@ClinkardCars/Alphera/BMW Finance - 2022 car turned out crash damaged - FOS involved

[ImmyK]

Hi All

 

After a bit of advice to see where I stand. Bought a car in Sept 2022 on pcp. Been told it had a big inspection and was good to go.

Had many issues with it throughout the year including trims coming off the car and sunroof not closing.

 

While getting the sunroof repaired at month 12, in Sept 2023, the bodyshop guy said your cars been in a bad accident. Garage said it hasn't but offered to take the car back at half of what I paid for it as long as I buy a replacement from them before inspecting it (probably damage control) (car was £78k, said they'd offer £40k "trade in value" as if doing me a favour).

 

Ended up getting a forensic inspection done for £2400 in Dec 2023, confirmed car was in a bad smash (write off level but unrecorded on hpi) and potentially unsafe to drive - front end is slightly bent towards 1 side, what looks like a hairline crack on the chasis, overspray, bonner with patches of filler all over it, damaged rubbers etc

 

Raised complaint to finance company and few weeks ago to FOS... just wondering what people's experiences have been like going through the FOS, main thing that concerns me is that it was 12-13 months after I bought the car that I realised what caused these issues and raised the issue to the garage/ finance co but the damage/ misaligned panels are actually visible in the advert photos which I saved thankfully. 

 

Dealership has had my car for 4 weeks to let a few bodyshops look at it (without giving me a courtesy car!!!) Not giving me any updates either because I went to the FOS about it and didnt want to speak to them over the phone anymore as opposed to emails.

Note: hanging trim was reported within 3 months but due to part delays it didn't come until like July 2023, within 2 months the piece came off again, claimed under repairers warranty for another replacement 6 weeks ago and within 2 weeks this time the trim is coming off AGAIN (assuming it won't stay on due to the car being actually bent out of shape slightly)

 

Any idea if I have a good case or if there's anything else I can do?

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

Especially because you have bought the car on finance, there is probably quite a lot that you can do although it sounds as if you are maybe taking the appropriate steps anyway.

However you need to give as much more information.

We need to know – the name of the dealer
details of the vehicle, make, model, mileage, age, price paid – 70 8K?

The name of the finance company – and some dates. Date purchased, the date that you have logged this with the FOS and I'm sure there will be other questions.

I suppose that you don't understand your consumer rights very well because issues like the sunroof et cetera should have been repaired by the dealership and there was no need for you to spend your own money on this.

On the basis of what you have told us, I would suggest that eventually should be up to recover all of your money plus the expenses you have incurred in carrying out repairs.

And in fact – you could also list out the faults which have manifested themselves so far and the money you have spent on correcting those.

You are entitled to purchase a vehicle which is of satisfactory quality remains that way for a reasonable period of time. At £78,000 I wouldn't expect any serious issues to manifest themselves in this vehicle for quite a few years.

Tell us also about the £2400 inspection that you have had carried out. Were you advised to do this? To do this of your own initiative? Who carried it out?

That lot for a start

[ImmyK]

Hi thanks for your reply,

is it safe to name the dealership etc?

Lol just want to make sure as they seem to be annoyed that I've gone through the FOS anyway,

just don't want someone from here maybe contacting them as they've still got my car now nearly a month later 

[BankFodder]

If it wasn't safe I wouldn't ask you

[ImmyK]

Sorry just get worried that they will make my life harder than they already have lol

Bought the car around 12th Sept 2022 for £78,000 from clinkard cars.

Performance, Prestigious and Specialist cars in Romsey, Hampshire | Clinkard Performance Cars

WWW.CLINKARDCARS.CO.UK

---

Performance, Prestigious and Specialist cars Dealers in Romsey, Hampshire

Performance, Prestigious and Specialist cars in Romsey, Hampshire | Clinkard Performance Cars (clinkardcars.co.uk)

 

Was a 2019 Range Rover with 25k miles, £20k deposit at £750pm pcp over a 4 year period.

Finance company are alphera (bmw finance)

Car Finance, Vehicle & Motor Financing UK | ALPHERA Partner Hub

WWW.ALPHERA.CO.UK

---

Auto finance or motor insurance for new and used vehicles. ALPHERA Financial Services offers the best car finance options so you can get it...

spoke to them in October 2023 about the damage my bodyshop advised me of but they told me to deal with the dealership.

 

Paid for the repair myself as I was told the extended warranty I paid for (recommended through dealer) wouldn't cover it as it was an existing fault and not mechanical breakdown.

When I got the £40k offer from the dealership they still didn't want to get involved unless I got an independent inspection done.

