unknown Bus Lane PCN - now CDER - Notice of Enforcement - first contact for pcn I was unaware of

[BillyS]

Hi CAG'ers,

I've just received what looks like a standard letter from CDER group titled 'Notice of Enforcement' dated 12/06 giving me until the 26/06 to pay or have my goods seized.

The enforcement relates to a bus lane offence that I was unaware of from late summer 2022, (driving a motorbike signs change so frequently in London it appears I may have been unaware i'd strayed into one which isn't accessible to mbikes, but still was to bikes)

In checking the details on my v5 it seems I may not have updated my home address for that bike with dvla and hadn't been aware of any action to date. 

This Notice of Enforcement from CDER is the first document i've received. 

As this is a PCN, should I just settle up with CDER, both the 'debt' of £200+ plus 'compliance stage fee' of £75 or is there any advice on steps I should take to ensure the amount apparently due does not increase.  (I'm currently unemployed and can ill afford this amount, let alone any increases).

Any advice much appreciated.

 

[dx100uk]

hold your horses.....re paying that full sum

it doesnt matter that you forgot to update your V5C, although it's not an ideal situation, you did not received the actual PCN as it went to an old address .

you can still use the forms here.

make sure you read ALL the posts there and understand the complete situation.

 

as for the bailiff, there is no right of forced entry, so not alot they can do and things will be reset once your forms are accepted by the authority. if you wish tell then you have sent the forms off. if they dont like it TOUGH!!

 

dx

 

[Manxman in exile]

@BillyS  -  assuming you follow dx100's advice, please let us know how your application gets on. 

Although he says:

15 hours ago, dx100uk said:

... it doesnt matter that you forgot to update your V5C, ...

I suspect that if you were at fault in not updating your V5C, then you might find that the TEC will not automatically accept it, and will instead "... contact the local authority to ask them whether or not they will allow the motorist to" make the application.  If you have failed to update your V5C when you should have done, it's vitally important that you give an acceptable explanation as to why you are out of time, otherwise the LA will likely tell the court that they should not accept the application.  (See post #4 by @Bailiff Advice in the thread linked to by dx100.)

 

15 hours ago, dx100uk said:

... so not alot they can do and things will be reset once your forms are accepted by the authority. if you wish tell then you have sent the forms off. if they dont like it TOUGH!!

I must admit I'm not 100% sure about this, but if the bailffs have a warrant, doesn't it remain enforceable up to and until any statutory declaration is accepted by the TEC?  The fact the OP has submited forms doesn't of itself make any order unenforceable does it?  (Also I'm not sure from the thread you linked to that the local authority will accept the forms.  How can you be so certain?)

 

15 hours ago, dx100uk said:

... as for the bailiff, there is no right of forced entry, so not alot they can do...

Also - if the OP still has his motorbike and if it's on a public road, couldn't it be seized without any forced entry?

(As I say, I'm not 100% certain on these issues and just want to try to ensure the OP fully understands the situation).

[dx100uk]

once a bailiff knows forms are in they know it's a losing situation....

they are not used regardless to the laws that exist...

i doubt a bike would ever be left on a public road...but thats irrelevant once forms are accepted.

dx

[BillyS]

Thanks DX et al. 

PE2/PE3 completed, scanned and returned (emailed) to Northampton for their consideration.

As to the reasons, while I have no 'proof' I was genuinely surprised that my address wasn't updated when I moved house, I would usually do this as a matter of course, I updated my other vehicle and would usually do all together.  This was all at the beginning of Covid (moved 1 week before the first lockdown) so things were a little crazy around then, I have no idea why or how this could have been missed otherwise.

[dx100uk]

[BillyS]

I submitted the PE2/PE3 by email on early last week, received automated response from TEC confirming receipt and that the process may take 6-8 weeks, particularly for the out of time application.  I'm rather nervous that I've had nothing in terms of confirmation of a pause in the action.

Does anyone know the process,  particularly whether I should hear that the form is accepted for consideration (rather than just automated email response that email is received) as it is apparently only at this point CDER pause their actions.  Also whether I will be informed as to the outcome, at least before CDER recommence enforcement action. 

