Newton Autos in Milton Keynes - Bought a px Car to clear. Do I still have rights? they say no warranty!!

[jimguff]

Hello all, 

I bought a Toyota Avensis for £1900 from a dealer on the 4th of January. The car was part ex to clear. 

After 6 days I had to get the AA out when lights appeared on the dash and the car went into limp mode. After a while the lights went off but the error code had to be removed by the AA.

Between then and now it has happened numerous times. I've contacted the dealer but they've said that as there is no warranty as it was bought part ex to clear, they aren't going to do anything about this. 

I am still just within the 30 days. Do I have any rights? 

The car is at a local garage and I should find out exactly what is wrong with it tomorrow afternoon. I'd rather it be a cheap and easy fix to avoid the commotion, but if it turns out to be a serious fault, what can I do? 

Thanks for reading

Jim

[dx100uk]

of course you have rights!! they are talking total BS.

please name the dealer.

dx

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

As my siteteam colleague above has said, you have complete rights .

It doesn't matter whether you purchased the vehicle part exchange, new, or used you have exactly the same rights under the consumer rights act.

You are just within 30 days. You must send them a letter of rejection immediately.

Even if you don't want to reject the vehicle send the letter anyway to reserve your position.

And as my site team colleague has asked What is the name of the dealership

 

[jimguff]

Hello all, 

Thanks for the reply. The dealer is Newton Autos in Milton Keynes. 

Ive just had the car back from my local mechanic and the diagnostics have revealed that it is a high pressure fuel issue. The mechanic has said he'd needs to send all 4 fuel injectors away to be tested.

I have emailed them the following:

Quote

 

Good evening, 

This email is regarding the recent purchase of a Toyota Avensis (registration xxxx ) purchased on the 4/01/24.

I have been asked today (28/01/24) to contact yourself in writing regarding the earlier phone call that was made to the following phone number - 075xx728xxx.

Since purchase, the car has:

displayed fault codes on the dash-board - (fault codes attached in this email.)

Gone into limp mode on more than one occasion. 

• Required roadside assistance on the 10th of January. 

 

As it has been less than 30 days since purchase and the car has been found to have faults, I am invoking my consumer rights according to the consumer rights act 2015 and requesting a full refund of £1900 upon return of the vehicle. 

 

I look forward to hearing from you. 

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

Do i need to word correspondence in a particular way?

Does it need to be through the post?

Will email suffice?

Perhaps both? 

I also attach their reply below.

I'm not sure what is appropriate to do at this point I'll avoid posting the receipt and contract etc until advised to do so. 

Their reply:

 

Quote

 

Hi xxx,

 

Thanks for sending us email and reminding us the consumer act 2015.

 

Just to let you know that we have sold this as part exchange clearance as per our advertisement.

 

Also we have mentioned on the invoice that there is no warranty on car as this is part exchange clearance.

 

If you want to take legal action please you are most well come to deal that way.

 

Meanwhile please find attached our advertisement and also the copy of the invoice which is signed by you and our sales team.

 

Please communicate with us by emails only as both parties can keep the record.

 

Many thanks 

 

NEWTON AUTOS LIMITED
Hammond farm,
Newton Longville
Milton Keynes
Buckinghamshire
MK17 0AU

 

 

[honeybee13]

It looks like this firm. If you click on People on the Companies House website the address is Newton Longville.

NEWTON AUTOS LIMITED overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

FIND-AND-UPDATE.COMPANY-INFORMATION.SERVICE.GOV.UK

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NEWTON AUTOS LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual...

HB

[dx100uk]

55 minutes ago, jimguff said:

Just to let you know that we have sold this as part exchange clearance as per our advertisement.

 

Also we have mentioned on the invoice that there is no warranty on car as this is part exchange clearance.

a trader cannot sell a member of joe public a car without automatic coverage under the consumer rights act - they are wrong.

send you letter by email if you wish but you MUST backup by sending via 1st class royal mail letter, get free proof of posting from any PO counter

[jimguff]

Excellent. Thanks very much for the guidance. I'll send the letter recorded delivery first thing tomorrow morning. 

Are there any particular phrases that must be used in order to formally reject the car? 

