Aviva fraudulently processed my data without authorisation o

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder response from the FOS

Thank you for your email and I'm sorry to hear that you're unhappy with the way we've handled things. 

 

I will raise a service complaint and a manager will be in touch shortly to confirm the next steps. Please note the service complaint will be a full review of the level of service we've provided and will not address the merits of the final decision

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder update from the police tonight

 

the PC has said that the economic crime unit have concluded that the companies have been defrauded.

Aviva have put a hold on things for now but she will be questioning aviva why they haven't done an in depth investigation and concluded it is fraud and why they haven't exercised the same due diligence as the other companies 

 

She said the aviva case was a financial loss to me so she will get the help from someone in economic crime unit to simplify the forms and then shes in a position to bring him in for an interview and will then update me on what he says 

 

They have noted it against his record on the police records that he has committed identity theft so I guess it will offer me a peace of mind going forwards 

 

That's all the update for now 

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder she phoned me yesterday its not in writing yet the officer will be contacting another company who refused to investigate as they were wanting to know what the police would be doing 

Officer will be speaking to them as well as asking Aviva why they haven't exercised due diligence 

Would it make sense to wait till he's called in for an interview to then write to aviva gives the officer time to discuss her approach with aviva as im thinking to be on the cautious side as now the police are involved aviva are answerable to an extent 

With regards to the the SAR , FOIA I've heard nothing FOS email was received 4th June asking for 3wk extension which will finish tomorrow 

Family members have started putting pressure to drop the fraud case and that he will pay me 6k i said no unless he physically pays aviva himself and gives a statement to aviva it was all him  nothing is getting dropped 

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder yes I have told the officer im facing pressure from the family and I won't be dropping any charges she said I can ask him to pay the money but if he doesnt it will go down the CPS and court route .

I think my brother thought I was calling it bluff as for last 18mths I've felt the pressure and have been hounded with letters so it will be a pleasant surprise when he's arrested and bought in for interview 

But as it stands I'm standing my ground and letting the police deal with it as I know it will take a lot to clear my name 

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder the police have copies of all credit reports all communication with aviva and the FOS decision 

I told the officer how he was getting all correspondence sent to him as he had signed up with his email and this was obvious from another company he had defrauded they sent me a data subject access and on there it stated tehy had sent me annual statements which I never received he asked for a settlement figure they said this would be emailed to customer and couldn't be disclosed to him on the phone , he still got the information  as he was the customer indirectly and it was his email and the officer has site of this data access too 

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder apologies its on my phone so it might seem its very long but on my side I try to keep sentences short 

I'll bear it in mind for future thank you 

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder I have received no response from the FOS, originally they said they would be in contact in 3wks,

the deadline was fri 25/06 no correspondence/update received.

 

This is for both the FOIR and the SAR

[Titchytitch]

On 27/06/2021 at 10:54, Titchytitch said:

@BankFodder I have received no response from the FOS, originally they said they would be in contact in 3wks,

the deadline was fri 25/06 no correspondence/update received.

 

This is for both the FOIR and the SAR

@BankFodder any direction please ?

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder I will send them an email asking them where the information is?

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder response from FOS 

 

Thank you for your email of 26 April 2021 requesting your personal information. I’m very sorry that your subject access request was not processed within the prescribed timeframe.

Unfortunately, your request had come to us at a busy time and because of this, we weren’t able to process what you’d asked for as quickly as we would have liked or within one-month.

Following on from our previous emails, I can confirm we have now processed your request for information in line with article 15 of the UK General Data Protection Regulation about the following complaint reference:xxxxx

 

Information relating to your complaint is stored in your complaint file on our case management system and we hold information six years after we close your complaint. Any calls about your complaint are stored in our call recording server, IPFX. Please be aware that we only retain call recordings for two years.

 

A copy of our privacy notice for consumers, which explains how we process and share your data is available here.

 

The complaint file we’ve shared has been arranged in date order, with the oldest correspondence first and has been uploaded to the secure electronic portal Egress. We have also uploaded the call recordings that relate to your case.

 

We have removed any duplicate information or repetitive emails chains as we processed your request, as well as any information that is not about you. You will notice that parts of the documents have been redacted. We have redacted the names and contact details of third parties at the financial business who you have not had any interaction with as this contains their personal data, but we have left in details about the financial business so you can see what information we have sent and shared with the business.