Used Elite Forensic inspections as they seem highly rated online (more comprehensive than your average AA inspection).I just looked online for the best inspections for customers who have already purchased the car.

Their report was super comprehensive over 50 pages of text and photos. Comparisons to the advert photos against what the inspector saw made it clear that the damage was before I purchase it.

Got the report back 10th Jan 2024 and couldn't believe that they'd picked up the level of accident the car had been in and raised an official complaint through Alphera, they couldn't come to a decision with 8 weeks so raised with FOS around the 7th March 2024.

Small issues started within the first week of purchasing like ambient light not working on the side the car was hit and car randomly switching off completely when I'd stop at traffic lights/junctions.

Dealers eventually got this sorted which I appreciate, but doesn't change the fact that they didn't check the car as well as I'd been told it had been checked and they'd sold me an accident repaired car and initially tried to say all cars have had paint due to stone chips etc. Also turns out the car had only had 1 service before I serviced the car in mid 2023 (when the service light came on the car).

So far Clinkard have had my car for nearly a month (my wife and I have had no share cars since), they've said we've taken the car to 2x garages so far to inspect it and got 1 more garage to take it too.

Currently refusing to tell me what those 2 garages have said because you've gone through FOS we have to follow the correct channels and respond to the complaint through them which is quite annoying.

[BankFodder]

Thank you .

Please stand by for a reply later on

 

[ImmyK]

Thank you  

Just wanted to prepare myself mentally incase they pull out some rabbit out of a hat with these bodyshops as they will most likely be places they've used regularly in the past and over 150miles away from where I am.

[dx100uk]

thread title updated

[ImmyK]

Just now, dx100uk said:

thread title updated

Just to clarify it's a 2019 car that I bought in 2022

[BankFodder]

I think that we will still have to understand more of the details here. However, one of the first things that I notice is that I asked you questions about listing out the defects for which you had paid and how much you had paid to have them repaired – and I don't think you answered this.

In order to have processed this to the FOS, you will have had to have received a final response from the finance company. Please could you post up your PDF format.

You say that you paid some of this on finance – is it straight loan or is it hire purchase. I expect that it is an agreement under the consumer credit act – but maybe you would confirm this.

It's a shame that you didn't understand your rights from the beginning. There was really no need to purchase a warranty – especially as you can see now that as soon as you try to invoke the warranty they start finding excuses not to provide you with the help that you thought you are buying.

However it is certainly helpful that everybody is admitting that the problem existed when you bought the car and that is important.

Your rights are that when you buy vehicle it is of satisfactory quality and it remains that way for a reasonable period of time. From what you have told us, the vehicle was not of satisfactory quality and in view of the seriousness of the defect – the crash damage – you are entitled to reject the vehicle immediately and demand a refund.

You haven't done this and instead you have allowed yourself to be led around by the nose and of course this is a great way that the dealer has managed to avoid their consumer responsibility and of course the finance company is being similarly uncooperative.

You haven't told us much about the reason that the finance company has declined to help you. Maybe you could give a brief explanation but also produce a final response.

Your consumer rights were – in addition to have a vehicle of satisfactory quality – that if any defects at all occurred within the first 30 days, you had the right to reject it and demand a refund immediately. If any defects manifested themselves within the first six months, you had the right to reject the vehicle subject to a single opportunity for the dealers to repair it. If the repair failed or if they declined to repair it then you would be entitled to reject.

You haven't taken advantage of any of these rights and so therefore you have lost them.

However, the car must be of satisfactory quality and this would generally mean that any defects would be repaired at the dealers expense.

However it seems to me that the crash damage is probably not repairable and so to that extent the vehicle is probably a write off as far as you are concerned. In law this would amount to a "fundamental breach of contract" and this would allow you to treat the contract as at an end and to demand a refund of all money paid and any ancillary expenses incurred as a result of the contractual breach.
Some kind of deduction might be made for mileage used while the car was still running.

Now that you have gone to the financial ombudsman, you are effectively prevented from taking a court action. You could take a court action but immediately that would mean that the FOS would terminate their investigation because they will not conduct an investigation in parallel with an  ongoing court proceedings.

Normally we would have advised you to take a court action – but here you are dealing with a lot of money. If the value of the dispute had been less than £10,000 then you could comfortably go to Small Claims Court and the most you would risk would be your claim fee if you lost.

Here you are talking about a very substantial sum of money and although on the basis of what you say your chances of success would be 99%, there is still a tiny risk but also the fact that you are dealing with such a large sum could encourage the dealer or the finance company to lawyer-up and simply try to outspend you on the litigation.

