F&F secured loan with Elderbridge (old First Plus/Barclays) - coerced debt and selling house

[Myfamily]

Hi Ell-enn, thanks again for coming back to me.

 

I wrote a more detailed letter to my council tax department when I returned and they were very helpful, I will amend slightly and send to Elederbridge. I am gonna have to e-mail it for the time being (printer out of ink! and no money to buy any at the moment!) but will call them tomorrow to tell them I have sent an e-mail and will send a hard copy asap.

 

Thye have received other e-mails from me but for some reason will not reply by e-mail which is annoying but hopefully it will be enough, I will also do a scan of the death cert.

 

Is there anything else you think I should add, of shall I post it here so you can have a look first?

Thanks

[Ell-enn]

Could t it out at your local library ? or anywhere else that has a printing service ? I really think it ought to be sent by mail - sometimes these companies just don't read the emails never mind reply.

[Myfamily]

oh ok, didn't think about the library.

 

Shall I post here first just so you can see what you think - or maybe PM if you don't mind?

[Ell-enn]

Of course - happy to look it over

[Myfamily]

HI Ell -Enn, hope you're well.

 

I sent off the e-mail to Elderbridge, I was going to send of the hard copy today, as I now have ink for my printer (my local library wouldn't let me use the printer!) , I got a letter form elderbridge on Monday saying I had 10 days to contact them and make a suitable arrangement or they would instruct their solicitors to take further action and aks the court to grant permission to set an eviction date.

 

Then today I got a letter from them acknowledging my complaint saying that they will conduct a thorough investigation into my concerns, once they have completed this they will write with their findings, if it takes longer than 4 weeks they will send me a letter informing me of progress.

 

What do I do now?

[Ell-enn]

I think you should wait for their response to your complaint but make sure you make payments on time while you are waiting.

[Myfamily]

Oh absolutely will do, next payment due on 28th but I'm making it tomorrow, taking no chances, thanks Ell-enn

[Myfamily]

Hi All,

 

I received the letter from Elderbridge mentioned in post #503 I have not yet had a final decision

 

Today a man rings my doorbell, saying he was here on behalf of Elderbridge!

I told him I made a complaint and have not had a reply yet (just an acknowledgment),

 

I explained that I have made payment at the end of Aug, Sept and will do so again at the end of Oct.

 

To be fair he was nice man

- he doesn't work directly for elderbridge (independent)

- I totally forgot to take his name or anything as I was just shocked he was there!

 

He said they sent him to get income and expense details,

I told him I have already sent that to them, he was surpised an made notes,

he said to me that he couldn't see what else they wanted then.

 

what on earth are they playing at!??!

[Ell-enn]

Unbelievable - you need to make sure they don't charge you £100 for his visit. It's a shame you didn't get his name or business card. You now need to write to them stating you did not ask for a visit from their representative and will not be paying for it !

[dx100uk]

shouldn't be discussing ANY pers info with a doorstepper

NONE OF THEIR RUDDY BUSINESS.

 

 

dx

[Myfamily]

You're totally right DX I was just taken aback really!

He wasn't in any way agressive he was actually very poilte (older guy)

once I said that I had made a complaint and was waiting to hear from them,

I explained that I had made payments recently and he looked at his notes and confirmed that he could see I had

- he said he could not see what they wanted him to do.

 

As I said - a very nice man.

I explained that I made a complaint because although I have given them the info they wanted

- on my last contact with them I felt that the person I spoke to did not believe that my father in law had just died

- and thast he was being overly diffcult and not very helpful He said he thought that was not very nice at all,

told him my next payment is due at the end of Oct which will be paid.

 

Ell-enn - Yes I wish I had got his details

- was very silly of me

- I was shocked and actually shaking when he frist said who he was here on behalf of.

 

 

I think I should write to them, not sure where to begin!

[Ell-enn]

I'll draft you up a letter to send re the visit. Might be tomorrow though

[Myfamily]

Oh thank you Ell-enn, you're a life saver! He did also mention when I said that I had already been in contact with Elderbridge after missing the July payment that they were looking to go back to court and it just scared the life out of me!

Also don't know if it makes any difference but they are not reporting on my credit file properly. Despite making payments in April, May, June, and August, the balance showing on Noddle has not changed! Any thoughts about that?

Sorry to bother you, I wondered if you had time for that doorstep visit letter, don't want to let them get away with that behaviour !

