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    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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tfl summons to court, misuse of freedom pass. confused with letter


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Hi everyone, 

I've gotten a letter from TFL to attend court because I was caught using a freedom oyster card that wasn't mine.

 

I've emailed twice for OOC and I've not received a response.

 

But I wanted to ask about the letter, I've attached it onto here.

 

The reason they gave me to come to court is to identify the issues in the case then fix a trial date.

So will this mean I will have to attend court again after this?

I thought it was just a one time occurrence. stc letter new.pdf

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated, thank you! 

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can you post up everything in/out to date please

there is obviously far more than just those 5 lines that has gone on to date.

 

we cant ever hope to understand without the complete picture please

 

oh and PS please rotate any PDF the rightway up...:pound:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi dx100uk,

 

this is everything, the rest is just 'you are summonsed to attend the court sitting at' then it says the address. And of course the rest is my name and address, which is why the picture is cropped haha. The back page is just about advice and help and that I need to arrive 30min before my court hearing.

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i meant to date not just that letter! we know what that looks like bar that bit they are all the same.

but we've never seen one ask for a CMD

you emails etc. did you dispute it was you?

how many times did you use it

what type of card

which court too please?

 

they are usually single justice court with no CMD's etc.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I was caught at the end of August by an undercover TFL person, 

 

he asked me what card I used and told him honestly that it was my mums.

 

He then brought me to another person who took my details and asked why I used it and I said it was a mistake.

 

They then sent me a letter which I had to respond to within 10 days, and did.

 

They then sent me another letter about court and if I wished to plead guilty and I did plead guilty for it and to attend court. 

 

I did state it was me who used it, and it's a freedom pass. I've used the freedom pass countless times. 

 

And are CMDs bad? The court is at Lavender Hill Magistrates Court.

Edited by dx100uk
Added some blank lines. Please space your post not one mass block of text
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As I said scan the lot up to one mass pdf please after redacting.

 

Dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Everything in/out to date in whatever comms method it was sent/received.

 

trying to understand why they want a cmd to discuss things..not the usual route .

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

So could be a good or a bad move to have a cmd.

 

 Bad, ...they want to catch you out. As youve lied in writing it was only one use due to your medical excuses.

 

You have used the card numerous times and there is a pattern to its use that points to a std work related travel and that the card you should have used, shows no use at all from the above information.

 

Good.. They can see you are in a bad place and want to hear your genu remorse and hardship first hand.

 

DX

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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TfL seem to work in mysterious ways. A number of things seem odd:

 

It is not TfL's responsibility (nor is it within their gift) to summon you to court. The court will do that when they have decided a date for your hearing.

 

A "case management" hearing is only necessary when you have formally entered a "Not Guilty" plea in court. From what you say you have not done that yet (not least because you haven't been asked to do so and if and when you are asked to enter a plea it will presumably be one of "Guilty"). Even then, it is for the court to decide whether one is necessary or not.

 

Have you received any correspondence at all from the court? If not, I would contact TfL and ask them:

  • Whether they have initiated court proceedings yet (as an aside, if they haven't it's too late - their six months runs out today).
  • When you can expect to hear from the court asking you to attend
  • Why they have assumed you will plead Not Guilty
  • Under whose authority they have decided a Case Management hearing will be held

It all seems rather strange - unless there's something I'm missing.

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Hi Man in the Middle, 

Sorry that was my mistake, it was the court that did, not TFL. But i did state that I am guilty and I want to come to court. I've gotten another opinion that they might have mistakenly put my case as a not-guilty one, although I 100% have stated that I'm guilty.

 

I have emailed the single justice system, hopefully they correct this because it seems they're treating this as a case where I pleaded not guilty. I've gotten the date for my court summons, it's in April.

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Unusual for a CMD in this scenario.

Likely thoughts:

a) they don't have you 'bang to rights' and they've seen where you say it was a one-off and you 'used the wrong pass' They have asked you for details of 'the right pass' and you haven't supplied it, and they want to clarify this before offering you an alternative disposal (this would be good news, though not so good if when they ask you about the other pass you meant to use you have to say "I never had another pass, I just mean the tickets I bought / used my contact-less card for").

b) they have you 'bang to rights', multiple uses of the freedom pass seen on CCTV, and it wasn't a 'lucky guess' when they stopped you, but intelligence led (not good)..

