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    • The property was our family home.  A fixed low rate btl/ development loan was given (last century!). It was derelict. Did it up/ was rented out for a while.  Then moved in/out over the years (mostly around school)  It was a mix of rental and family home. The ad-hoc rents covered the loan amply.  Nowadays  banks don't allow such a mix.  (I have written this before.) Problems started when the lease was extended and needed to re-mortgage to cover the expense.  Wanted another btl.  Got a tenant in situ. Was located elsewhere (work). A broker found a btl lender, they reneged.  Broker didn't find another btl loan.  The tenant was paying enough to cover the proposed annual btl mortgage in 4 months. The broker gave up trying to find another.  I ended up on a bridge and this disastrous path.  (I have raised previous issues about the broker) Not sure what you mean by 'split'.  The property was always leasehold with a separate freeholder  The freeholder eventually sold the fh to another entity by private agreement (the trust) but it's always been separate.  That's quite normal.  One can't merge titles - unless lease runs out/ is forfeited and new one is not created/ granted. The bridge lender had a special condition in loan offer - their own lawyer had to check title first.  Check that lease wasn't onerous and there was nothing that would affect good saleability.  The lawyer (that got sacked for dishonesty) signed off the loan on the basis the lease and title was good and clean.  The same law firm then tried to complain the lease clauses were onerous and the lease too short, even though the loan was to cover a 90y lease extension!! 
    • Northmonk forget what I said about your Notice to Hirer being the best I have seen . Though it  still may be  it is not good enough to comply with PoFA. Before looking at the NTH, we can look at the original Notice to Keeper. That is not compliant. First the period of parking as sated on their PCN is not actually the period of parking but a misstatement  since it is only the arrival and departure times of your vehicle. The parking period  is exactly that -ie the time youwere actually parked in a parking spot.  If you have to drive around to find a place to park the act of driving means that you couldn't have been parked at the same time. Likewise when you left the parking place and drove to the exit that could not be describes as parking either. So the first fail is  failing to specify the parking period. Section9 [2][a] In S9[2][f] the Act states  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Your PCN fails to mention the words in parentheses despite Section 9 [2]starting by saying "The notice must—..." As the Notice to Keeper fails to comply with the Act,  it follows that the Notice to Hirer cannot be pursued as they couldn't get the NTH compliant. Even if the the NTH was adjudged  as not  being affected by the non compliance of the NTK, the Notice to Hirer is itself not compliant with the Act. Once again the PCN fails to get the parking period correct. That alone is enough to have the claim dismissed as the PCN fails to comply with PoFA. Second S14 [5] states " (5)The notice to Hirer must— (a)inform the hirer that by virtue of this paragraph any unpaid parking charges (being parking charges specified in the notice to keeper) may be recovered from the hirer; ON their NTH , NPE claim "The driver of the above vehicle is liable ........" when the driver is not liable at all, only the hirer is liable. The driver and the hirer may be different people, but with a NTH, only the hirer is liable so to demand the driver pay the charge  fails to comply with PoFA and so the NPE claim must fail. I seem to remember that you have confirmed you received a copy of the original PCN sent to  the Hire company plus copies of the contract you have with the Hire company and the agreement that you are responsible for breaches of the Law etc. If not then you can add those fails too.
    • Weaknesses in some banks' security measures for online and mobile banking could leave customers more exposed to scammers, new data from Which? reveals.View the full article
    • I understand what you mean. But consider that part of the problem, and the frustration of those trying to help, is the way that questions are asked without context and without straight facts. A lot of effort was wasted discussing as a consumer issue before it was mentioned that the property was BTL. I don't think we have your history with this property. Were you the freehold owner prior to this split? Did you buy the leasehold of one half? From a family member? How was that funded (earlier loan?). How long ago was it split? Have either of the leasehold halves changed hands since? I'm wondering if the split and the leashold/freehold arrangements were set up in a way that was OK when everyone was everyone was connected. But a way that makes the leasehold virtually unsaleable to an unrelated party.
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CP+ ANPR PCN - double dipping? - Frankley service station M5 southbound supposed 25 hour stay!! ***PCN Cancelled***


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I’ve had a parking charge arrive on the 25 February from CP plus for allegedly parking on Frankley service station M5 southbound from 5/2/23 at 08.40 till 6/2/23 at 13.18 the date of issue is 14/2/23

 

gives me till the 28/2/23 to appeal or pay at reduced rate ( 11 days between issue and arriving in my letterbox) 

 

My issue with the ticket is

I arrived at service station and left immediately on two consecutive days.

 

Arrived on the 5/2 at 08.40 and left within a minute the same on the 6/2 arriving at 13.17 and leaving at 13.18.

 

The parking company are using my arrival from one day and my exit from the following day.

 

How do I appeal this? 
Regards

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Hi Connect,

First DON'T APPEAL!

You could lose useful legal protection...

 

Also, this sounds like a classic case of "double dipping".

 

Could you please fill in the sticky below.

 

 

The usual advice is to ignore any paperwork they send, unless you receive a "Letter of claim".

 

Keep all the letters they send safe. (They can come after you 6 years down the line... No kidding!)

We could do with some help from you.

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1 Date of the infringement 05/02/23 - 06/02/23

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 14/02/23
 

[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s

 

3 Date received 25/02/23
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] 
 

7 Who is the parking company? CP PLUS

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Frankley service station M5 southbound Birmingham 
 

 

 

 

Sorry taken so long. Had to work out scanning and files

Regards 

 

2023-02-14 CP+ PCN.pdf

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Presumably you have proof of being elsewhere during the intervening period they claim you were there?

That should actually sink them but do not appeal.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Looks like they've done the usual trick of printing a date on the NTK, then posting it several days later.

Presumably to shorten the discounted payment time, hoping to panic their victims into paying up as quick as possible.

