UK unsecured Debt advice abroad for 3yrs now

[Asroth1111]

Hi all, 

Firstly, very useful forum, thank you

Secondly, I'm in "a bit" of a mess regarding a rather substantial UK unsecured credit card debt. I have spent too much on credit cards in the last 10 years (30k - those are not with high street banks but rather unsecured loan companies. 

I have an issue with money unfortunately, need to address the psychological aspect of it at one point but I'm not here for this. In fact,

I'm not living in the UK anymore (EU) since 3 years and I have stopped to make payments on those credit card accounts around 1 year and half ago. I'm not really in any financial distress, lets be honest, not rich either, not able right now to repay those loans for sure.

The main reason why I stopped the payments is that my family is not aware of those debts, simple. Before, when we were in the UK, I had my own bank account and could repay without disclosing it to my family. In my new situation. I have a shared account and do not want to show those payments to my family.

I have been obviously kickin the can down the line until I received very recently a first email from a DCA (very nice email for now "You have financial problems, do not hesitate to talk to us..Register with us to see your account" blabla), I just ignored but it made me wonder what would be my best course of action reading your forum and based on the following premisices:

- As said, I do not want my family to know right now and possibly for the next few years, I'm not saying never but right now is not the right moment, it could have not nice at all consequences

- My creditors are not aware of my EU address (and I would prefer not to make them aware of it due to reasons stated above - risk of mails or even visits at my new address even if remote possibility) and it does look like they could just ignore any mails I would sent them for mentioning my new abroad address, they could still try a CCJ on my old adress .

I would still need to prove to the court the fact that I made them aware of my address change by mails but also I would need to provide a good reason for a set aside (and I will guess that not wanting my family to know is not a good enough reason)

- I have no assets in the UK (the only thing where I'm slightly unsure is that I'm working for an UK company but I'm employed under french work laws so technically, I'm not anymore british employe so I assume they cannot have a charging order on my wages)

- I still have an UK bank account with very very small money on it (less than 15 pounds)

- Not planning at all to go back to the UK to live there again but I will have to go back here and then for few days between work and family

- I'm not trying to not pay those debts, I would and I will as soon as I can pay them back but right now and for the foreseable future, I cannot

Now based on those premisces, here are my assumptions on the way forward:

- Do nothing, ignore everything and then face the consequences of a CCJ for my debt where my creditors should not be able to do much against any asset that I do not have in the UK.

Though question mark around my wages despite not being an UK employee but employed by a british company in another country - it is still that british entity who is transferring wages into my EU bank account).

I think my main worry there is around the summon to court, can the court deliver some sort of warrant if there is a no show - I mean to ignore even the court procedure ? I.e could I be stopped at the airport for this.

I do not think so with what I read, not for a CCJ credit card debt but I'm wondering if they could prove any sort fo fraud like "he borrowed money he knew he could not reimburse" .

In this case, the other worry I have is that they could obtain my EU adress via my UK bank account, is my bank would have to disclose my adress to them if there are a charging order against my bank account through a CCJ ?

Having a CCJ (even if it is credit card debt and you would not go to prison for it) against you is not a small thing to manage I guess If I want to get back to the UK on a regular basis for few days...

- Share my EU address though a registered letter with acknolegment of receipt with my creditors to avoid a CCJ (but It does not look like it is for certain that it would avoid it as it looks like they could ignore my letters, act as if they never received that letter and still do a backdoor CCJ and then I would have to prove they were aware of my EU address and then also explain why I want to set the CCJ aside .

So in essence I would start a process of recognition). Even if I was avoiding a CCJ via this sharing my EU address, the DCA who sent me the email seeems to have an office in the EU if I believe their website, not my country but an EU country, not sure if they could do something via their EU office as they would have my EU address.

I guess it would cost them to transsfer the case to the EU, would they do it for 30k ? I'm really not keen to provide my EU address in any case, even if there is a remote possibility for them to hit some assets, I would prefer to avoid the risk. Though I guess they have some ways to obtain that address if they really want to without me telling them

- The last solution I have in mind is to pay a very minimal token every month to the DCA, I should be able to escape family scrutiny doing less than 5 pounds payments, at least I'm buying myself sometimes/avoid rather not nice consequences in terms of CCJs or other pursuit but I understood it would mean they have me indefinitely until they are happy of what I have repaid.

I should have some money unlocked within 8 years in the UK, a sort of pot (not an asset available right now) that would enable me to repay a good chunk of the debt and I'm sure the DCA would be happy with, would it be possible to have such an agreement with the DCA if I had evidence of that money to come i.e I'm paying 1 pound token a month until then and then repay the thing in 8 or so years fully

 

I'm a bit at lost on the way forward and any advice would be greatly appreciated, I think waht I'm trying to know mainly is around the consequences of a CCJ in my situation or the possibility of a DCA to run after me in the EU for 30k. the obvious way forward is to tell the truth to the family and face the consequences but right now, I'm not prepared to do this, I will probably have to at one point

Thank you very much and apologies for the lenght of this posting

Edited February 25 by unclebulgaria67
Make it easier to read

[unclebulgaria67]

Your post is far too long. May put people off replying. I have edited into shorter paragraphs.