[dx100uk]

stop worrying.

you dont have engage with cder at all. there is no right of forced entry

if they come and you want too.

simply film them on your phone telling them to go away as you've filed the appeal forms.

nothing they can really do.

 

dx

 

[BillyS]

I would have to hope i'm home in order to record them, and forced entry wouldn't be necessary to seize my goods / vehicles, hence my preference in understanding what the process actually is (or at least should be) to try and ensure everything is correctly followed.

[dx100uk]

what do you mean, forced entry not necessary? it cant happen!! and the car must be yours totally and worth atleast the money+fees, and it just doesnt happen like that. they are hot air...

[BillyS]

To be clear, my vehicles (and other goods) are in publicly accessible areas.  'Forced entry' would not be necessary to gain access. 

So back to the question, does anyone know what the process is, in terms of communication points that should be expected, if any.

[Manxman in exile]

On 26/06/2023 at 01:55, Manxman in exile said:

...Also - if the OP still has his motorbike and if it's on a public road, couldn't it be seized without any forced entry?

(As I say, I'm not 100% certain on these issues and just want to try to ensure the OP fully understands the situation).

 

On 26/06/2023 at 03:56, dx100uk said:

.... i doubt a bike would ever be left on a public road...but thats irrelevant once forms are accepted.

dx

 

On 06/07/2023 at 07:25, BillyS said:

To be clear, my vehicles (and other goods) are in publicly accessible areas.  'Forced entry' would not be necessary to gain access. 

So back to the question, does anyone know what the process is, in terms of communication points that should be expected, if any.

I hope this forum has not given questionable advice...

[dx100uk]

notice of removal first.

[BillyS]

Further reading has found the following,

"The Traffic Enforcement Centre will acknowledge receipt of your forms and will notify the council, Transport for London or Highways England (in the case of a Dart Charge) or Merseyflow that they must inform their relevant bailiff company to suspend enforcement for a few weeks while a decision is reached as to whether or not to accept your application and cancel the debt. 

As long as the forms are submitted to the Traffic Enforcement Centre by email before 4pm, all bailiff enforcement will be placed ‘on hold’ by midday the following working day"

"You will receive a decision from the Traffic Enforcement Centre approx 4 weeks after submitting your forms. If accepted, the letter will advise you that the Order for Recovery has been revoked.

You should receive a new Penalty Charge Notice from the council (or Dart Charge etc) a short while after. If refused, you will receive a letter from the Traffic Enforcement Centre advising that permission had not been granted to allow you to file your witness statement late (out of time)."

All that said, today I received a letter from the Local Authority confirming they are NOT CONTESTING the Out of Time Statutory Declaration, nothing yet from the TEC. 

Hopefully this means that the process is reset and I receive the PCN at the discounted rate stage and say goodbye to CDER in this instance.  I will continue to update the thread for completeness.

[BillyS]

In the 2 weeks since the last post, I've had nothing at all from Northampton so plan on contacting them tomorrow to confirm they have received the same information from Lambeth and case enforcement is cancelled officially.  

That said, Lambeth council have been in contact to inform me that, following the previous letter 'no contest' they have reset the PCN back to the initial stage, with discount, they have informed CDER that the matter is no longer with them and told me they informed Northampton (this was the initial letter I received from them referred to in my post above, July 13th).

With that in mind, and pending confirmation from Northampton that the enforcement actions are now over, I am now minded to pay the pcn at discounted rate for the bus lane contravention.

Just my opinion ...... The people I've spoken to at Lambeth council have been fair, engaging and helpful throughout our conversations and this process (opposite approach to the conversations with CDER).  A very pleasant change from the various Local Government, DCA's and Bailiff organisations I've variously dealt with over the years on similar matters.  In my view, a great example of how these matters could and should be approached.

[dx100uk]

if its been reset bailiffs are dead you wont get confirmation.

just pay it and move on.

glad we could help.

 

dx

 

[BillyS]

I no longer have any concerns relating to bailiffs.

Nonetheless, I would have expected proper notification from Northampton as to the revised legal status, as per all (albeit very limited) information published regarding the process.