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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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MET CCTV PCN - Zipcar Hire have paid it + admin fee!! - Occupants left Carpark - Starbucks Closed - Southgate Car Park Stansted Airport


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Hello guys,

 

Long story short

I was using a Zipcar (hire car) to go and pick my partner up from the airport.

I was early so I stopped for a coffee.

I parked in what they consider the Starbucks bit but Starbucks was closed, so I did the classic thing and walked across to McDonald's.

I was there for 40 odd minutes then I left. 

A week or so later I got charged about £75 on my Zipcar account because they automatically paid the PCN issued by MET parking. 

After reading a few threads here I've contacted the CEO of Starbucks and the support team has suggested I contact Euro Garages as it's their land etc.

I've also written to MET parking to complain. 

Question 1: As Zipcar automatically paid the charge on my behalf is it hopeless for me to try and get the money back? 

Question 2: If not then which is the best route to take?

This has become more of a principle thing now than anything else because I know so many people who have been caught by this trap.

Thanks in advance

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Moved to the private parking forum.

The whole point is that what you have received is not a fine, it is an invoice from a private company.

Therefore Zipcar should not have paid it, and should not have taken the money from you.

Demand it back, and if they don't play ball immediately then start the chargeback process with your bank.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to MET CCTV PCN - Zipcar Hie car - they've paid and Starbucks Closed - Southgate Car Park Stansted Airport
  • dx100uk changed the title to MET CCTV PCN - Zipcar Hire have paid it + admin fee!! - Occupants left Carpark - Starbucks Closed - Southgate Car Park Stansted Airport

it is NOT A FINE.....this is an extremely important point to understand

no-one bar a magistrate in a magistrates criminal court can ever fine anyone for anything.

Private Parking Tickets (speculative invoices) are NOT a criminal matter, merely a speculative contractual Civil matter

hence they can only try a speculative monetary claim via the civil county court system (which is no more a legal powers matter than what any member of Joe Public can do).

Until/unless they do raise a county court claim a CCJ and win, there are not ANY enforcement powers they can undertake other than using a DCA, whom are legally powerless and are not BAILIFFS.

Penalty Charge Notices issued by local authorities etc were decriminalised years ago - meaning they no longer can progress a claim to the magistrates court to enforce, but go directly to legal enforcement via a real BAILIFF themselves.

10'000 of people waste £m's paying private parking companies because they think they are FINES...and the media do not help either.

the more people read the above the less income this shark industry get.

Fine replaced with Charge.

....

 

now I'd go do that chargeback now ring your bank.

time for a snotty letter to Zip to IMHO @Ftmdave.. what do you think...the cheek!!

thread title updated

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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foilman,

To put your mind at rest about whether Zipcar are allowed to do what they did, just read their terms and conditions.

We could do with some help from you.

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Wonder what will happen after the OP does a chargeback?

Because MET have already been paid, they certainly won't refund Zip!

We could do with some help from you.

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:pound:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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49 minutes ago, FTMDave said:

Therefore Zipcar should not have paid it, and should not have taken the money from you.

Yep! The PCN tells them exactly what to do... Dob in the driver!

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated.

1. I've attached the 'violation notice' that Zipcar sent back to me with this email:

Hi Thomas,
Thanks for contacting us. 
Please see attached a copy of the violation notice which has been attributed to your account. 
Kind Regards,
Zipcar

2. I've attached the reply from MET too.

Thanks Dave, I think this might be the only solution, although I'm not overly confident the bank will agree or help out here.

It seems like everyone just turns a blind eye to these companies as if they're just and correct

. How the hell do they get away with it?

 

 

Zipcar Violation Notifice.pdf MET Appeal Reply.pdf

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The bank told me that they can't deal with invoices or fines. They say I need to speak with the company (Zipcar) and if I'm not happy with the outcome then I should take it to Citizens Advice.

I am not surprised.

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What utter bunk.

I did chargeback myself for the first time around a year ago thanks to advice on this forum.  Of course you can go for chargeback on an invoice.

My bank has a policy of having to give the retailer 14 days to sort it out first, I would guess your bank will be similar.  Who do you bank with?

You need to stop calling what you have received a fine though.  It isn't.  It's an invoice from a private company.  That isn't just semantics, if you start using the word "fine" to Zipcar or the bank they will say, quite rightly, that Zipcar are entitled to pay the amount plus deduct an admin charge for a fine (actually a council Penalty Charge Notice).  The point is that it is not a fine/Penalty Charge Notice.

