rjgreaves V HSBC ***SETTLED IN FULL***

[moose73]

MCOL has now changed to Defence. The start button has dissappeared.

 

What is happening?

[Michael Browne]

It means the claim is now transferred to your local court who will send you their defence and an AQ

[moose73]

is it best to use the AQ in the template library or the new one from http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionaires.html

[Michael Browne]

Both. Use the template to fill in the Aq and attach the draft order. Then in section G (Other Information):

 

 

 

The Claimant proposes the attached draft order for directions, for the courts due consideration. If ordered, the Claimant believes these directions will allow the overriding objectives to be furthered in that they will fully identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the true cost incurred by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the UTCCR 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a service (which is denied), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that the claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

[moose73]

Michael Browne - thanks for your help

[moose73]

sent back the AQ today. It said on the form it had been transfered to my local court. As its under £1500, there is no fee, so rather than hang on, I got it off to the court now.

 

Their defence was all standard stuff seen elsewhere on this forum.

 

Whats next? Will I actally have to go to court? BTW my claim is for £890.

[lateralus]

saw your posts on netty's thread and thought i'd revive yours -

we've seen this before and my advice is this - did you do it properly - meaning - did you use the advanced spreadsheet where you put the balance in at the time of the charge and it picks up some, all or none of each interest debit OR did you just plonk all the o/d interest from your statements onto the spreadsheet or list of charges and do the 8% on the lot. if you did it correctly, using vampiress' advanced s/s then you can and should defend it - just send a rejection - nice and polite but say you are going for the lot. if you didn't do it that way - then seriously consider the offer as you won't be able to defend it (you could wait them out to see if they offer more - but i think the term thin ice applies)

so - that's my advice - which is worth what you paid for it! good luck - i'm hoping you did it correctly and can continue for the whole enchalada!

[moose73]

01/07/2005£9.69-£731.09£0.00£3.16

[moose73]

01/07/2005 £9.69 -£731.09 £0.00 £3.16

 

this was one of them from the spreedsheet. is this correct?

I was claiming £3.16 on this particular item

[moose73]

We have reviewed your claim with our client in conjunction with the schedule of charges provided. We are at a loss to understand why you have sought to recover charges and interest from our client and additionally 8% on the total charges and interest. Please confirm to us the legal basis of your claim in relation to recovery from our client of what would seem to be overdraft interest applied to your account.

 

Our client's interest rates are well publicised in respect to both formal and informal overdrafts. You appear to be seeking a refund overdraft interest on your account. It is, of course, a condition of your borrowing with our client that you will pay interest at the agreed rates on that borrowing. As such there is no question of our client refunding interest when your account was in an overdrawn state.

 

HSBC is entirely confident that its charges are reasonable, are properly and fully disclosed in its terms and conditions and published price list and you must have been aware that you would incur such charges depending upon how you managed your financial affairs. HSBC is confident that it was entitled to apply these charges and that it would successfully resist your claim in the Courts.

 

HSBC is, however, mindful of the management time and irrecoverable legal costs associated with litigation in the small claims regime. For those commercial reasons alone, and without any admission of liability whatsoever, HSBC is prepared to make an ex gratia payment to you in the sum of £695.61 inclusive of court fee and interest. That payment is made in full and final settlement of your claims arising from the charges applied to your account in the period referred to above and by accepting this payment you agree not to make any other claims relating to charges for the period stipulated above. HSBC also, reasonably, requires your confirmation that you will treat this payment as confidential.

 

should I be worried?

[lateralus]

so you are saying on 1 july 05 they charged 9.69 interest and the balance at that point was -731.09 (if that next column is the interst free o/d column - i'd have left it blank rather than put 000 but doesn't really matter) and it picked up 3.16 on the running total - looks fine to me.

did you use the vampiress' one in the library above? from this link:

6. Interest calculation spreadsheets? i think it's fine - so i'd just reject the offer and go for it. hope that helps.

 

that letter is standard - i'd reject it.