 

I know there's been problems with mail, but as far as I know it's more or less back to normal...

 

11 days is taking the mick!

We could do with some help from you.

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I haven’t got anything in the way of a receipt to prove I was elsewhere between the dates. I travelled to Derby in the afternoon of the 5/2 to watch a Futsal game with family then returned home. Any ideas on how I can prove where I was? 

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Location data from your phone perhaps?

We could do with some help from you.

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Dids you buy anything?

 

Do you use a tracking app for vehicle insurance purposes?

 

Google history?

 

If nothing else, it sounds like you will probably have a few witnesses to write statements if needed.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to CP+ ANPR PCN - double dipping? - Frankley service station M5 southbound supposed 25 hour stay!!

Thanks dx, Nicky Boy

Checked location services on iPhone - I don’t have any, not switched on. No google searches available. I didn’t purchase anything on my travels and don’t have car tracking insurance. 
I did take a couple of videos at the futsal match so that has time and date information on it, which would be 12.15 ish on 05/02/23 at Derby University sports hall. And then most of the away team members UEA know I was at the game. I could get a few witness statements to say I was there. If it helps? 

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CP+ have failed to comply with the provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

Therefore they cannot pursue the keeper for the charge-only the driver. As you haven't appealed they do not know who was driving  and as anyone with a valid motor vehicle insurance policy can drive your vehicle they have their work cut out.

 

In your case I would appeal because then you will have put them under notice that they had no reasonable cause to contact the DVLA.

 

Please stick to these words.

"I am writing to tell you that I understand from the driver that they visited the car park on two occasions on the 5th and sixth of February at approximately the same times. I am the registered keeper and will not be divulging the name of the driver. But this letter serves to point out that your ANPR cameras are not fit for its purpose and so you had no reasonable cause to obtain my details from the DVLA.

Please confirm that you have cancelled the PCN and removed my details from your records."

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Get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

 

Do not expect them to accept your appeal.  These vile companies never accept appeals.

 

The point is to undermine their case and show them that you are trouble. 

We could do with some help from you.

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I'm thinking that as well as the above it would be a good idea to write to the CEO  of MOTO  https://ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-9094&c=Moto Hospitality-Chief Executive  and explain what happened and ask them to get the ticket cancelled.

 

Sometimes writing to the organ grinder gets excellent results within hours. 

 

Other times the company is completely uncooperative.

 

It all depends on the company policy.  However, surely worth a try.  Nothing ventured ...

 

 

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We could do with some help from you.

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6 hours ago, connect4 said:

I did take a couple of videos at the futsal match so that has time and date information on it, which would be 12.15 ish on 05/02/23 at Derby University sports hall

that'll do. 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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yes that's their double  dipping wheeze sunk

 

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We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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When you write to MOTO, be careful not to disclose that you were the driver as they could well forward your letter to the fleecers. Something like :-


"On  (day date) a party in my vehicle (Reg) visited your premises for a period within the published permitted limit. The following day we were returning home and also visited. Unfortunately CP plus have confused the two visits as one continuous stay. I do have evidence that the party were elsewhere during the intervening period.


I ask that you use your kind offices to have CPplus cancel the PCN and I would suggest that you request that they update their system to avoid other of your valued customers having the stress of being wrongly accused in this manner."

 

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My time as a Police Officer and subsequently time working within the Motor Trade gives me certain insights into the problems that consumers may encounter.

I have no legal qualifications.

If you have found my post helpful, please enhance my reputation by clicking on the Heart. Thank you

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Thanks Gick and FTMDave. I don’t think asking Moto to cancel the ticket would work. A lot of people over the years have used the services to exit the motorway, which is possible. Hence people’s stay are a minute or less. I have since seen works are happening to prevent this in the future. CP plus have got the arrival picture from one day and the exit from the next day. 
Regards

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1 hour ago, connect4 said:

I don’t think asking Moto to cancel the ticket would work.

connect4,

It has worked numerous times in the past.

 

What have you got to lose?

5 minutes writing an email, or

A sheet of paper, an envelope and a stamp...

Edited by Nicky Boy
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We could do with some help from you.

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Beat me to it Nicky Boy.

 

In fact if Connect e-mails they won't even need the stamp.

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We could do with some help from you.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Morning All

I have received a reminder to my parking ticket yesterday dated 3/3 

I did post a letter (proof of posting) with the wording that ‘looking for info posted’ ( 27/2) I would have expected them to have received it before the reminder was sent out. How to approach this one? Should I email next ? I will then have another proof of contacting to refute their claims. They are good at delaying posting as this letter has taken 8 days to arrive. It doesn’t give me enough time to respond before the next stage is started. Have uploaded the latest letter

Regards 

 

0000000000 2.pdf

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Don't rush to email CP+. It gives them a cheap way to hassle you and also makes them think that if they put sufficient pressure on you, you'll cough up.

 

See what the guys think though, sometimes there are reasons for emailing.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Its a reminder, ignore it for now/  You cannot reason with these people.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I see the original charge of £100 has now morphed into £140.  Bad own goal from them.  They are members of the BPA whose CoP states that £100 is the maximum sum allowed - see point 20.5 here  https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/AOS_Code_of_Practice_January_2020_v8(2).pdf

 

Even their threat on the original PCN to increase the amount was after 28 days, yet they've added it after 17 days.

 

Ho!  Ho!  Ho!  PCN completely invalid.

 

As others have said, ignore them now.  You can blast their case out of the water with a snotty letter at Letter of Claim stage, if it ever gets that far.

 

Any joy with MOTO?

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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Thanks FTMDave, sorry it’s taken a while to respond. I’ve just sent the email to Moto. We’ll see if I get a response. Thanks for your links and advice. Also thanks to Gick for the wording. 

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