Essentially if you have no plans to return to UK and the debt is unsecured and you have no plans to return to the UK, then the best option is to inform creditors of your EU address.

Do you have social media accounts e.g. Facebook, LinkedIn?  If you do, then make them private. Otherwise they may try to contact you via employers.

Creditors likely to get CCJ's using last know UK address, but not yet. They may wait possibly until 5 years after default. Once they  have CCJ, they then have 6 years to try to enforce. But a CCJ does not die, it is just they  need to go back to Court, if they wanted more time to enforce. So you are looking at creditors trying to enforce these debts into the 2030's !

Credit card or loan debts are civil matters, so no issue at borders. 

Don't think they can get UK Court to agree to wage deductions.

[dx100uk]

god what a long post but -  a very simple answer to it though  - simply WRITE BY SURFACE MAIL to all your creditors stating here is my new address since of date 3yrs ago. if you wish inc proof of residency in your EU country. not a lot they can then do.

dx

[London1971]

Yup, nothing to worry about at all

[Asroth1111]

Hey guys, thanks for the quick feedback !

So here is my take aways:

1) @unclebulgaria67  It sounds like it is a bit early for me to worry about any CCJs against me seeing it is only 1.5 years that I have stopped my payment as you are saying that CCJs would be pursued as a last resort thing (after 5 years to avoid SB status I assume).

In terms of social media accounts, it is really minimal, I have not connected on my facebook account in the last 10 years (it is still there but no update or so). For the linkedin, it is reduced at the maximal settings in terms of privacy so I guess it is fine.

For them contacting me through my employer, yes that is a possibility, even without social media account, I do believe they asked me for some details around employment at the time I opened the credit card accounts so I must have given away some info there but I do not remember what sort of details. And, in my view, I do not care much what my employer think about all this as long as they are not forced legally to deduce something from my wages (and they should not be forced to as I'm not an UK employe anymore)

 

2) It sounds like you are all advising to share my EU address with creditors.

However, it does not seem that it would stop them to try to have a backdoor CCJ so what would be the point of sharing my EU address if they would still try to have a CCJ anyway ?

is it possible to have a bit more technical details on that matter ?

It seems to me that I put myself in reach of them in the EU if they want to go after me, though you all seem to think it would not happen/or vey unlikely to happen, why btw they would not do that ?

What is the cost of doing so ? 

 

3) Another point: I'm assuming that the debts are still with the original creditors for now as it is still early in the process of me not paying anymore and the DCA is just acting as a pressure toy for now.

I cannot have a credit statutory report as I'm not living in the UK anymore (they are sending a passkey I think to a UK address to have  a credit statutory report) so I cannot be sure who owns the debt now, do you know a way to have a credit statutory report without having an UK address ?

 

Thanks again for your help ! and sorry for the long posts !

[unclebulgaria67]

If a debtor informs a creditor of a foreign address, then it might stop the creditors making a UK Court claim. But you have a UK Bank account and if that is showing on UK credit records, then I can see them just issue a Court claim using last UK address.

Normally if someone is living abroad, they issue Court claim in country where you live. Or they can issue UK Court claim, but they would have to follow correct process,with Court claim sent to your foreign address, more time is allowed and they may have to pay your expenses to attend UK Court.

Providing foreign address reduces risk of UK backdoor CCJ sent to previous address without you knowing about it. But no guarantee it won't still happen.

Credit rating agencies such as Equifax, Experian have details on their website on how you can obtain credit record even if you live outside UK . I think you need to register and prove  ID.

[dx100uk]

6 hours ago, dx100uk said:

 simply WRITE BY SURFACE MAIL to all your creditors stating here is my new address since of date 3yrs ago. if you wish inc proof of residency in your EU country. not a lot they can then do.

dx

 

[Asroth1111]

OK @dx100uk 

I know the 2 creditors, should I also surface mail the DCA as I do not know who owns the debt currently ?

I assume the original creditors are still owning the debt as it is not that long time I stopped to pay but not 100% sure of this.

I still would love to understand with your own word what is the advantage of providing foreign address to them apart a remote chance of seting aside any backdoor CCJs ?

what are the risks to have a UK CCJ against me if I have no asset in the UK ?

Could you please expand ?

thank you very much

 

@unclebulgaria67 

That is what I thought, no insurance for me to avoid a UK CCJ even if I provide my foreign address to my creditors

. I have looked at having a credit report sent to a foreign address and it is a whole palava to be honest. and lets be frank, I do not believe credit rating companies are my friends, they work rather for the dark side so I'm not fully confident in providing too much details to them.

Btw, I could close my UK bank account (this is registered with my foreign address)

Thank you again both for your guidance !

