Should we trust Sunak or the next PM to fix the Country's problems? (title revised 24/10/22)

[honeybee13]

I think you may have missed the point of the article, TOR.

[tobyjugg2]

26 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

Abbot was booted out of Starmers “reformed” party

Yep, booted out for far less than a number of Tory ministers and peers are doing

 

Mind you the Tories who like you attempt to excuse/jog-on from hate speech perhaps thought Hester was being more misogynistic than racist as it was apparently about a couple of women eh with just a side-swipe at Abbott? .. so err err

What about the 'Indians' comment reported? - err well he might have just been referring to 'Indian' women ..

 

So Hester and his supporters/excusers would seem to be racist AND misogynistic

- mind you, even that obnoxious hate relatively small fry (IMO) when compared to attempting to excuse the mass murder of thousands of children.

 

Edited March 13 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Voting Intention: Lab 47%, Con 20% (6-7 Mar 2024)

Yep, they only CON'ing 20%

 

Voting Intention: Con 20%, Lab 47% (6-7 Mar 2024) | YouGov

YOUGOV.CO.UK

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Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention figures

 

 

 

 

[lolerz]

idk how Reform are managing to pull 13% of the country.

Hopefully it's like the Green's where the support is really spread out which will make getting MPs under FPTP difficult for them.

[honeybee13]

I think that's it, lolerz. Some people think they'll push for proportional representation after the GE.

[tobyjugg2]

Perhaps consider that in all its forms, ukip - reform never seemed to translate the poll 'voting intentions' into votes except in the european parliament - undoubtedly fed by the common UK mindset of 'lets rattle the boat and stick one too em'

I did some examination of the polls and election results before, and came to the conclusion that there could be as many as 4 million pretty right leaning voters in the UK, although its probably nearer 2.5 million core. Seemed as few as 250-400,00 were real EDL type, although i dont doubt they don't see themselves as that and those extremist few are very vocal ..

- just consider the 100,000+ pro peace protesters vs the 150 edl thugs throwing bricks.

 

To my shame I voted for Farges ukip in the europeans a couple of times and it was that (unthought-through) mindset with me. Having since actually examined them and their polices and actions and I would NEVER vote for them again - EVER - in any circumstances I can foresee, and regret the votes I gave them.

I think its quite clear that the UK public has since become more than aware that 'nice' names are just another deception in right wing extremist politicking.

Catch me once - shame on you. Catch me twice - shame on me.

 

oh and much of the problem with the green vote is the overlap with libdem vote

 

and lets not forget UKIP using name changes to benefit from the new party high interest syndrome - even though they arent new at all

 

Edited March 13 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

30p Lee joined Reform because George Galloway won in Rochdale. Now they're sitting next to each other at PMQs. 

[tobyjugg2]

Lee Anderson has been kicked out of the Carlton Club following his defection to Reform UK.

well - just his place in Truss' extremist poops-con gruppen to go then eh?

[honeybee13]

Never mind, maybe there's a club for Reform party supporters?

[tobyjugg2]

Lets hope the caterer is Chartwells - the same company linked here with the appalling 'food' packs railed against by Marcus isnt it?

- still presenting crap to kids at high prices

 

‘How difficult is it to bake a potato?’: fed-up head hits out at school’s caterers | School meals | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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Letter apologises to parents over ‘completely unacceptable’ standard of food in Southampton secondary’s canteen

 

"Jason Ashley, the head of Redbridge community school, sent parents photographs of school lunches served by Chartwells, the private catering firm, and said “numerous” meetings with the company had failed to bring about any improvements.

“Frankly, the food that is served in the canteen is completely unacceptable, so much so that if my children’s school served this I would be exceptionally unhappy,” Ashley said in a letter to parents sent on Tuesday.

“I am simply fed up with the lack of progress being made. We have concluded with our photographic evidence that Chartwells do seem to be unable to ‘bake a potato’ correctly. Our evidence shows that in recent times portions have gotten smaller, while prices have risen.”

