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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Mike vs Natwest


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Or maybe it should read Natwest vs Mike! I had a Natwest account for about 6 years (current account with £1000 o/d and loan for £13000). I was made redundant 18 months ago and had major surgery and haven't been able to work since, so am therefore on benefits. My loan was insured but as I was not claiming benefits at the time I could not claim on it. Natwest are now caliming over £2500 for the o/d and £17,500 for the loan,( I assume the increase is due to bank charges and interest) I had been in discussion with them but their answer was to take me to court. I am not disputing that I owe them money the dispute is around the amount. I have now received a A/Q from the court and dont know what to do next. Any ideas?. My one thought is to ask for a list of charges etc and claim these back, can I do this now it is a 'court stage'?

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sorry Mike i don't know this one, but i will bump you back up to the top, then someone else might answer you.

NW (NO 1) ACC

REC'D FULL SETTLEMENT 5/01/07 :)

 

NW (NO2) ACC

REC'D FULL SETTLEMENT 28/12/06 :lol:

 

NW (JOINT) ACC

MCOL STAGE AS WE SPEAK :-|

Court date 23rd May(bring it on!!!!)

Paid up 3 wks before court date - all done & dusted ( for now lol)

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Hi Mike, these insurances are not entirely good as they are sold people should be sued over this for mis-selling an mis-leading you. First lodge a dispute today, make a note of time, date and who you spoke to. Say something like "i am disputing the amount of charges as you feel they are unlawful and contavene the office of fair trading ruling of april 2006"... or something like that. Follow up with a letter straight away, something like this:-

 

24th November 2006

 

Account No. 011xxxxxx

Sort. 30-1x-0x

 

Dear Ms Bank Person,

 

I would like to draw your attention to the over excessive penalty charges incurring on my account due to returned Direct Debits and Standing Orders. Bank charges are not legally enforceable if they are penalties. Penalty clauses in contracts in English (and Scottish) law for breach of contract are not legal if the penalty exceeds the actual cost of the breach of either party. I believe this is also a breach of the 1999 Consumer Credit Act (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) also I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

I am disappointed with the way you have operated my account, I assumed you would operate my account within the boundaries of the law, never did I once think you would take monies from my account unlawfully. I do recall being refused help by you, only to find that whilst my business was struggling you would line the banks coffers at my expense. Your charges have left me at times in severe financial difficulties, this has caused me immense stress and suffering. In the event of a court case I will draw this letter to the attention of the court.

 

I trust you will respond in a positive fashion not with a standard letter and in way that will not prolong this situation any further

 

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

Mike

 

 

 

My manager phoned me straight away so something aroused their interest??.

 

 

 

Once you dispute a debt most judges steer clear of these as you have acknowledged part debt so deemed to be trying to resolve this......phone calls are'nt effective evidence to give to a court, good old pen to paper from know on.

 

Get this letter in the post today if you can recorded delivery, if not first class but follow up with a call after 2 days.

 

 

 

Then send off the DPA Letter ( data protection act) then a prelim letter, then LBA letter (letter before action) then MCOL (money claims on line)

 

 

 

Cheers Kev

 

 

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Hi mike,

dont wait for a reply to to your first letter as their reply will be a fob off, basically telling you that everything is Kosha with the way they trade and you are useless as a customer. Follow this link and post this off say tomorrow.

 

data-protection-act.html

 

Keep me posted, Cheers Kev

 

 

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Letter to Natwest sent on 3rd requesting statements, delivered and signed for yesterday, followed it up with phone call, have been assured statements will arrive within 4 - 5 working days. Time will tell.

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Well done mike, yes time will tell, but the the ball is rolling. Once you get your statements you need this template:

http:interest-calculation-spreadsheets.html

 

I Used the "England-simple-excel" version!

 

And this letter:

http:letter-preliminary-approach.html

 

 

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good luck mike i got my 1st & 2ns accounts paid in full today - how good is that eh!!!

xx

 

It pays to chase them

 

x

NW (NO 1) ACC

REC'D FULL SETTLEMENT 5/01/07 :)

 

NW (NO2) ACC

REC'D FULL SETTLEMENT 28/12/06 :lol:

 

NW (JOINT) ACC

MCOL STAGE AS WE SPEAK :-|

Court date 23rd May(bring it on!!!!)

Paid up 3 wks before court date - all done & dusted ( for now lol)

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Received letter from Natwest's solicitors (Green and Co) today, basically demanding I drop my counter claim for bank charges etc, and stating that as they have no record of any requests for an insurance claim pack (my loan was insured) they are demanding I drop that one as well. Seeing as how I have the calim pack in my possession I am not even going to reply. I am waiting for my account details then just file the allocation questionaire at the court, along with deatils of the excessive charges etc, and send them (Green and Co) a copy of it as well. Bugger them, they have had me by the b...s (apologies to any ladies reading this!)long enough, its time to squeeze theirs.

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Guest NATTIE

Mike- can I clarify something as I am a bit uneasy on this thread, did you put a claim in for the PPI at the time? If so what was the result? If not why did you not do so?

