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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

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New strategy for Allocation Questionnaires


BankFodder
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If you have used the new strategy, was it successful?  

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  1. 1. If you have used the new strategy, was it successful?

    • Yes - the draft was made into an order
    • No - standard/other directions were ordered


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No probs.:)

 

No, the next ones a valid question as its not entirely obvious from Natwests defence what basis they defend on - most of it just refutes the POC. The service charge statement of evidence is most suitable though, due to the section of the defence you posted above.

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Thank you for that. So I now know which statement to use, the only other thing thats left now is regarding terms and conditions, I've been reading a lot of threads about these and have heard a few conflicting opinions(some people here have been advised not to bother but I'm sure this can't be right?!)

 

i've been going through old bank papers and I've found a couple of things;

 

4 different letters relating to increses of Credit Zone overdraft facility which have Overdraft Limit T and C's attached, they are dated;

 

may 03

april 04

july 04

mar 05

jun 05

 

the only problem is all of these letters refer to 'enclosed terms and conditions ' leaflets........which I don't have(at least not the ones that relate to that specific time)

 

I've also found a couple of letters from mar 02 and feb 02 informing me that DD's have not been paid and that I'm going to incurr charges.

 

Regarding old bank paperwork thats all i have, should I chuck it all in? Or do i just go on the N west website and download current T and C's and leave it at that.

 

This is I think the issue I'm most confused about as I'm claiming for two N/W accounts in the same claim and over the last 6 years there have been periods when they have been Advantage Gold Accounts and periods where they haven't. I suppose in a nutshell I'm asking whether I need to include T and C's for both types of account that cover every year that I'm claiming for.......if so I don't know how the hell I'm gonna get em!!!

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Well the bank have to provide the recent ones as per one of their clauses of the order.

 

Ideally you'd have T&C's covering the whole time, but just as many sets as you can get really.

 

In your case its not going to matter much anyway tbh. The bank won't comply with the directions.

 

Which court is it by the way?

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Thts great, so just get hold of as many as poss and put them in, is it worth stickin in those two old letters i mentioned regarding returned DD's dya think? Just out of interest why does it not matter much in my case?! (not that I'm paranoid or anything!!!)

 

Oh yeah, Its Woolwich County Court, London

 

G.

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Yeah, stick them in.

 

Becouse you have had the draft directions ordered - if they wanted to defend in court they would have to comply with their part of the order first!! Which is almost impossible for them to do. They simply won't disclose their costs.

 

Get your part submitted in full and on time and your more or less home and dry.

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Got a small dilemma here guys,

 

Got to file my AQ by Monday,

On their defence they did manage to find one single small error on my spreadsheet of charges.

The charge itself is still legit, however I had somehow manage to put the date of it down as being one month earlier than it actually was.

Now,this does not affect the total of charges claimed... however it does have a small effect upon the interest charged thereon by myself.

 

Now, can I just put an amended schedule of charges in with my AQ, and bearing in mind that this would actually be bringing my claim total down slightly, I cannot see how they or court could object?

 

Am I right here?

 

How could I go about this?

 

Where on the AQ should I mention it?

 

and any suggestions anyone on how to phrase it?

 

Should I also send the amended schedule by fax to the Solicitors Monday, and state on AQ that they recieved it same day?

 

Should I also send an amended schedule of my own interest charged thereon, bearing in mind that although the amendment will have brought the total claim down a tiny amount, this will be countermanded by the fact that time has passed since, and so interest will have risen again?

 

 

Any help anyone ?

PM

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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Bump....

 

or should I just not bother?

 

Will it just cause unnecessary complications.

 

It's a trifling sum, in their favour, and I don't see it as being a cause for a call for strikeout.

 

anyone ??

 

(ps; anyone means GaryH mostly) :)

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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PM - Do not amend we must be talking pence here. You do not get struck out for such a trivial mistake, in any event you would get a warning in the event of a strike out.

 

The courts would look dimly upon the other side making an issue of this, on the basis of cost proportionality.

If I have been helpful please click on my star and add a comment.

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PM - Do not amend we must be talking pence here. You do not get struck out for such a trivial mistake, in any event you would get a warning in the event of a strike out.

 

The courts would look dimly upon the other side making an issue of this, on the basis of cost proportionality.