Is it worth quoting the consumer act to them? I'm almost certain they are aware but trying it on rather than honestly ignorant to it.

 

Edited January 30 by jimguff

[dx100uk]

didn't say recorded - waste of money

i am formally rejecting the vehicle REG i purchased from you under my consumer rights within 30 days as it is faulty and not fit for purpose.

i am not a trader so your 'in house' rules regarding 'part exchange clearance' are immaterial to me as a member of joe public.

i suggest you read the Consumer rights and consumer laws acts very carefully.

regards

disgruntled customer

 

 

[jimguff]

Superb. I'll respond to their email now to formally reject the vehicle and send the letter FIRST CLASS tomorrow. 

I'll keep the thread updated with any change. 

Thanks very much for taking the time to respond. 

 

Penned a quick email. Any suggestions before sending? 

 

Quote

 

Good evening, 

 

Thanks for the swift response. It is understood that the car was sold without warranty, however as I am not a trader 'part ex to clear' does not deprive me of my rights as a consumer. As you will be aware, a car sold in this manner does not affect statutory consumer rights. 

 

I am therefore formally rejecting this vehicle (MK59XXG) that I purchased from you on 4/01/24 under my consumer rights within 30 days as it is faulty and not fit for purpose. 

 

I have had a mechanical report produced by both the AA and an independent mechanic that shows the faults. These are available upon request. 

 

I am sure that remediation of this situation can be achieved amicably, and I look forward to hearing from you. 

I note that you have suggested that I am welcome to take legal action if I wish. This means that you are prepared to waive the protocol requiring me to give you 14 days notice of a forthcoming legal action?

As you know, I have paid you by debit card and if you will not cooperate with me then I will contact my bank and begin a chargeback process. You will then have to dispute the matter with the bank.

 

Kind regards 

 

 

Edited January 30 by BankFodder
Edits in red

[BankFodder]

I have suggested in addition in red.

It seems to me that if they are already trying to mislead you on your consumer rights and they have now  suggested that you should go ahead and sue them, we may as well get an agreement that you don't need to send a letter of claim – and we can move immediately to begin a small claim against them

By the way, I'm not sure that we asked you how you paid for this vehicle. Did you pay by bank transfer? Did you pay by cash

[jimguff]

Good evening Bank fodder, 

I will add that in to the email. It's a very good point. 

I paid direct debit in full.

Kind regards 

J

[BankFodder]

Second edit in purple.

If you don't get a positive response to this email by Thursday, then begin a chargeback process.

Please be aware that once you begin a chargeback process, if you then cancel it because you get an offer from the dealer, you will not be able to re-begin the chargeback process.
Once it's gone – it's gone

[dx100uk]

thats very lucky and well done. SOOOOOO many make the mistake of using bank transfer and that totally removes all your rights of recourse via a bank.

this lot want to play highball and think they are the dogs.... so we'll do the same and teach them a lesson.

interestingly on their website they are accredited by these people that CLEARLY STATE 30 days.

Your legal rights | AA

WWW.THEAA.COM

---

Buying a used car is a great way of cutting costs as most new cars lose value in the first year. But you need to know your legal rights.

dx

[jimguff]

Wait, direct debit is set up by the seller and the buyer has to enter their pin right? Just to check... 

'Debit card transaction'. 

Not direct debit. 

APOLOGIES

Edited January 30 by jimguff

[dx100uk]

eh? you didn't pay by direct debit, which is monthly payments. you used a debit card to pay the whole balance in one hit..

[jimguff]

That's correct. I paid it in one hit from my debit card. Is this a problem? 

[dx100uk]

no so why bring up DD? 

go do a chargeback to your bank.

[jimguff]

Ah I mistakenly mentioned the term 'direct debit' above in post #12 in reply to the question about how I paid. 

I most definitely used a debit card transaction. Just like buying shopping at Asda! 

Apologies, It's been a very stressful couple of days with this. Surprising how much something like this can take out of you. Massive appreciation to you all. 

Dear Newton Autos Limited,

I am writing regarding the vehicle purchased from you on the 4th January 2024. Toyota Avensis (MK59XXG). 

