Got caught child's oyster card +60 uses - now SJPN

[dx100uk]

yes but your TfL letter needs work 

dont send that .

you can get the court stuff sent off though.

dx

 

[SusMeist3r]

What else could I add/change

[honeybee13]

I imagine dx is looking at that, from what he said.

HB

[honeybee13]

Using the letter from higher up, three hours ago at the time of typing this.

I deeply regret that my behaviour has led me to presenting a 5-10 Zip card with the intention to use it for travel on 2/11/24

Your behaviour didn't lead to this. What led to the behaviour?

I want to provide some honest context for why what I thought at the time was the right thing to do was absolutely not, though I understand that this does not excuse it in any way. 

I assure you that this incident is not in any way reflective of my character or attitude towards authority.

Why not?

On that day, I didn’t have enough money on my debit card to pay for my work-related travel, therefore I made many foolish decisions there and before, wrongly believing I was saving money with free travel to benefit my situation. I admit that I know what I did was wrong even before I got caught red handed by your officers that day.

I plead with you for the chance for an out of court settlement for the full amount of the unpaid fares and your administrative costs. I’ve been paying with Contactless only for transport since to ensure that behaviour like this will never happen again in the future.

I’m unemployed at the moment and also have existing student debt from when I left university back during my course in 2022 that I’m trying to pay off. I’m still trying to find my way in life and receiving a criminal conviction scares me that many doors would be closed to me in the future. I don’t want my past ignorant decisions to be associated with who I am today.

If you're on a low income, do you reach the threshold for repayments?

I am sincerely sorry for the damage my actions have caused and the time you have taken towards this. I hope that you will consider my apology and take into account my commitment to making this better.

 Perhaps you could make a start on answering my questions in red? I've removed the name of your university, I don't think it's needed.

HB

[SusMeist3r]

What led to my behaviour is me wanting to save money by not spending on public transport,

I have a younger sibling who is eligible for these cards and since she didn't need them since she can't travel by herself I was using them towards that purpose.

I knew people that had siblings that did the same thing and it seemed to be the most harmless option to me.

Why this incident isn't reflective of my character?

In honesty this is the only thing I've done in my life that would get me prosecuted,

I was actually paying for buses journeys with a contactless every time but was using the oyster for Underground/Overground..

It's my first time ever being prosecuted for anything as well.

It's the cost of living crisis , I just wanted to minimise expenses, if it wasn't for my parents letting me live with them until I move out, I'd be screwed.

I never thought of applying this kind of behaviour in other aspects of my life where I'd commit fraudulent behaviour.

I don't reach the threshold for repayment because I haven't been able to stay hired long enough in any one job to make enough income in a year for repayments, but it's something I'll have to pay off once I do.

[honeybee13]

I'm not sure any of that is suitable for your letter. See what the guys think.

HB

[SusMeist3r]

Unfortunately those are the only circumstances I can provide, you can't fake apology.

You ask me why not? ,

I don't see how someone can prove why it's not reflective of their character,

it's my first time ever being prosecuted for something and I want it to be my last.

I don't need this in my life

[Grotesque]

40 minutes ago, SusMeist3r said:

since she didn't need them since she can't travel by herself

Just to clarify, that's not quite what they're for; TfL doesn't expect five-year-olds to be travelling around the tube!

They're effectively a means of identifying the child and proving that she s/he is eligible for free travel and, therefore, that their accompanying adult doesn't have to pay a child rate ticket.

Merely FYI, though showing you know about the ticket you misused might go down well.

How they are a great money-saver for families with children in a time of austerity, etc, and that you would greatly regret (be double gutted, you know?) if your actions impacted on that allowance.

[SusMeist3r]

That's a good point

[honeybee13]

SM, I'm  not trying to make you angry, I/we are trying to help you write a letter that might persuade TfL not to do court, which you say is what you want.

If this does end up in court though, you're likely to be asked direct questions about what happened by the TfL prosecutor. Getting angry with him isn't going to help.

Think of it like an essay for your course and try to convince the reader.

HB

[SusMeist3r]

I've always been terrible at essay writing that's why I'm finding this difficult, I'd like to ideally send this letter asap and all of your help has been very amazing so far and I'm slowly starting to understand the process

I deeply regret my actions that led me to presenting a 5-10 Zip card with the intention to use it for travel on 2/11/24.

I want to provide some honest context for why what I thought at the time was the right thing to do was absolutely not, though I understand that this does not excuse it in any way.  On that day, I didn’t have enough money on my debit card to pay for my work-related travel, therefore I made many foolish decisions there and before. I understand how useful and great money savers Zip cards are for families with children in struggling times, therefore I wrongly believed I was saving money with free travel to benefit my financial situation. I admit that I know what I did was wrong even before I got caught red handed by your officers.

I plead with you for the chance for an out of court settlement for the full amount of the unpaid fares and your administrative costs.

I assure you that this incident is not in any way reflective of my character or attitude towards authority. I’ve been paying with Contactless for buses alongside my time using the card and since the incident, I only use Contactless for all transport to ensure that behaviour like this will never happen again in the future.