[moose73]

yes it was vamps spreedsheet. I have used the rejection letter no6 from the templates and posted back today.

[TUTTSI]

Hi RJ

Which rate of interest did you claim 8% or contractual.

Thanks

DS

[moose73]

Hi RJ

Which rate of interest did you claim 8% or contractual.

Thanks

DS

 

it was 8% and done on MCOL

[moose73]

Received this letter today from DG after rejecting their last offer:

 

We refer to your letter dated 8th March 2007.

 

Our client will not be increasing their offer as you have failed to address the points raised in our letter. You remain to request that overdraft interest be refunded to you. It is a condition of you borrowing with our client that you will pay interest at the agreed rates on that borrowing. Therefore for the avoidance of doubt, our client will not consider your claim in this respect. Furthermore you have failed to confirm the legal basis of your claim in relation to overdraft interest which has been applied to your account.

 

 

The statutory interest, pursuant to s69 County Court Act 1984, which you seek to claim is, in our opinion, adequate recompense in respect of the charge from the date it was applied to the date of your claim. We do not believe that you are entitled to any interest over and above that which you seek to claim at the Court statutory rate. If you believe this not to be the case then please confirm to us the relevant legislation upon which you intend to rely on

 

 

Therefore our Client's offer in the sum of £695.61 remains open for your acceptance and we invite you to give this offer serious consideration.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

should I accept this? by the way, the court confirmed that they missed the deadline for the AQ submission, but were gving them 2 more weeks!

not much point in having deadlines is there?

[lateralus]

have you seen bong's marvelous win today - what a thread!

note this portion of a letter she wrote to dg;

the defendant tries to make the case that the claimant has no valid grounds for claiming the overdraft interest that is claimed. This is to misconceive the grounds of the claim. The defendant’s statement that “the charges were, at any one time, a very small part [of the claimant’s overdraft borrowing]” demonstrates that the defendant has fundamentally misunderstood the basis of the claimant’s claim for overdraft interest. If one is overdrawn by say £1,000 and the cumulative charges taken at that point totalled £1,500, the effect will be that had the charges not been taken the account would not have been overdrawn at all. It is immaterial that the latest charge or even the latest couple of charges only formed a very small part of the overdraft borrowing – it is the cumulative effect of the charges that matters. The claimant’s claim for overdraft interest has been meticulously calculated and double checked to ensure that it only ever relates to the cumulative charges within the overdrawn balance of account at the point that the overdraft interest was debited. Mostly this means that all overdraft interest has been claimed, and validly so, and on other occasions this means that only an apportionment or fraction of the interest is appropriate, and the schedule to the claim reflects this.

 

take a look and see what other little titbits she has come up with

 

she just showed today that she got money back for over 6 years and at contractual interest rates - what a champ!

 

just look to bong for a little inspiration today!

i'm adding a bit more of bong's stuff:

This claim for overdraft interest forms part of the principal claim and is nothing to do with my claim for interest on top which arises out of the fact that I have been deprived of the use of my money since the date of the application of each charge, whilst HSBC has been unjustly enriched by these amounts.

[moose73]

I deceided to take their offer as its better than nothing. probably could carry on fighting but I don't really want to do the court bundle and all that paperwork.

 

Its a bit disappointing that the courts are so leanient with the deadlines. A deadline shout be exactly that. We are working to them so why don't the banks? because the courts let them get away with it:-x

 

anyway, I have asked for a cheque and crossed out the confidentiallity clause. Will they send me a cheque or try and put it into the hsbc bank accounts? (2 claims for different current accounts, 1 has nothing in and the other is £460 in the red from when they withdrew the overdraft, which is on my payplan payments) my worry is they wipe the overdraft and I can only get the remainder:sad:

[TUTTSI]

Well I guess that is Congratulations in order, shame though you did not stick it out for the full amount. You did what you had to do and I must say that the court bundle was no joy to do and was extremely time consuming.