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So regardless of not filing your claim, whats their problem then???, I think as long as you have a justifiable reason to not follow your insuarnce claim this should not stop you from claiming your bank charges. The solicitors know the law this does not make them the law, carry on with your claim and time scales.

 

 

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Guest NATTIE

Webb- I read something that was not there which was for the clarification. I re read the thread a few times after I had a reply from mike. Apologies for slight diversion from the advice already given.

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Quote: "So regardless of not filing your claim, whats their problem then???"

 

Hi natweststaffmember, the above quote was intended at the solicitors. They make me mad as hell, they are people that run a business that specialise in a particular field, like a Chef, Mechanic or any other proffession what makes them so special....nothing at all. They cant demand nothing without the relevent legal documents to back themselves up. so their demands to mike quite rightly should fall on deaf ears unless they have a court order that prohibits him in pursuing his case. There is absolutely no cause to apologise my friend...keep up the good work

 

 

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Hi all, thanks to everyone for the support and the 'questioning' of my tactics. The advice and constructive critiscm is most welcome. As you may have gathered I feel very strongly about this for a few reasons, first and foremost is the amount of bank charges and interest applied to my accounts even after I had explained my situation to Natwest. ie. Being unemployed, having major reconstructive surgery (which - and I am not looking for sympathy here - did not work and I am therefore unlikely to work again). I think the one of the major reasons is the callous way I have been treated by the bank, they appear to think they are untouchable and a letter from their solicitors will make me go away. I am not and will take and defend my case all the way.

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Yes I am at the AQ stage and haven't as yet completed the forms, I am waiting for my statements from Natwest so that I can show and detail exact amounts. I have until the 15/1/2007 to file my AQ at the courts. Natwest appear to have filed theirs, they sent me copies, along with solicitors letter yesterday.

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I am defending part of the claim, that which is made up of bank charges and interest it amounts to over £6000, but will only know the exact figure once I am in receipt of statement setc.

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Hopefully you are now on benefits, so what about that Insurance claim for the rest of the loan amount. If you havent done it already get those claim forms filled in.

If You are on benefits you must read this

 

Social Security Administration Act 1992

Miscellaneous

Certain benefit to be inalienable **

 

187- Subject to the provisions of this Act, every assignment of, or charge on-

(a)benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;

(b)any income-related benefit; or

©child benefit,

and every agreement to assign or charge such benefit shall be void; and, on the bankruptcy of the beneficiary, such benefit shall not pass to any trustee or other person acting on behalf of his creditors

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Yes I am on benefits but as I haven't been able to pay anything on the loan for over 12 months I dont know where I stand. But saying that and seeing as how they are still charging me interest etc on the full amount (incliding insurance premiums) may be I could? Any ideas anyone?

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When Natwest told me it would take 3 - 5 days to send statements I thought it was a bit quick, I called them yesterday and was told it will now be 5 - 10 days - Now there's a surprise. As I have to file my AQ by 15/01/2007 I have now sent a letter to the court requesting an extension, I also attached the letter to the bank (requesting statements) and letter form solicitors where they demand I drop my defence. I shall wait patiently, although waiting and patiently are not words I am familiar with, lol.

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I'm afraid I dont know, but I'm sure someone does, could an application be made to the Court for the AQ to be delayed?

Reverting back to the question of an Insurance claim, personally I cant see why, even if weren't on benefits you shouldnt claim. I am sure that you can proove that you were ill and unable to work this is why you entered into the policy in the first place and that should be enough. Surely for all the proof you need for a small fee I think that the hospital will supply a copy of your notes if required and these should be sufficient for any Insurance company.

Is the insurance covered by a Nat west own policy? perhaps thats why they want you to pay and not themselves.

Maybe this is a good case that 'Watchdog' will want to hear about:evil:

If You are on benefits you must read this

 

Social Security Administration Act 1992

Miscellaneous

Certain benefit to be inalienable **

 

187- Subject to the provisions of this Act, every assignment of, or charge on-

(a)benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;

(b)any income-related benefit; or

©child benefit,

and every agreement to assign or charge such benefit shall be void; and, on the bankruptcy of the beneficiary, such benefit shall not pass to any trustee or other person acting on behalf of his creditors

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Just a quick update. Still haven't received statements even though they were promised. Have written to the court requesting an extension re:filing my QA, will hear from them tomorrow. As Natwets solicitors have asked for multi track, seeing as my debt to them is supposed to be over £20k I am going to do a 'Cobbets' on them and request info as per CPR 18. See how they like it.

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Good for you, now I hope you are thinking that you are not on your own anymore, make Cobblers do some proper work for their £200 per hour, and see if they like delaying tactics.

If You are on benefits you must read this

 

Social Security Administration Act 1992

Miscellaneous

Certain benefit to be inalienable **

 

187- Subject to the provisions of this Act, every assignment of, or charge on-

(a)benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;

(b)any income-related benefit; or

©child benefit,

and every agreement to assign or charge such benefit shall be void; and, on the bankruptcy of the beneficiary, such benefit shall not pass to any trustee or other person acting on behalf of his creditors

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