 

However for both a) and b) the usual way forward is to offer you an interview under caution, not a CMD. So, unless they offered you an interview under caution and never got a reply .... but usually they'd just proceed with the summons if that was the case.

 

So, my money is on c):

c) You indicated 'not guilty', but then also seem to be pleading guilty. The CMD is so the charge can be put to you, and you'll be asked to plead, to clarify what your plea actually is........

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contact the court should sort it.

 

it might also be worthy to email TLF prosecutions tomorrow...stating you plead guilty to the SJP but they have messed up as i appears they think i stated not guilty and this is causing you untold panic etc issues with your medical condition etc etc , can we please come to some OOC settlement to end my mental torment now. 

 

i offer all costs/fares + any reasonable admin fees in settlement for you not to continue this any further. please show some compassion to me and my family i am in immense torment. i pleaded guilty but now it seems the court has taken that wrongly.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Is it that you gave a guilty plea but indicated you wanted to appear in court?

 

If so, you can’t do that with a Single Justice Procedure.

 

By all means follow dx’s advice as a way to try to get an administrative settlement (OOC), then if not see if it can go to a SJP with you highlighting that you’d previously have wanted to attend court to give your apologies / show your remorse but understand that that isn’t an option with the SJP and that you are offering your apologies and mitigation in writing instead, and hope that the use of SJP helps the court manages its time / resources even if it means you can’t give your apologies in person

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Hi dx, thanks for the advice, really appreciate it! 

 

Hi BazzaS, 

 

Yes I ticked guilty and said I wanted to attend court. I thought I had to go to court to show remorse and have a lesser fine? I thought it would look bad if I said I didn't want to go. I've attached what it looks like here, I just submitted it online though. gp doc 01.03.22 pdf.pdf

and again, thank you for the advice BazzaS! :)

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That used to be the advice, prior to the SJP (where a single justice of the peace / magistrate looks at the case ‘on the papers’ to reduce court attendance where the case is not contested.

 

For SJP you don’t go to court but

a) apologise ‘on the papers’, and also say

b) you’d previously (when there was no SJP) have gone to court to give your apology but still want to apologise but not take up the court’s time, so are not asking to appear out of respect to the court (to save the court’s time / resources).

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About what?

 

Make yourself a pest to tfl. It might work

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I've written this up, please feel free to make any suggestions. Should I email both to the court and TFL? 

 

Dear to whom it may concern, 

 

my case is x. I received a letter in January, asking me whether I wish to plead guilty or not to my case and if I wish to attend court. 

 

I pleaded guilty and stated that I wish to attend court. I believed that attending court was necessary in order to show remorse for my actions and receive a fine that was less. I’ve been summoned to court to attend a Case Management hearing, despite pleading guilty. 

 

I now understand that attending court and pleading guilty is not possible with a single justice procedure. I apologise for this confusion. I do not wish to waste any of the court’s time or resources. 

 

As a result of this confusion it has negatively impacted my mental health and has caused my anxiety to heighten. I would please like to come to an out of court settlement in order to end my anxiety issues. 

 

I offer all costs and fares and any reasonable admin fees in settlement for you not to continue this any further, and to not give me a criminal conviction. This would greatly benefit my mental health and show compassion to me and my family. 

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3 hours ago, BazzaS said:

That used to be the advice, prior to the SJP (where a single justice of the peace / magistrate looks at the case ‘on the papers’ to reduce court attendance where the case is not contested.

 

are these changes very recent bazzaS?

 

as not just the other week or 2 we had 2 here that did attend to show personal remorse and got away with just a fine and no record i believe, another also got OOC on the day too.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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No, that is if you go through the SJP.

 

You CAN choose to go to court.

the upside :

a) you might get an OOC (admin settlement)

b) they might be impressed by the defendant’s remorse

 

the downside:

If you get the bench on a bad day when they’ve had a mass of cases that could have gone to SJP but didn’t, insisting on attending court could go against you 

(Magistrates will sentence within the guidelines but the guidelines suggest a range, and they are only human : if they have got irritated they might lean towards the upper end of the scale!)


I doubt it’ll affect if it is recordable, though.

Edited by BazzaS
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