DS

[moose73]

still not received anything from DG and also checked the account online.

 

Also spoke to court today who said that they didn't submit their AQ (was due on 10th March) and was goint to go to the judge probably next week.

(This court doesn't rush!)

 

what the score here?

[moose73]

Letter received today from DG:

 

Thank you for returning the signed settlement letter.

 

We note your request that any ex gratia payment made to you is by way of a cheque.

 

To enable a cheque to be raised to you the bank will need to credit your account with the funds and then debit it and send a cheque to you. This is rather cumbersome and you may prefer to confirm that you are content for a refund to be made into your account (which you are then at liberty to withdraw -up to your agreed overdraft limit). If you do insist on a cheque payment we would ask that you note the position and ensure you do not withdraw the funds that will show upon your account as these will be debited to enable a cheque to be raised to you. We envisage that you will be in receipt of the settlement cheque within the next 7-10 working days. If the cheque does not arrive, as advised, please contact us and we will contact our client

 

Once you have received the agreed settlement funds, we consider that the matter will be concluded. Upon this basis we shall be pleased if you will write to the Chorley County Court, quoting the Claim Number, and confirm that the matter has been settled with you direct and that the claim may be marked as completed.

 

Whilst writing, in relation to conclusion ofthe matter, we shall be pleased if you will sign and return the enclosed copy ofthis letter to us for our records.

 

Yours faithfully

 

DG

 

I want to avoid them sending this to one of the accounts that I claimed for as there is an overdraft on this still, which is part of a payplan agreed monthly payment. The other account is in credit. What are my options?

[givememymoney]

What a load of Cr@p that letter is. The money is yours and yours to choose what you want to do with it. All they need to do is send a cheque to you the money does not need to go near to your account and you can put it where you like. You need to write to them and tell them that as it is your money they can send you a cheque and you will do with that money as you please.

[moose73]

sent them this by fax and post:

 

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Response to settlement offer.

 

Dear Ms Tomlinson

 

Thank you for your letter dated 19th March 2007. Please arrange for the funds to be posted to my HSBC account number xxxxxxxxx and I will arrange a transfer to my Halifax current account.

 

It should however be noted that the claim for overdraft interest incurred due to each charge being applied to my account was a valid claim and withdrawn by myself as a gesture of goodwill to bring this matter to a speedy close.

 

To clarify, my claim for overdraft interest has been meticulously calculated and double checked to ensure that it only ever relates to the cumulative charges within the overdrawn balance of account at the point that the overdraft interest was debited. Mostly this means that only an apportionment or fraction of the interest is appropriate, and the schedule to the claim reflects this. This claim for overdraft interest forms part of the principal claim and is nothing to do with my claim for interest on top which arises out of the fact that I have been deprived of the use of my money since the date of the application of each charge, whilst HSBC has been unjustly enriched by these amounts. Whilst you may consider that the charges and overdraft interest were not a loss in the sense that they were taken when the account was in overdraft, rather than from a credit balance, my case is that had these charges and the overdraft interest on them not been applied, for at least part of the time, my account would have been in credit, and even when the account would have been in overdraft the taking of the charges meant that money paid into the account was swallowed up to pay the charges rather than being available for my own means.

 

Many people are claiming for this proportion of overdraft interest which is being settled in full by yourselves/HSBC. Therefore if the funds are not paid by 23/3/07 as detailed above, I will rescind this settlement and continue to seek the full amount through the court. It has also been noted that your allocation questionnaire was not submitted by the 10/3/07 deadline and as of today (20/3/07) will be passed on to the district judge at Chorley County Court.

 

I look forward to hearing from you

 

Yours sincerely

[lateralus]

i see you found bong's thread.............

nice letter!

[moose73]

That seemed to do the trick, cheque arrived today in the post from HSBC!

[nettyg]

WOOWOOO AND ABOUT TIME TOO!!!

CONGRATULATIONS RJ I'M REALLY PLEASED FOR YOU :D