 

 

Chartwells (again) apologised and (again) blamed “unusual” operational challenges and staff shortages for the difficulties

- and again - takes a newspaper outing them to get an apology

Edited March 13 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

A government spokesperson said: “Matters of international law are rightly a matter for ministers. In the event that the minister decides, in the light of full policy, operational and legal advice, not to comply with a rule 39 indication in an individual case, it is the responsibility of civil servants – operating under the civil service code – to implement that decision.”

Civil servants threaten ministers with legal action over Rwanda bill | Civil service | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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Union says Home Office staff could be in breach of international law if they implement deportations

 

[tobyjugg2]

Nope.

I thought the courts interpreted and decided in a democracy.

Legal 'advice is an offer of an interpretation of the law, even how one might claim its twistable. The courts interpret and decide in a democracy.

 

Parliament might be a large part of the process of law making, but eroding the separation of the executive and the judiciary, let alone overriding it, is eroding the very roots of our democracy

- no surprised there then.

 

and lets not forget that Rwanda itself has stated it will not break international law - and Britain alone does not define that - its why its called international law.

The UK may consider it can define Rwanda safe in the eyes of the UK (International as purely between two nations)  - but Rwanda is clearly considering its other, more important international relations.

Rather stupid claiming that rwanda is safe in the UK when Rwanda abides by wider International rulings

 

- but far more importantly than just a very expensive and abhorrent dog whistle it is an attempt to erode our British citizen rights by using a couple hundred migrants.

 

[honeybee13]

In a way you could say the same thing about the new law for the SPMs. Not a discussion for this particular thread though.

[tobyjugg2]

yes, but that is defined as a special case - yet many tories that support Rwanda have been arguing against that haven't they?

 

Also slightly off topic but has the potential to be a massive international incident:

The 'open arms' aid ship has set off from Cyprus to Gaza at last, its needed to bypass active Israeli obstruction of aide supplies

lets hope it gets a very good military escort given the bombing of civilians and aide points in Gaza and the armed obstruction of aide at checkpoints ..

.. Whether thats from Israeli military and jets bombing civilians .. or (sic) Hamas dressed as Israeli soldiers, and Hamas pilots flying modern aircraft out of and over Israel to drop bombs their own people .. (err)

and whoever does supply an escort - better be ready - remember the USS Liberty eh?

Edited March 14 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Back to the extremism definition.

The new definition, which will be distributed across government and Whitehall, will say: “Extremism is the promotion or advancement of an ideology based on violence, hatred or intolerance, that aims to: 1 negate or destroy the fundamental rights and freedoms of others; or 2 undermine, overturn or replace the UK’s system of liberal parliamentary democracy and democratic rights; or 3 intentionally create a permissive environment for others to achieve the results in (1) or (2).”  [My bolding]

The previous guidelines, published in 2011, said individuals or groups are only defined as extremist if they show “vocal or active opposition to British fundamental values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and the mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs”.

Where does that leave proroguing Parliament [and misleading the late Queen] and alleged irregularities with the Leave campaign?

UK ministers and officials to be banned from contact with groups labelled extremist | Protest | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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New extremism definition to be published by Michael Gove is already being challenged by Muslim groups and experts

 

[tobyjugg2]

Oh dear, when are the poop-cons and the cabinet handing themselves in? Hopefully led by Johnson, Truss, Bravermann, Patel, Anderson and Farage?

- and everyone who votes for the Rwanda policy

 

Edited March 14 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

breaking News

Gove releases names of three organisations he considers extremist, and most importantly will hence be banned from donating to the conservative party:

* The Labor Party

* The SNP

* The UK judiciary

 

[tobyjugg2]

Home Office staff started phoning refused asylum seekers on Tuesday afternoon offering them £3,000 to fly to Rwanda before the new scheme was even announced, i can reveal. Lawyers have described receiving “panicked” calls from clients who had been contacted by the Home Office “out of the blue” and did not understand that the scheme was voluntary.

 

So, thats another £3,000 each on top of the £1.8 million each of existing cost.

Beyond ridiculous what these tory ******** are doing..

