this alleged debt has been legally assigned to you then I understand that any personal data relevant to the credit agreement allegedly entered into may also be passed to you provided that the borrower's authority was obtained in the original agreement. Until I have sight of that document I cannot confirm that I have given your company any authority to process such data.

 

 

Even if such authority is subsequently shown to exist in relation to you company, you have certainly NOT requested and I have NOT given any permission for my personal data to be passed to or shared with Lowell Financial Ltd (an entirely separate company).

 

 

I shall therefore be writing to Lowell Financial Ltd very shortly to request that they cease and desist from processing my data immediately.

 

 

Please note that any sharing or processing of data without the authority of the data subject contravenes the Data Protection Act and if this persists I will report both Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd and Lowell Financial Ltd to the relevant authorities, including but not limited to Trading Standards, The Office of Fair Trading and the Information Commissioners Office.

 

 

I look forward to receiving the requested document and your response to the Data Protection Act issues at your earliest convenience.

 

 

Blah Blah

[InKogneeToh]

P.S. I haven't mentioned the 30 day bit or implications of either of the time limits - why should I help them protect themselves!

 

If they don't know what duties or penalties the CCA/DPA confers on them in any given circumstances then they shouldn't be taking on these debts in the first place!

 

Regards, Pam

[andrew1]

Sorry if I'm missing the point here Pam, but who are you writing to?

[tifo]

i assume she is writing to Robinson Way (who themselves are not registered under the DPA) and then to Lowell to 'cease and desist'.

[Laiste]

Hi 1706,

 

The one thing I would omit from your letter is the "I understand" part. I personally would never put anything in a letter that suggests you may be not entirely sure of what the legal position is and the expression, I understand does not convey certainty in my opinion.

 

As a further point on CCA requests, I have never in the 10 that I've sent, ever advised any of the Companies of the compliance period(12 w.days and 1 mnth), why put them in the picture? The CCA 1974 governs credit agreements and if they cannot be bothered to familiarise themselves with the law, that's their lookout! Don't make it easy for them!

 

Finally on this point, I've seen a number of people post comments stating that they had, or intended to remind a Company that their compliance period was nearly up! Absolute madness! You must NEVER do this! At the very least, the debt will be unenforceable for the number of months they don't comply and who knows they might not be able to find it at all, and it's goodnight vienna if that happens! As I have said before, this is all about tactics and is akin to a game of poker, for goodness sake don't show them your hand! Remember what they can't prove they can't enforce!

 

Do as I do, sit back, let the CCA request timescale pass for mnths if you're feeling brave and can cope with the letters and calls. I've left mine with LTSB for 7mnths! In that time about 4 or 5 DCA's have chased me, even though the a/c was in dispute. So I now have a very big dossier against all these Companies as well as LTSB, for harassment and other issues. My patience has paid off, by simply sitting back and watching, they have all convicted themselves by their actions! Oh and the c/c held with LTSB hasn't been paid since Jan 06. Don't get into a mad panic to get these matters sorted out, waiting really can pay off!

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.

[PriorityOne]

Laiste... you are an inspiration at times...

[InKogneeToh]

Hi all

 

Firstly Laiste, thanks a lot for your comments, I will amend where necessary.

 

Sorry to cause confusion about this matter - the letter is being sent to Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd (part of a group) who have written recently saying they have been assigned a debt formerly owing to Barclaycard.

 

I thought it had previously been with Robinson Way but on checking my hubby's old paperwork I see it was a company called Debt Collection Services (apparently part of the Lewis Group). I have started another thread to try and get any info on this company - particularly if they were registered for DP purposes at that time.

 

Anyway Lowell Porttfolio 1 Ltd state that they have passed the account to their 'appointed duly authorised' collection agents Lowell Financial Ltd (same group, separate limited company)

 

I am following fellow member tbern's excellent example as per his dealings with Cabot and am taking the Lowell family to task regarding the data protection issues.

 

Regards, Pam

[tifo]

I am following fellow member tbern's excellent example as per his dealings with Cabot and am taking the Lowell family to task regarding the data protection issues.

 

I also have 2 accounts with Cabot and now 2 accounts with Lowell, do you think i should also take them to task on this data protection issue?

 

What do you think we will achieve by doing this?

[Laiste]

Ah shucks Priority, you're making me blush!

 

I don't think I'm worthy of such high praise, but I really hope my experiences help others. There's no point in having knowledge if you don't share it!