[dx100uk]

you are over thinking all of this.

simply inform the original creditor with proof.. end of debt end of any action.

dx

[Asroth1111]

OK, sounds simple enough then, what sort of proof do you recommend ? just a bill with name and adress will do ? thx

[dx100uk]

have you not got any early type of residency cert from gov't boby there, like our ctax or renting cert or WHY?
its not really important ,but you certainly need to relay its been xxx time in years.

you say :

2 hours ago, Asroth1111 said:

I could close my UK bank account (this is registered with my foreign address)

when did you do this, it could be useful to send proof of that from as early as poss date of anything from them or online you can grab.

if you've not received any notice of assignment letters from any DCA to any address, then debts have not been sold on.

dx

 

[Asroth1111]

OK understood for the proof of residency, and yes I have some council tax receipt

For the UK bank account, I have not closed it for now, would you advise to do ? No monies on it, just keeping it in case of...

For notice of assignment, I cannot know, was an old UK address and cannot contact new tenants, they must throw away any letters coming in

[dx100uk]

the bank account makes no odds .

dx

10 hours ago, Asroth1111 said:

I have been obviously kickin the can down the line until I received very recently a first email from a DCA (very nice email for now "You have financial problems, do not hesitate to talk to us..Register with us to see your account" blabla), I just ignored but it made me wonder what would be my best course of action reading your forum and based on the following 

i would suggest that there's a good possibility that at least one if not all are now owned by DCA's now. they would not have the above info on their webportal if the debt had not been sold.

if you've not been able to look at your cra file in 3yrs, id suspect you might already have backdoor CCJ's.

tbh it doesn't matter, theres nothing they can do with one anyway where you are.

i think the greater need here is 

10 hours ago, Asroth1111 said:

I have an issue with money unfortunately, need to address the psychological aspect of it at one point but I'm not here for this.

pers i'd forget everything debt now and go sort the above out.

far more important.

dx

[Asroth1111]

thanks again for your help, yeah the email starts by "we understand that it is difficult time for everyone blabla" and then tells me to login or register to change my account details and setup a payment plan blabla

This would mean that it has been rather quickly passed onto the DCA as it is only 1.5 year that I did my last payment, thanks for the confirmation that we could well be into CCJ territory already

Do you think the court will send me summon or details by email or it is only via surface email (so to my old UK addresss) ?

I guess by CRA file, you mean Credit rating report ? I have access to my credit rating from Experian (which has gone down lately obviously) but not paying for it so I just have the overview of the rating, no details at all

 

[dx100uk]

if nothing shows on experian then you are ok. going fwd simply write to the debt owners as advised.

end of problems as i said.

time to move on now

dx

 

[Asroth1111]

Sorry @dx100uk if I was unclear, I cannot see if something shows on Experian as a matter of fact because I'm not paying the Experian service, I'm only seeing my score, no granular details, thats it. and as mentioned previously, to get a credit statutory report is a whole palava if you are abroad, I'm not even sure that experian would do it and I looked at Equifax, they ask too much details and proof for my liking to have a credit report sent abroad

Putting that aside and considering I cannot know who owns my debt currently (and you seem to say that the fact I received a first nice email from the DCA, they could already own my debt), you sem to suggest to not do anything at all and forget 

If there was a court claim in the process already, would not I receive an email or is it only by surface mail that court claim are served ? 

Thanks again

[unclebulgaria67]

surface mail for Court claims to address on record.

I doubt that any CCJ has been obtained, as default in last 2 years. Creditors usually wait, particularly if the credit records appear to suggest that financially the debtor is not financially in a position to repay at the moment.  

Remember creditors track your credit record and if you are abroad you probably don't have any transactional changes to your record.

If creditors are emailing you, it may be because they have sent letters to your previous UK address and either they have not heard back or the people residing at the address have returned the letters noting ' return to sender not at this address'.   They may have also tried to telephone the address if they have traced a landline linked to the address and if anyone has picked up a call,  they may have said you don't live at the address.

The fact that creditors have tried to contact you at the previous address and may believe you no longer live there,  does not mean they would not use it to issue a County Court claim with the address noted. They are allowed to use last known address.  This is one of the reasons to advise of foreign address,  so you can receive any communications.

 

[Asroth1111]

Thanks @unclebulgaria67 thats crystal clear ! I would argue that somehow I do not want for now to talk with my creditors, I have not much to tell them in fact and I would prefer to avoid any correspondance from them to land in my EU mailbox due to the argument I made at first: I cannot deal with my family knowing of this issue right now and having a certain numbers of letters (I'm sure they love to send some colourful letters !) landing in my mailbox is no the most appealing thing to me.

At the same time, I would obviously prefer to avoid any UK CCJ even though in my current situation, there is not much pain point around having an UK CCJ as I'm not planning to go back to the UK, apart for short trips, which would not be an issue if I understand well

I guess I cannot have my cake and eat it, I will have to decide a way forward, thanks again for the advices !