I’m unemployed at the moment relying on my capital saved and also have existing student debt from when I left The University of Leeds back during my course in 2022 that I want to pay off as soon as possible. I’m still trying to find my way in life and receiving a criminal conviction scares me that many doors would be closed to me in the future. I don’t want my past ignorant decisions to be associated with who I am today and to affect my younger sibling’s ability to apply for free travel which she soon needs.

I am sincerely sorry for the damage my actions have caused and the time you have taken towards this. I hope that you will consider my apology and take into account my commitment to making this better.

[honeybee13]

How did you get through your course without writing essays, out of interest?

And how long before the court date please?

HB

[honeybee13]

Also, if you're living off capital, why couldn't you afford train fares?

HB

[SusMeist3r]

I was only at uni for 3 months,

I realised I didn't understand most if any of the course content because I wasn't taught the subject for a levels,

it was too difficult for me to catch up and left uni to move back in, personally I believe the university shouldn't have given me an offer in the first place.

I haven't written essays since I was 16, but because I didn't have consistent income I was trying to minimise my expenses until I got my first paycheque at a new job.

[BazzaS]

I’m pretty sure no one WANTS to pay TfL to travel, so saying you did it because you didn’t want to pay, or were feeling financial pressure : that’s just your internal disinhibition allowing you to rationalise your fraud.

”Lots of other people do it, too” : external disinhibition (using other people's unlawful behaviour to justify your own).

 

Taken with the "I made a mistake on the day" (well, and the 68 other days…….)

You knew it was wrong. None of the background you've stated is likely to persuade TfL as they've heard it all before, including “I was skint” (yet many skint people still ensure they pay their fares), and "A criminal conviction will hurt my career prospects" (so, they should only prosecute people on minimum wage jobs, then????)

You still come across as sorry you got caught, not sorry you were doing wrong.

 

I also had a mental image of 3 years of accumulated university debt / student loans.Turns out you were there for 3 months……. (& you blame the university for that).

University's fault.

TfL’s fault.

I’m amazed that you’ve been so unlucky (& unlucky to get stopped / prosecuted after ONLY 60+ episodes of fare dodging).

At what point does it become your fault / your responsibility ; and you accept the consequences of your actions?

[honeybee13]

We seem to be getting there with the letter. Playing devil's advocate for a minute.

Question: on the TfL form, does it ask for your date of birth?

I'm still concerned about how TfL will view living off capital while not paying tube fares. Maybe you could have travelled by bus for your job?

HB

[honeybee13]

@SusMeist3r you said you want to send the letter soon.

Are you able to answer my questions please?

HB

[SusMeist3r]

Form asks for date of birth, im 20 at the moment 

At the time the incident happened I was working at Canary Wharf which was an hour journey away from me by train so I couldn't travel by bus there, then an hour to and back from the random post codes over London I used to do my Sales job at, the job basically was 2-3 hours travelling daily.

After my card got confiscated and when I told my employer (technically self-employed but I was in a contract with his sales company) what happened, he offered me £50 for that week until I got my first paycheck as he does that for his employees who couldn't afford travel at that time. 

I know better than to admit by now that what I was doing wasn't a mistake.

Happily for you I didn't once get the impression that you're trolling, the best thing to do is get 3rd person perspective to review the case with no bias.

Edited February 23 by SusMeist3r

[honeybee13]

So are you minded to alter the parts about living off capital and about your student loan for the three months at university?

Maybe other people know more than I do about the court hearing and how much the prosecutor or the magistrate will ask you but as far as I understand it, you'll be under oath.

HB

 

[SusMeist3r]

Might as well leave it out, as you pointed out, I'm terrible at taking accountability and responsibility for my life and certain actions.

My court case is on March 11th, and a lot of the points I mentioned you said are invalid in court, it seems there are really no mitigating circumstances and everything is just based on faith in good word.

Mainly just because the card was previously used 68 times, that itself is overwhelming evidence that no matter what I say/the ill-believed reasons behind it , doesn't excuse anything with it knowingly being used.

I'm done and the only way I can come across is " you caught me ".

Edited February 23 by SusMeist3r

[SusMeist3r]

Have there been other cases where someone was caught using a card numerous times and they actually had legit mitigating circumstances?

[honeybee13]

You'd have to go back over previous threads here to look for similar cases. Often the detail will be in the title.

What TfL want is for you to regret what you did and learn from it. They want you to stop evading fares and to tell all your friends how much trouble it is when you're caught. And they want to know you won't evade fares again...

From what you've said, I'm not sure that's how you feel at the moment.

HB

 

[SusMeist3r]

No I completley understand what they want from me but then you tell me how are they meant to take my word for it? The only way to prove you won't reoffend is to... not reoffend?

[honeybee13]

I don't think we said they won't take your word for it, certainly if you're under oath in court.

They might like to hear more than 'I'm using a contactless card now' but I don't know what you're able to do. Some people buy a season ticket, some get their own Oyster card.

HB

[BazzaS]

If it goes to court, it doesn’t matter if you say you won’t re-offend.

The magistrates will be interested in if the offence is proven (& it will be, from what you’ve said)

The persuading them you won’t re-offend is for trying to persuade them not to prosecute and offer you an administrative settlement