[Ell-enn]

Hi, glad you reminded me sorry, been a bit busy and forgot....

 

 

(Your address at top right)

 

(Their address left)

 

Date

 

Mortgage Account No:

 

Dear Sirs,

 

COMPLAINT

 

On (date) I had a visit at my home from a gentlemen claiming to be there at your request to ascertain our financial situation. This gave me quite a shock as I had at no time requested such a visit, nor had any prior notification that this was to take place. I informed the gentleman that I knew nothing about such a visit and that you had all the relevant financial information from us already. He agreed that the visit was unwarranted and unnecessary and left.

 

Therefore, please treat this letter as a complaint under your official complaints procedure.

 

Given that I had no opportunity to either agree or refuse this unwanted and unnecessary service I do not expect to be charged for it.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

etc etc

 

 

 

 

Send by recorded delivery and keep a copy - make sure you get the signed for receipt from the royalmail website to prove they got it.

[Myfamily]

Thanks Ell-enn - really appreciate it what do you think about post 512, the amount on my noddle report hasn'tchanged - is that weird?

[Myfamily]

Hi all, It's been a while with this one. but I will hopefully soon be able to pay this loan off. The problem is I asked for a redemption figure, which they came back with £36,000 in court costs from our case 4 years ago.

in this hearing, trial and last hearing (Jan 2014) they gave the court a breakdown of costs amounting to £30,000. at the trial in 2013 - the judge said the costs were reserved to the next hearing and that "this is going to a rather unusual situation where there will be a sort of win both sides,"

we won the argument that the term in the contract allowing them to vary the interest rate was unfair but they did still get the SPO as we were still in arrears after they had re-calculated our loan.

Now as far as I can see the costs for the SPO would have been very low as all they had to show was that we were in arrears, their breakdown shows that they spent a lot of money on partner solicitors, associate solicitors and assistant solicitors. the trial in oct 2013 was a few hours long yet they're claiming 17.50 hours! including travel (£2,887.00) the assistant solicitor costs are 28.50 hours costing £4,700 and so on. No I believe that most of their costs were on fighting me on the unfair contract terms argument, and as they lost on that front the should have to pay their costs for it.

where it gets complicated is that in the hearing in 2014 there was no mention of who the costs were awarded to - they were not discussed at all, I e-mailed the court and they said "the court did not order either party to pay costs in the orders they can see."

can you tell me what you think about this? also it's gone from £30,000 to £36,000, seems like they are adding interest - are they allowed to do that?

any advise greatly appreciated.

 

but the short version is...

I got taken to court for repossession, I fought back with the unfair term in my contract - they were awarded an SPO but I also won my argument - 4 years later I ask them for a redemption figure which they came back with £36,000 in court costs from our case 4 years ago.

In this hearing, trial and last hearing (Jan 2014) they gave the court a breakdown of costs amounting to £30,000. at the trial in 2013 - the judge said the costs were reserved to the next hearing and that "this is going to a rather unusual situation where there will be a sort of win both sides,"

we won the argument that the term in the contract allowing them to vary the interest rate was unfair but they did still get the SPO as we were still in arrears after they had re-calculated our loan.

Now as far as I can see the costs for the SPO would have been very low as all they had to show was that we were in arrears, their breakdown shows that they spent a lot of money on partner solicitors, associate solicitors and assistant solicitors. the trial in Oct 2013 was a few hours long yet they're claiming 17.50 hours! including travel (£2,887.00) the assistant solicitor costs are 28.50 hours costing £4,700 and so on. So I believe that most of their costs were on fighting me on the unfair contract terms argument, and as they lost on that front the should have to pay their costs for it.

where it gets complicated is that in the hearing in 2014 there was no mention of who the costs were awarded to - they were not discussed at all, I e-mailed the court and they said "the court did not order either party to pay costs in the orders they can see."

can you tell me what you think about this? also it's gone from £30,000 to £36,000, seems like they are adding interest - are they allowed to do that?

Also I noticed that the figure given for me to pay at the last hearing around 103,000. but the redemption figure they've given me minus the court costs is approx. £104,000, how is this possible 4 years later!! - when I have been paying?

I am about to do a SAR to them - is this a good idea?

any advise greatly appreciated. and any thoughts about whether I am legally bound to pay costs at this time please - or can I write to them saying no costs were awarded etc?

[dx100uk]

certainly sar time!