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You TELL them (not ASK them!) to issue a chargeback. They will kick up a fuss but you DO NOT get off that phone until they issue the chargeback.

You DID NOT authorise Zipcar to take that payment, you have every right to take it back!

 

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We could do with some help from you.

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Damn right.

Personally I'd put it in writing and quote their own policy to them so they can't wheedle out of it.

Hopefully the OP will confirm which bank this is and we can look up the small print.

We could do with some help from you.

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:rockon:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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My own bank tried to fob me off from actually using chargeback and tried to push me to only dispute the transaction.

Anyway, Santander chargeback details -

https://www.santander.co.uk/assets/s3fs-public/documents/chargebacks-and-disputed-transactions.pdf

We could do with some help from you.

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Their disputed transaction stuff -

WWW.SANTANDER.CO.UK

Received something faulty, damaged, or been charged incorrectly? If you paid with your Santander credit or debit card, we may be able to help refund the...

 

We could do with some help from you.

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I feel Met parking took a liberty when they sent the PCN to Avis. They knew that they were dealing with a Hire company yet the PCN did not contain any informaton to Avis on how to deal with the PCN.

Had Avis been told that they could provide certain information to Met in order to avoid them being liable for  the debt should the hirer not pay. But of course by not giving that information Avis decided to pay straight away, to cover themself at half price, and once they  paid there is virtually no way to get that money back from Met.

It is interesting that they charged you with an overstay rather than leaving the car park to go to McDonalds. One would think that the free time would therefore have been 30 minutes. Given that you are entitled to a ten minute grace period and they have used cameras to record your arrival and departure times which is not the parking period that would easily cover the extra minute. It would take longer tan a minute for you to enter the car par and find a place to park and then later drive from the parking spot to the exit which is what the parking period should be.

Pointing these factors out to Avis plus letting them know that these PCNs are speculative invoices and MET don't go to Court since they know they would lose as it is a scam site. Include Joe Lycett's video on Youtube which he did four years ago

They may realise that they were wrong to pay the PCN and repay you without having to go for a charge back.

I have a feeling that the Hire companies do have some sort of arrangement with the parking rogues about how they can pass the charge on to the hirer and not be liable in the future should the hirer not pay the PCN.

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There are quite clear instructions about what to do about the PCN, on the PCN itself...

MET PCN excerpt.pdf

So point out to them that this is what they should have done!

We could do with some help from you.

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The trouble is Nicky Boy is that if the hirer does not pay within 28 days, the keeper is then responsible so from that point of view of Avis it is better to pay the reduced sum and claim it back from the hirer rather than risk having to pay £100 and thereby costing the hirer more money.

Many other companies do advise hire companies what to do when the hirer has breached the T&Cs.

Edited by lookinforinfo
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Surely all Avis have to do is shop the driver to MET?

Then they're out of the loop.

We could do with some help from you.

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My thoughts as well Dave.

The hirer could deny everything, but the signed agreement with Avis covers that.

We could do with some help from you.

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The instructions on this PCN are not intended for a Hire company since there is no  mention of the extra details required from Hire companies. Not only do they have to give the name and address of the hirer but also the hire contract and the agreement by the hirer on their responsibility to pay for any breaches.

In the early days of PoFA the parking rogues loved writing to Hire companies as almost of them paid up straight away and then charged their hirers for what they had done regardless of whether the hirer had breached anything at all/

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It's the hire companies lookout. The hirer just needs to do a charge back. 

Once they've been stung a couple of times, the hire companies should learn to do the right thing. 

Unfortunately, the they will always come out as winners...

We could do with some help from you.

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I agree that Hire companies should know the process of handling PCNs from private parking companies. At the same time Met when sending a PCN to a Hire company should have sent a PCN with full instructions to the Hire company on how to deal with the PCN.

From their point of view they have had a coup since they have been paid quickly albeit I guess only half the amount they asked for. Had  Avis not paid and complied with the regulations concerning PCNs  Met would probably have received legally nothing from Foilman and Avis would not have been guilty of damaging relations between themselves and their hirers aka customers.

Now they have a problem of their own making. Their hirer is demanding his money back as there is no proof yet of breaching Met's T&Cs and Avis have failed to carry out the instructions on the PCN.

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