So for the moment, your best position is to stay with the FOS and see what they have to say however you should understand that you don't have to accept their decision at the end.

If they find in your favour but simply makes a very meagre award then you could reject that award but the ombudsman is finding would be very helpful to you in court and would strengthen your position.

Please give us the extra information that we have asked. Please will you look at our responses to you carefully and make sure you address all questions which are asked so that we don't have to try and chase around the block for answers to questions which we asked and for some or other you have missed out.

A couple questions – how far away from you are the dealer?

When you bought the car – did it have a brand-new MOT – and if so who gave it its MOT? Have you had an MOT subsequently?

 

And finally, for the moment, have a look at the advice we give if you follow the link to our used car guide

 

 

And just to add – in case you don't feel bad enough – the dealers have a legal obligation to maintain your vehicle and to make sure that it is in satisfactory condition.
This means that they are obliged to carry out any repairs free of charge and getting you to pay for a warranty is a con trick. They have effectively persuaded you to shell out for repairs which they were legally obliged to do for free.

 

[ImmyK]

Thanks for your reply.

Their final response was just an email (seemed a bit unprofessional) but FOS seem to have accepted it as their final response.

So the issues that I realised within the first few weeks to me at the time seemed like age related stuff and I didn't want to cause trouble and in hindsight I realise I should have pressed harder but I think my heart was being used more than my brain at this point.

And yes I now believe extended warranties aren't worth the paper they're printed on, in all fairness to the dealer they did sort these initial issues out when warranty wise rejected them.

To touch on your questions, the car was purchased using PCP so deposit with 4 years of monthly payment then a balloon payment at the end or return the vehicle. My pcp agreement was on the basis of 10k miles per year but I think I've currently done 12k miles since Sept 2022 lol.

Elite Inspections suggested FOS as stage probably because they're free so I took their advice.

When I got the car it had an MOT around 4 months beforehand I believe

My MOTS after have been done by private MOT garages (I guess they tend not to comment on panel alignment etc)

As for defects from day one - please note they gave 6 month warranty through warranty wise but everything was rejected through them:

Passenger side ambient lighting wasn't working (whole trim panel needed to be replaced - dealer paid)

Engine would randomly shut the down completely (instead of start stop function) at traffic lights and junctions (software updated in the end - dealer paid)

Sat nav screen would freeze/ stay off for a whole journey (intermittent fault, still not sorted/diagnosed)

Boot stopped working (new battery needed - dealer paid)

The A-pillar trim between the passenger door and windscreen was coming away from the car making a very loud whistling noise as you drive on the motorway ( dealer paid to replace but has come off twice since this repair which shows me the car has potentially bent out of shape so that panel won't go back on)

initially was reported within 3 months of ownership and due to part shortages I held out for the parts to come back into stock which ended up taking 6-7 months (TECHNICALLY they had their first chance to fix, and within 2 months it went wrong again but the first repair was massively delayed due to part shortages)

Seat belt warning wasn't working (not beeping if you drive without belt on - software reset dealer paid but really put me off from this point as it suggested car had been electronically tampered with)

Sun roof was stuck open on one side due to a bent rail around 1 year after purchase - warranty company rejected due to it being pre existing fault apparently. Bodyshop repaired and from this point he pointed out the damage on the car but Alphera just wanted me to deal with Clinkard

Clinkard were offering solutions which ended up with me losing nearly £40,000 in a year and them being able to sell another car to me at full price. It was this point I regretted being too nice and trying to keep the peace as it had gotten me nowhere.

Advised Clinkard of the cost and opportunity for them to speak to the customer they bought the car from but advised there weren't any issues and advised Alphera too and they suggested that I get the inspection done and here we are now lol

Please let me know if I've missed anything out sorry about the essay

email.pdf

 

Sorry forgot to mention the dealership is around 3-4 hours away from me and was a distance sale and I just went to collect it after transferring deposit/ Finance being accepted.

[BankFodder]

Strange final response. They say that they are still investigating but they are giving you their final response anyway.

Seems like a load of nonsense.

Have you got a copy of what you then sent to the ombudsman?

Anyway, for the moment although would like to know – it really is all for curiosity because as you have put it into the hands of the ombudsman it's probably not worth doing anything more until you have a reply.

I would suggest that when you decide to spend this kind of money in future on a used car, that you understand exactly what your rights are before you make the purchase.
When you buy anything – and maybe especially used car you should realise that you aren't only paying for the car, you are also paying for a bundle of consumer obligations which are intended to bind the dealer. You are paying for a vehicle which is of satisfactory quality and remains that way for a reasonable period of time and you are paying for any defects which emerge to be addressed and repaired at the expense of the dealer.

