MET PCN - awaiting for starbucks to open - 20 minute stay - Southgate Park, Stansted

[Help099]

1 Date of the infringement 23/12/2023

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 02/01/2024
 

3 Date received 05/01/2024
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] N
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] N
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N
 

7 Who is the parking company? MET

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Southgate Park, Stansted
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. N

Hey all,

my mum has just received a PCN from the Stansted Southgate carpark,

after a brief read here it's become apparent this place is a bit of a problem.

Starbucks was closed and so she parked there for 20 minutes while waiting, as she couldn't head inside.

My plan is to send an e-mail to [email protected] as I have seen recommended by the MP for Stansted in another post,

i just wanted to run everything through here first and see if there's any advice for what i need to include (or not include) in such an e-mail.

Thanks in advance!

 

NTK.pdf

[dx100uk]

thread title updated.

interesting one here 

MET can issue a ticket because a shop was not yet open even though you go in the shop when i does...urm...

i think if you put words to that effect in your letter to eurogarages they cant but cancel it .

bit like saying you cant park in an airport or a train carpark UNTIL YOUR TRAIN OR AiRCRAFT ARRIVES... (oopps caps)

that is ridiculous!!

 

dx

 

[lookinforinfo]

As the Starbucks car park is for the use of potential Starbucks customers if Starbucks is closed then there is no legitimate interest involved for Met to keep the car park clear for Starbucks patrons. Therefore the £100 is a penalty as the law Lords in the Beavis case alluded to. They stated the penalty clause was invoked but the legitimate interest saved Parking Eye.

Also the driver would have been a Starbucks customer had it been open so entitled to an hours free parking. They obviously did not leave the car park to go to McDonalds either. 

As Bye Laws cover the airport area the PCN cannot comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 which means the keeper cannot be held to pay the PCN-only the driver is now liable. As thousands of motorists are able to legally drive that cr Met will have difficulty in proving the name of the driver especially as the Court do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person.

 

[FTMDave]

I see your mum entered the car park at night at 22:54.

It was perfectly reasonable to expect a fast-food chain near an airport to be open at that time.  In fact I bet several of the service outlets were open in the little complex.

There is a 5-minute consideration period to read the signs & a 10-minurte grace period to leave the car park, so a further 8 minutes to wander over to Starbucks, try the door, realise it's not open, wander back, etc., is also quite reasonable.

That's on top of all the other arguments from dx and LFI as to why this claim is utterly ridiculous.

Wellsy376 and ZicoUK were the first Caggers to go down the Euro Garages route.  Links to their threads are below.

They initially contacted Starbucks who put pressure on Euro Garages which runs the franchise in question, so that is the road to go down.

Your mum needs to e-mail the CEO of Starbucks  https://ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-82463&c=Starbucks UK-General Manager

Explain being a genuine customer, going there in the evening before 11pm, to a branch near an airport, being surprised to find the shop closed, then leaving and not abusing the car park, but after getting the ridiculous demand for £100 - and request they get MET to cancel.

Post a draft here first if you want.

By all means CC to Euro Garages, but make sure the mail goes to Starbucks, they seem to be the "big boss" and the strategy has worked in the past.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/408660-met-anpr-pcn-left-site-southgate-park-stansted-cancelled-by-starbucks/

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/455021-met-parking-services-southgate-park-stansted-left-southgate-park-premises-cancelled-by-euro-garagesstarbucks/#comment-5199818

[Nicky Boy]

As I've already mentioned on a couple of similar threads,  if you read the signage, Starbucks is not mentioned anywhere. The driver is a customer of "Southgate Park" and are entitled to 60 minutes free parking...

[honeybee13]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before. Tripadvisor has loads of negative reviews on this Starbucks and a good proportion are about parking. They must be losing business over this.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g1577375-d5433100-Reviews-Starbucks_Stansted_Drive_Thru-Stansted_Mountfitchet_Essex_England.html

[Help099]

Hi all,

Here is a draft of the e-mail I plan on sending to Alex Rayner. Is there anything else i should be adding?
 

Dear Ms Rayner,

I am e-mailing seeking your help with a parking matter that occurred outside of your branch at Stansted, located at Southgate Park.

Whilst picking me up on the 23rd of December my parents pulled into the carpark of your branch just before 11pm hoping to grab a drink before the drive home. Finding it to be closed they spent a few minutes googling for an alternative before they drove around to collect me.

They have since receieved a £100 Penalty Charge Notice from MET Parking for a 23 minute stay, despite numerous signs around the area alluding to an hour free stay.

As customers who have visited your store multiple times previously, this is a massively disappointing development and we would greatly appreciate any assistance in getting this very unfair matter sorted!

The reference number for the notice is: XXXXXXXX

Thank you in advance for your time,

Kind Regards,
XXXXXXXX

[FTMDave]

The letter reads very well, but to me there are two problems.

One - it needs to come from the person who is in legal dispute with MET, and IIRC that is your mum.