Due to persistent and serious mechanical issues with the vehicle, as discussed in previous email correspondence between myself and your contact, I am formally rejecting this vehicle (MK59XXG) that I purchased from you on 4/01/24 under my consumer rights within 30 days as the vehicle is faulty and not fit for purpose.

I look forward to hearing from you and await a sensible and professional remedial response. 

 Yours sincerely,
Jason Bradley
 

Sending this 1st class today. 

[BankFodder]

Send it by email as well.

Rather than awaiting a sensible professional remedial response, I think that you should ask what arrangements the intent to make to collect the vehicle and to refund you.

[jimguff]

Morning all, 

Just picked up car from mechanic, got chatting and it's likely fuel injectors. Report produced, printed and fault codes showing.

Looking to be an expensive job as they'd have to first have to send all four injectors away to be tested and that go from there. 

Email formally rejecting the car sent last night. I'll change the wording of the last paragraph and get that sent this morning. 

A different fella in the garage said that he's seen this behaviour before from garages and they'll claim it is a trade sale. He said to not be shy about parking up on the forecourt and creating a scene! 

Just received this from Newton:

Hi J

 

Invoice of the sale and what terms was agreed and how we have advertise the vehicle.

 

We have clearly CCTV footage where our sales man was explaining you that there is no warranty on car and there is no come back and you was agreed and signed the invoice.

 

If you still want to take legal action then we are happy to deal this matter on legal basis.

 

As per our previous email that we have provided you full invoice and advertisement screenshot.

 

Many thanks 

 

Newton Autos Legal Team Advisor.

[BankFodder]

They are not able to contract out of their consumer obligations under the 2015 act.

Their argument and their CCTV footage and their signed invoice are helpful to you because it will show that they deliberately seek to avoid their consumer obligations so rather than acting against your interests, it is entirely to your advantage.

Now you have to decide whether or not to take legal action.

If you want to bring a claim then draft your letter of claim and post it here,

however, be aware that this company only incorporated in 2022. It is not very well established. It is exactly the kind of company that you might expect to Phoenix itself in order to avoid enforcement.

Begin a chargeback proceeding is probably the best thing to do. Contact your bank

[jimguff]

They are talking about the cctv footage.

I actually asked before buying if they'd throw in a warranty and the salesman specifically said to me and the person I was with, "you have 30 days as standard incase of any serious issues" or words to that effect. 

Also, here is the original advert attached. 

Org Advert for Car.pdf

[BankFodder]

It doesn't matter what wording they used. It doesn't matter what warranty they used. It doesn't even matter what you inadvertently might have agreed to.
They can't contract out of their responsibilities. They can't exclude or limit their liability under the consumer rights act 2015. Section 57 makes it unlawful to exclude or limit your liability.
Section 72 of the 2015 act makes it unlawful to try and use a secondary contract such as some warranty or something to exclude or limit liability.

They have no idea what they are talking about.

As I said before, if you want to deal with this then you will probably have to send them a letter of claim. This gives them 14 days to sort things out or else you will take legal action on day 15.

Don't bluff. If you aren't certain that you will take this legal action then don't send the letter you will simply undermine your credibility.

As I have already said, you should be beginning a chargeback procedure. It is 11.30 in the morning. I suggested this two hours ago. You should have been on the phone and done it by now

[dx100uk]

hey its great they have the CCTV. 

trading standards etc will eat them for breakfast if they get their hands on that evidence.

dx

 

[jimguff]

Evening all. I sent the letter of rejection this morning and then had to get to work so I have not yet contacted the bank to arrange a charge back. I also wanted to check a few things with you guys first. 

1. If I start a charge back and receive the money, how likely is it that it comes back out shortly afterwards if they challenge it? When will they be aware that a charge back has been requested/completed? Any idea? 

2. Is it worth showing up to the dealership in person and making my case? With the chance that other potential customers are around, it may be an idea? 

3. If I do show up in person and it is successful, do I simply cancel the charge back with the bank? 

4. Is it worth emailing back and reiterating the fault codes and providing them with the mechanical reports? (which they currently do not have as they have not been interested in finding out what the problem is).

I'm not under the impression that this will change anything, it's more to cover myself and make sure that they have had all of the appropriate information and I've behaved appropriately should I have to take legal action etc. 

Thanks for reading

J