Totally agree. I can't believe they've even attempted to make an issue out of it. The court certainly wouldn't IMHO - its trivial.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Thanks guys.

 

Good sense, well spoken once again !!

 

After some of the tactics and tricks we see and hear of, it does make us all a little edgy about even the smallest details.

 

What's the concensus of opinion also regards submitting a defence response with an AQ?

 

Gut instinct (and a desire to actually have soem time to myself, rather than being chained to a computer all weekend), makes me think, that as it's not a requirement, then avoid exposing your reasonings and arguments too early on. ie; don't submit a defence response.

 

I do have some objections to some of the things they have written in the defence, and have tightened up some of my arguments, but would it just be a project of vanity to submit a defence response, only to regret having shown my hand too soon.

 

If, I choose not to file a complete response, then does this mean that some of what I wish to say by way of a retort to their defence may not get the airing I would like?

Or do I geta chance to properly raise these issues in my statement/ court bundle later?

In any case, do the judges even take much notice of defence responses anyhow ?

 

Thoughts anyone ?

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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i have been reading through lloyds deence paper once more before i send off my AQ, on point 9 of the defence it states

The claimant's claim is denied in its entirety. it is further denied that the claimant is entitled to the sum claimed or to any sum from the bank

 

Is this what they normally put or do i have reason to be worried on that point. They seem to be pretty certain on it. I am having a bit of a wobble on it

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Yep,

Standard denial. appears on all of them.

 

Don't let it phase you, and file your AQ as normal.

Remember, that there is also no need to file a defence, or do anything contesting such claims made on their defence, as not doing so does not at all mean that you admit or agree with anything they have said in their defence.

 

PM

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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Hi, firstly 'd like to thank all of you for your invaluable advice and comments/expieriences.

My wife and I have 3 claims ongoing against Natwest. If it's ok with you I will talk about my wifes claim.

Up to now things have gone exactly the same as everyone else (including Cobbets). on 5/6/07 she recieved a letter from the court stating that the allocation questionnaires had been dispenced with, and that the court had done this on their own initiative (which we could apply to set aside within 7 days). I have copied the letter under this question to save refering back to it.

My questions are:

1) why have they 'Block listed' the hearing? and what does this mean?

2) As we have alsready paid the court £120.00 for this action, why are they now asking for another £100.00? and what is this for, and can we reclaim this if the case is won/defaulted in our favour?

 

Many thanks again for all your hard work.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Notice of Allocation to the small

Claims Track (Hearing)

To the Claimant’s Solicitor

Court

Seal

 

 

 

(My Wife’s name and address)

( )

( )

DEPUTY DISTRICT JUDGE (judges name) has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires dispensed with and allocated the claim to the small claims track.

The Court has made this order on its own initiative pursuant to Rule 3.3 of the civil procedure Rules 1998. Any party

Affected by this order has the right to apply to set it aside, vary or stay it, by application made not more than 7 days after this order was served on the party making the application.

Parties to file in court and serve on the other party 14 days before the hearing copy documents relied upon and bring the original documents to the hearing.

The parties must file in court and serve on the other party written statements of all witnesses (including themselves) at least 14 days before the hearing and any witness whose statement is not agreed by the other party must attend

The Claimants witness statement must state the exact amount claimed and how calculated unless already set out in the particulars of claim

The Defendant should file and serve a short skeleton argument no less than 14 days before the hearing

The hearing of the claim will take place at 10.30 on the 17 August 2007 at (……..) County Court, (..court address) and should take no longer than 15 minutes

The court must be informed immediately if the case is settled by agreement before the hearing date.

NOTE: The hearing has been block listed. If the claim will be seriously contested at the hearing, it may be adjourned and further directions given.

(Other court notes about attending or not)

 

 

NOTE TO CLAIMANT

Pursuant to the County Court Fees Order Part 2.1, a fee of £100.00 is payable by the claimant upon allocation to track.

This sum must be paid to the Court by 4.00pm on 28 June 2007

Date: 04 June 2007

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Hi All,

 

Just a quick note on our quest to get directions ordered. The District Judge in my area is quite 'directions friendly' and has taken on the directions in a couple of my cases now.

 

This time, he has ordered his own, this time just asking the only defendant to serve his documents - "full details of any facts or matters to be relied upon to show that each and every charge is reasonable and proportionate". Excellent - I think he must be getting fed up with them messing around as much as we are!