We've already pointed out that by purchasing the warranty, they have effectively persuaded you to pay for something for which you have already paid.

Very decent of you not to want to cause trouble in respect of defects which manifested themselves within the first few weeks. I have no idea why. For £78,000….

This you say that they were age-related problems – that is still no reason why those defects should have been there or why the dealer should not have been responsible for them.

It seems to me that you have a clear case against the dealer/the finance company. We don't have many or any PCP purchases on this forum. However, it seems to me that the finance company is probably responsible for the condition of the vehicle because effectively you have bought it from them and to that extent it should be the same as HP.

With a hire purchase agreement, it is as if you bought the vehicle directly from the finance company not from the dealer and it is the finance company which bears all the consumer obligations.

I think the only thing you can do is to monitor the situation. Update us when you hear from the financial ombudsman and if you need to take the matter to court then we will help you. In principle it should be straightforward – but certainly there is a risk of a serious bill for costs if you lose. I don't see you losing.

Did you say somewhere that the report suggested that the vehicle was unroadworthy?

Have you got the advertisement for the vehicle? Does it make claims for the vehicle which are clearly untrue?

And by the way, four hours away from you is what kind of distance?

Have you read our used car guide? Have you looked at the video?

[ImmyK]

Funnily enough the ad is still available online

Range Rover 4.4 SDV8 Autobiography LWB Previously Sold | Clinkard Performance Cars

WWW.CLINKARDCARS.CO.UK

---

Performance, Prestigious and Specialist cars Dealers in Romsey, Hampshire

but the autotrader version isn't which was probably slightly different potentially with more information.

Reported to FOS over the phone but essentially gave them the same information I've stated here, updating them that I'm paying for a car I haven't had for nearly a month now etc I'll certainly come back with an update. Fingers crossed they will realise it's not worth taking to court. So the inspection among other things found a hairline crack across a load bearing section of the chasis which at the minute to the naked eye looks tiny but could turn out to be catastrophic and has had some filler chucked on top of it but we'll see what Clinkards inspection comes back with.

Distance wise I believe they're around 165-170 miles away from me.

Also I'm sure many people will have PCP agreements as it's the most common way to buy cars under 5 years old but they just forgotten the terminology or name for it. Pay deposit, choose a length then pay the difference between value today and guaranteed future value at the end of that agreed term

 

Whole experience has scarred me and moving forward I'd be tempted to pay for a pre purchase inspection myself because these guys are bigggg traders with a lot of top end cars. I just hope they don't make any more silly offers

[BankFodder]

You should start putting everything in writing.

Even the ombudsman, to begin a serious complaint by telephone is quite frankly crazy.

I hope you have taken a copy of at least the advertisement that you have posted above. 

I don't suppose that you kept a copy of the original AutoTrader advertisement. 

How much in writing have you got of anything?

I would suggest also that you telephone the ombudsman tomorrow and ask them for details of the complaint that they have received from you and tell them that you want it in writing. 

You will be amazed how scant The records of which are kept by these people.

Read our customer services guide and at least actually give you some idea of how you should deal with customer service people or any call handlers on the telephone. 

It is very important that you get a written summary of the report which you made to the ombudsman so that you can see exactly what they are investigating.

The complaint to the ombudsman should have been very carefully considered over a period of time rather than simply made in a phone call

[jk2054]

email complaint.info@financial-ombudsman.org.uk and ask for a copy of your complaint form

[ImmyK]

Just an update,

finance company rejected my complaint saying they've found damage but can't tell when it's from even though I've shown them how the front end is misaligned in the advert photos compared to another identical model car they're selling. 

Dealership now want to charge me to get the car brought back to me but will only discuss over the phone which seems off.

They're also saying no damaged was picked up by JLR main dealership before I purchased it but my local JLR dealerships till this day haven't mentioned the damage to me because they don't go into stuff like that for some reason lol 

Ombudsman case is still open, not sure if I should leave the car with them or just pay to have it brought back.

[jk2054]

everything in writing

paper trails

 

IF IT HAS TO BE PHONE

 

then on recording with number

[ImmyK]

Just an update, now they're refusing to let me collect the car until I've paid them for their collection and their inspection. Is it best to just pay it? I've said I'd pay for inspection as long as I get the report but not paying for their collection as they never said I'd have to pay for any of this beforehand.

 

Thanks