Two - there is no need to include "Whilst picking me up" or "before they drove around to collect me" as that suggests that going to Starbucks wasn't the prime reason for the visit.  Just include the rest about stopping for a drink, thinking the place would be open as it wasn't yet 11pm, only staying a short time while googling for an alternative, etc.

Also in the part where you mention being regular customers any previous proof of purchase would no doubt help.

Also what she received was a Parking Charge Notice, not a Penalty Charge Notice, although, hey, both have the same abbreviation,. it's almost like the parking companies want you to mix them up!

[honeybee13]

Make sure you talk about your parents or 'the driver', don't give any clue about who was driving.

HB

[FTMDave]

Also there is a very good chance that this car park is covered by airport bye-laws, and a private company cannot just waltz in and decide they are the law. 

It would be a good idea to find out one way or the other.  Contact Stansted Airport with their webform  https://www.stanstedairport.com/help/contact-details/  and ask
   - to be e-mailed a copy of the bye-laws
   - to be informed of what area the bye-laws cover and
   - specifically if Southgate Road is covered by bye-laws.

[Help099]

Thanks for this, i'll have a look and see what I can get!

Just to update everybody,

Starbucks told me they would like to pass it on to Euro Garages on Friday,

I told them I would appreciate that but haven't heard anything further back since then!

Edited January 17 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[FTMDave]

5 minutes ago, Help099 said:

Just to update everybody, Starbucks told me they would like to pass it on to Euro Garages on Friday, I told them I would appreciate that but haven't heard anything further back since then!

There are so many of these cases now that eventually I suspect Starbucks will get fed up, so don't wait for them, get on to Euro Garages yourself and quote what Starbucks wrote.  I see you've found [email protected] as an e-mail address.  Someone else found [email protected] so write to one and CC to the other and keep the heat on.

8 minutes ago, Help099 said:

Thanks for this, i'll have a look and see what I can get!

Have a look at the second page of khid's thread  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/463039-met-anpr-pcn-southgate-park-bp-garage-over-stayed-by-10-mins/page/2/#comments  khid tried to phone, got nowhere, but then used the webform today, there are details of what to do.

 

[lookinforinfo]

The managing director of EuroCarParks is [email protected]

The CEO of Euro Garages ltd is  [email protected]

[FTMDave]

Any update here?

Before today there had been a 100% Euro Garages cancellation rate.

Unfortunately bartekskibi has posted today that Euro Garages has refused to cooperate.

[Help099]

No real updates here yet. The Area manager for Starbucks got in contact Friday and said that she’s going to try her best to get involved and get it sorted, but no updates there yet.

E-mailed Eurogarages and have yet to receive any response on that front as well, just a lot of silence all around and nobody else to really communicate with

Oh, I also asked for the Stansted byelaws and it has been forwarded to the relevant department, but again yet to receive anything further

[Help099]

Hey all,

Just dropping in to say no exciting or particularly interesting updates here, other than they have started following up with the overdue harassment letters now and to copy in an example of one of them.

Seems to be radio silence from everywhere else, but i've followed up on the e-mails so let's see what happens next!

 

2023-02-06 MET PCN Final Reminder.pdf

[dx100uk]

you ignore everything until/unless you ever get a letter of Claim.

dx

 

[Nicky Boy]

On 25/01/2024 at 12:43, Help099 said:

Oh, I also asked for the Stansted byelaws and it has been forwarded to the relevant department, but again yet to receive anything further

Looking at other threads, it seems that the land doesn't belong to the airport.

Take a look at the PDF upload here...

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/463807-metdcbl-anpr-pcn-claimform-no-other-paperwork-i-moved-overstay-346-southgate-park-stansted-cm24-ipy/#comment-5239487

From the contract document, it looks like the landowner is a company called Tabacon Stansted 2 Limited.

So presumably Bylaws aren't part of the equation.

[lookinforinfo]

All the major airports in the UK are covered by the Airports Act and therefore BYElaws are in operation there regardless of who owns the land.

[Nicky Boy]

Ohhh!

So, we need to know where the Airport boundary is?

[FTMDave]

Yes, we do.

Stansted denied to another Cagger that Southgate Road was in the bye-laws area.

But then they would, wouldn't they?

We need to get our hands on a copy of the bye-laws.

[Nicky Boy]

This looks useful... Page 8

Design___Access_Statement_-_checked.pdf

[FTMDave]

Great work NB.

[Nicky Boy]

And...

Page 44 upwards

STN_interim_masterplan.pdf

[lolerz]

Cross referencing the document Nicky Boy posted (Namely page 45 which shows the airport boundary) with Google Satellite Maps

I am now fairly certainly convinced that Southgate Park (Both McDonalds, Starbucks and the Premier Inn on the other side of the little area) IS indeed within the airport boundry for Stanstead.

Page 46 states that area is Ancillary. It's there to support Stanstead's operations (which with a hotel and restaurants make sense!)

Airport Bye Laws therefore apply.