 

It has been very good timing, as this is the case most likely to actually get to court as the defendant involved is known for it (no names as they read this forum)

 

I suppose they could still try to set aside though...

 

Iceman1 - to your questions:

 

1. They've probably block-listed your hearings with others to save time and group 'like' cases together - nothing to worry about as far as I know. I'm sure someone will correct me if there's anything to worry about.

 

2. The £100 fee is for the Allocation Questionnaire (if your claim is over £1,500). Although the DJ has dispensed with the AQ itself, the fee is still payable. If your claim is over £1,500 you must still pay it or risk having your case thrown out. And yes you can reclaim it it you win as it comes under court costs.

  • Haha 1

Halifax Card: Claim served 30th Mar - they met 2nd AQ deadline - waiting for Directions/Court Date

Monument Card: Claim served 30th Mar - Directions taken - 14 + 14 day deadline 18th June - settlement signed & waiting for cheque

CitiCards: Claim served 6th April - Defendant's docs (only) to be received by 25th June - case back to Judge 2nd July

A+L (SETTLED IN FULL): Prelim sent 16th April - Claim settled 4th June (on the defence deadline)

Debenhams Store Card (SETTLED IN FULL): Prelim sent 17th Feb - Claim settled on 14th Mar (3 days before LBA deadline)

MINT Card (SETTLED IN FULL): Prelim sent 8th Feb - claim settled 14th Apr (1 day after defence deadline)

HSBC (SETTLED FOR 8% INTEREST): Prelim sent 15th Jan - claim settled 18th May (after AQ deadline)

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got my court date on the 16th this month `june` a bit nervous trying to think have i covered everything still not sure just hope all goes well. Just to say thanks for all those that helped an hopefully after the 16th all is well and my donation is on its way. If you think there might be something that i`ve missed or any extra that you want me to know please feel free.

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I have been given a prelim hearing for late June - does this mean directions have not been ordered, and are pending this date, or that they have not been accepted at all?

 

Peter

Sign my petition to the Prime Minister here:

PETITION

Thanks

Peter

 

!!!WON!!!

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You will have the opportunity to request again that the New Strategy directions are ordered at the hearing, in case you have not seen it before have a look here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html

If I have been helpful please click on my star and add a comment.

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got my court date on the 16th this month `june` a bit nervous trying to think have i covered everything still not sure just hope all goes well. Just to say thanks for all those that helped an hopefully after the 16th all is well and my donation is on its way. If you think there might be something that i`ve missed or any extra that you want me to know please feel free.

 

tez

did you recieve any directions ?

 

Do you need to submitanything befoehand?

 

PM

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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On behalf of my ex I've been doin her claim v Nat West and she has now received a Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing)

 

It states that the parties shall exchange the following not later than 4pm on the 15th June 2007.

 

(a) The written statements of evidence of any witness whose evidence is relied on in support of or in defence of the claim.

 

(b) Copies of any documents which a party proposes to rely on.

 

 

So what do I do now?! I've been through the court bundle section and found the majority I think I need

 

 

The small claims track 'standard directions' -

Typically in small claims track cases, the directions will be these -

 

Each party must file and serve copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing, no later than fourteen days before the hearing.

 

The original documents must be brought to the hearing

 

To comply with these directions, you will need to submit copies of all the evidence and other documents upon which you would rely on in court, to both the other side and the court office, no later than 14 days before the date of the hearing. You must retain the original documents.

 

The documents/evidence you will need to submit will include;

 

- Schedule of charges

- Statements showing charges have been made

- All correspondence between you and the bank

- All cases and statutes upon which your claim relies

- OFT report

 

All this can be found in the Basic Court Bundle

 

Additionally, you should add as much other evidence as you can compile. Examples of other useful pieces of evidence are;

 

- The Competition Commission report - Not including?

- The McNamara interview - Was goin to include

- Australian Default Fee's report - Link doesnt work anymore

- BBC Commission conclusion - Was goin to include

 

 

The court date is on 26th July 2007 so it seems there is a big gap between the two dates mentioned. The witness statement section is worrying me the most

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Bloodster,

 

a) statement of evidence (see page 3 of this thread)

b) basic court bundle.

 

Don't hang about mind, you haven't got long!

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Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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