[Myfamily]

I assume I send this is to elderbridge who are now administering the first plus loans? - they're not a dca or anything. they have been through the courts to have they name put in place as claimant instead first plus for our old case as well.

 

what are your thoughts on the costs question? - can they charge them? - they were not ordered by the courts - they did submit their costs claim but they were not discussed at all and as I said the judge acknowledged this in the trial and said that she would discuss costs at the next hearing but that this was a kind of win win on both sides. cost were not discussed at all in the final hearing, and the court docs amount do not include them either.

[sgtbush]

Id wait until the new legislation comes into effect. I think its in may or June.

It costs you nothing and they have 30 days to reply instead of currently £10 and 40 days

[Myfamily]

thanks Sgt, but I really need to get the ball rolling here - looking to get them paid off asap!

 

I really need to know if I'm barking up the wrong tree by saying that the court costs that they are asking for are 1) not reasonable and 2) are not to be paid by me as the court didn't order it?

[BankFodder]

thanks Sgt, but I really need to get the ball rolling here - looking to get them paid off asap!

 

you may want to get the ball rolling but I still suggest that you wait until 25 May and the new GDPR regime. The deadline is 30 days rather than 40 days and I can imagine that they will be far more rigourous in satisfying a request under the new regime. Given that it is 1 May, even if you apply straightaway, it will only add 15 days extra to the time for the disclosure and I think that they are likely to be more fastidious if you apply under the new rules. It's up to you

[SuperVillain]

I really need to know if I'm barking up the wrong tree by saying that the court costs that they are asking for are 1) not reasonable and 2) are not to be paid by me as the court didn't order it?

 

See post 481 in your last thread - posted by Andyorch.

 

That seems to suggest that there is a presumption that the mortgage lender is entitled to costs therefore it won't necessarily be mentioned on the Court Order, however the t&c's of the mortgage will outline what they will seek to claim.

[ericsbrother]

No they cant add interest to a cost as there is no credit agreement for this and they know it. Also as costs weren't ordered they cant claim them.

However, they arent going to suddenly drop the matter just because you have pointed out they are in the wrong so you might have to risk things by going to the financial ombudsman over what exactly is in the terms of the mortgage as far as recoverable costs go.

 

As you haven't paid these costs them you cant do anything to recover the money. when the matter goes to the ombudsman a junior will scan your complaint into a computer which will the pick out key phrases and churn out a likely response and that will be sent out.

 

It will probably be utter nonsense because it will be based on irrelevant data but the junior doing this wont know any better so you should start by finding any other case you can that is relevant to use as an example so at least you can make them produce a paper trail to show what they have looked at before the computer says no and that gives you grounds to take the matter further.

 

Expect the whole thing to take up to 2 years to get to the top of the heap and a proper high level consideration.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Andyorch
Paras

[Myfamily]

Hi Super villain, I see what you're saying but I would understand that in a standard SPO but in this case the judge did mention costs in the trial and said that they would be decided at the next hearing and that it would be an unusual case because although they won the possession part I won the unfair contract term part.

I suspect most of their costs were on fighting this part, I don't think £36,000 is reasonable either!. I don't know but maybe someone else here does - as guide in a standard possession hearing where the bank wins how much are costs normally??

also the breakdown they provided for costs was just slightly over £30,000 how is it now £36,000 4 years later - are they adding interest?? are they allowed to do that?

Oh dear! well I can't afford to take 2 years over this I need to get out now, Money situation is bad and we are sinking fast!

can anyone help me with a letter to them please?

I need to explain that they cannot charge the costs as the court didn't order it etc, I don't think they will want us in court again as I believe they have too much to lose but I can't afford to wait 2 years

- need to go in hard with them now, I want to make them an offer which I am happy to include the cost of repossession action only but not the costs that they racked up trying to disprove my claim of an unfair contract term.

hi all, can anyone help with the questions in my last post?

and also does anyone know where the thing is that calculates your loan decreasing when payments are made, I'm sure it was a spreadsheet here? I want to see what my loan balance should be since the court case and compare to what they have given me as it's doesn't make sense.

I also read somewhere that if the courts gives a money judgement this figure should include balance arrears and any costs awarded. her's was Around 103,000. now the settlement figure I have from elderbridge is around 103,000 (without costs!) 4 years later! how? something is not right!

[dx100uk]

http://www.financecalcs.co.uk/smartcalcs/index.html