 

Laiste.

[InKogneeToh]

Hi tifo

 

With regard to Cabot, I recommend you read tbern123's excellent thread below.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/36665-cabot-again-urgent-help.html

 

It's a fascinating read and if your situation is/will become similar then I'm sure there is a lot to help you there.

 

Yes, I do think you should do the same. Lowell inc. are committing offences under the DPA by sharing my personal date without my consent and there is recourse available to the data subject through the courts if desired.

 

If you wait a bit longer re: Lowells then you can follow my experience with them on this thread.

 

Regards, Pam

[andrew1]

My only warning to you on following the Cabot example is that they are a myriad of companies and you need to plan carefully. Lowell don't sound much different from Cabot, but just make sure you are following the right trails. Think carefully about the transition of data from the source of the debt, what rights assigning the debt pass with it to the DCA, who the DCA have within their group of companies, whether they are seperate companies ie: Limited companies and who is registered with the Information Commissioners as the Data Controller. A considerable amount of work has gone on behind the scenes by a few of us stripping all the Cabot group apart in order that tbern, debtmountain and a few more of us could get this far. What we have found is an ignorance by those that run the company of the legislation and how moving our data from one to the other just so they can show they have 'passed it to our management company or legal company' makes them look efficient. Their staff haven't a clue yet boast of receiving healthy bonuses. That should tell you something about how much they make out of the 'easy picking' debtors. tbern has worked relentlessly to put a case together and it has not been easy, so pull together, pool your resources and get yourself equipped with the right information, then take them on so as not to make a mistake. The DCA's will find everywhichwaypossible to throw you off track and they will be watching this forum too, just as Cabot do ( hallo Mr Maynard! ).

 

Follow our threads carefully, if you need additional ammo it can be found but research what you are doing, new things crop up all the time and we monitor everything Cabot do from inside and out - say no more!

[InKogneeToh]

Hi Andrew1,

 

Thanks for your advice - I'll keep checking the relevant threads and I for one am very grateful to you all for the huge amount of work already done on this subject.

 

Power to the People has been a long time coming!

 

Regards, Pam

[lookinforinfo]

Pam, I couldn't find the other thread you were referring to about looking into

Debt Collection Services-if this is the one, they appear to have first registered with the ICO

back in 2003. I will have a look after lunch to see if they maybe changed their name then, since 2003 is a bit late.

 

Registration Number: Z8065106

 

Date Registered: 23 July 2003 Registration Expires: 22 July 2007

 

Data Controller: DEBT COLLECTION SERVICES UK LTD

 

 

 

Address:

CAXTON HOUSE

1 QUEEN STREET

MIRFIELD

WEST YORKSHIRE

WF14 8AH

[tifo]

thanks andrew1,

 

i know there is a lot of research behind the disputes, so am prepared to gain as much knowledge as i can, for ammo, before i proceed.

 

not only Cabot or Lowell, but a lot of the major DCA's have a myriad of companies that pass on personal info between them.

 

The common thing seems to be that one buys all the debts but another one manages it. The default shows from the buyer, but the manager chases us up.

[andrew1]

thanks andrew1,

 

The common thing seems to be that one buys all the debts but another one manages it. The default shows from the buyer, but the manager chases us up.

 

.....and the buyer does not either ask you if they can process your data as required under the DPA, have the supporting documentation and duly signed regulated agreement between the debtor and creditor as required under the CCA, chases and harrasses debtors without said information which also breaks the law, register the defaults at the very same time as they buy the debt and should not UNLESS they have entered into an arrangement with the debtor to make payments, add interest when the same arrangement needs to be in place etc...etc...etc... They break the laws in so many ways and their staff actually belive they are right. Big Mistake !

[InKogneeToh]

Hi all

 

Just letting you know that 'the artist formerly known as' 1706bp89 has now changed her name to InKogneeToh

 

What d'ya think?

 

Regards, Pam

[andrew1]

Hi all

 

Just letting you know that 'the artist formerly known as' 1706bp89 has now changed her name to InKogneeToh

 

What d'ya think?

 

Regards, Pam

 

I thought it was damned funny the way you spelt it!

[Guest The Terminator]

Hi all

 

Just letting you know that 'the artist formerly known as' 1706bp89 has now changed her name to InKogneeToh

 

What d'ya think?

 

Regards, Pam

 

I was going to change my name to The Mercenarie but everyone knows me as The Terminator