 

[tobyjugg2]

So there some questions regarding Abbott and her suspension from the Labour party, so I thought I'd try and clear my perception of her and the Rochdale candidate

1. What she repeatedly said was not something I believe we should accept in politics no matter how much the Tories/right wing do it worse - thats no excuse.

2. She apologised - in a way - but also continues posting the same/similar stuff that got her suspended to this day. Again the Torys/right wing do it constantly - but thats no excuse.

3. The investigation has gone on too long. Either kick her out properly - or let her back in with an explanation why - reasoning needed anyway let alone that she continues spouting the same stuff.

4. The Rochdale candidate is a somewhat different matter as he profoundly apologised for what was said in private and definitively retracted it. But i understand starmer and the party not wanting to Give the Tories a real lever, they make enough hay out of lies.

5. The Tories and even more so the extreme right wing in and out of the Tory party spout far worse on a daily basis - and from ministers and ex PMs - so if they had a shred of decency they should look to their own issues in the area before politicking on others.

6. I agree with Abott that Labour were mistaken and wrong to make it about the money, and that the Torys were wrong to NOT donate the money to charity and refuse further connection with their donor - which would have shot labours points down in flames and given them a moral high ground they really dont deserve - but thats tory scrums (sounds like) for you - Morals/Decency Vs money - no contest.

 

Edited March 15 by tobyjugg2

[theoldrouge]

The gift that keeps on giving 
that is Angela Rayner

She said she had done 'nothing wrong', but dodged questions about which property she had been living in.
 

 

STEPHEN GLOVER: By ignoring the Angela Rayner council house row, is the BBC preparing to go back to being the official wing of the Labour Party? | Daily Mail Online

WWW.DAILYMAIL.CO.UK

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STEPHEN GLOVER: Pretend for a moment that Angela Rayner is deputy prime minister in this Conservative government rather...

[tobyjugg2]

Housing minister admits deliberately helping Tory donor avoid £45m tax bill on development

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

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Housing minister says his actions on the Westferry scheme were consistent with ‘natural justice’

Robert Jenrick admits deliberately helping Tory donor avoid £45m tax bill by rushing through housing development

 

No prosecutions despite abuse of position

 

Call for inquiry into why senior Tory helped donor avoid £40m tax | Robert Jenrick | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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Cabinet Office asked to investigate Robert Jenrick’s unlawful approval of property project

 

Former Tory peer Michelle Mone facing criminal bribery allegation | UK news | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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Mone and husband, Douglas Barrowman, under investigation by NCA over involvement with PPE Medpro

 

Edited March 15 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Nigel Farage

 a man whose UKIP party was ordered by European Parliament leaders in 2016 to pay back more than €172,000 in misused funds.

 

Write that on the side of a bus

Edited March 15 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

UK's Vistry (ex Bovis homes) UK's largest house builder backs a Labour government to boost affordable housing

March 14 (Reuters) - Britain's largest house builder Vistry , opens new tab expects to be able to build more homes under a Labour government, believing the opposition party would put more money into affordable housing to tackle a shortage, its CEO said on Thursday.

 

 

reuters.com

WWW.REUTERS.COM

 

[tobyjugg2]

rumours the minority Tory extreme right have been in talks with 'moderates to depose sunak and crown 'moderate Mordaunt the third leader  in a parliamentary session

.. the right wing ...  - yep

Seems they have become aware of the bl**dy obvious that they are going nowhere but down with sunak - who seems only interested in feeding large contracts to his families infosys in a fujitsu mk2 setup, and that crowning one of the rights own desired leaders would probably result in not only them being out of power for a generation, but the breakup/split of the party

So why Mordaunt?

She is a traditional Tory who hasn't indulged in the nation/voter splitting uncultured wars, and perhps standa a chance of pulling traditional Tory middle ground voters back for the GE ...

... until they get past the GE and they can then  of course just make trouble and depose her and any others until they can crown one of their own that the country would NEVER vote for

Edited March 16 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Someone on Twitter pointed out that Mordaunt could be the first PM in history to lose their seat in a GE.