 

I’ve noted you asked for copies on any internal emails our service may have had about your complaint. However, these have been withheld as they are in relation to progressing your complaint and contain our internal processes.

 

Please note that you can view your information using a free version of Egress – you will not need to pay to access the data we have shared with you.

 

I’ve attached a user guide to explain how you can access the files on Egress.

 

You should receive an email shortly from Egress confirming the files are available for you to view and download. If you don’t receive the email please check your spam or junk folder.

 

Alternatively, you can follow the steps below to access the files:

 

1. Please could you use this link: https://fos.egresscloud.com to access the files.

2. Select ‘new user’ – this option appears towards the bottom of the page.

3. Enter your Egress ID – this is your email address: XXXXXXXXX

4. Enter your first and last name. Please note that you are not required to enter your mobile number.

5. Set up your password – this can be whatever you like. You will also need to set some security questions. Please keep a secure note of your password and security question answers.

6. Now that you have set up your account details, you will need to agree the user terms by clicking the box.

7. Click ‘create account’.

 

Once your account has been created, you will be asked to log in with your username (email) and password. Once you have logged in you will be able to see your secure folders, which contains the information that we have shared with you.

 

The information on Egress is available for 30 days for security reasons. You can click the download button to view and retain a copy of the files on your personal device, so you have continued access to it and can refer back to it as and when needed.

 

Please let us know if you have any problems accessing the files.

 

We hope this answers all of your questions, but if you are unhappy with our response or you have any questions about your subject access request, please get in contact with us so we can look into these for you. We also need to let you know that you have the right to complain to the UK Information Commissioner’s Office. Information on how to do this is available on their website at http://ico.org.uk/complaints.

 

 

 

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder I have looked at the above information that they have sent they have only disclosed the calls between me and the FOS no other information has been shared.

 

There is nothing regarding aviva or any exchange of any information between the FOS and aviva on there 

I now have 14 days to reject the ombudsmans decision.

 

The complaint we made regarding the service I havent heard from the service manager as of yet either 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Titchytitch

[Titchytitch]

On 28/06/2021 at 21:00, Titchytitch said:

@BankFodder I have looked at the above information that they have sent they have only disclosed the calls between me and the FOS no other information has been shared.

 

There is nothing regarding aviva or any exchange of any information between the FOS and aviva on there 

I now have 14 days to reject the ombudsmans decision.

 

The complaint we made regarding the service I havent heard from the service manager as of yet either 

 @BankFodder please advise

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder rejection of FOS decision

Quote

 

Dear Joanna

 

I am writing to formally decline your decision of 13^th April.

 

I am in the process of making a complaint about the service standards applied to the investigation of my complaint against Aviva insurance – reference number MMV312345338.

 

But for now I am declining the decision based on the following reasons:

Reliance on Aviva's "process"
The ombudsman, who declined to uphold my complaint, based that decision mainly on the fact that Aviva had apparently followed their “process” and because they had followed that process, their action in entering into a contract of motor insurance was fair.

1. There is no indication in the ombudsman’s report that the ombudsman had ever had sight of the Aviva process or had even considered whether that process was fair.
2. By Aviva’s own admission, the Aviva call handler who took the original fraudulent telephone call was suspicious or uncomfortable about setting up the policy and decided to ask a manager.
3. It is clear that had the call handler simply relied on her own instinct, that the fraudulent policy would never have been taken out and none of the resulting events would have happened.
4. On 2 June 2021 I received a phone call from Aviva complaints department and during the conversation the complaints call handler pointed out that the call handler in 2015 had made a mistake because she had the authority to decide whether or not to provide the insurance cover and she had no need to go to the manager.
5. In other words, if the call handler in 2015 had adhered to the Aviva “process” the fraudulent policy would never have been provided.
6. My complaint is that either the ombudsman has never seen any document laying out the Aviva “process” and that they have simply accepted Aviva’s word for it.
7. It may be that Aviva has deliberately or inadvertently misled the ombudsman.
8. My complaint is that the ombudsman did not ask to see a copy of the Aviva “process”.
9. If that is the case then the ombudsman’s investigation was not complete and this must surely fall below the FOS service standards.

 

Nowhere in your decision have you explained what the process was and whether in fact the process was fair. Clearly your view is that regards of the process, all that was needed was for Aviva apparently to follow this process and any outcome would be fair.

You may be interested to know that the man who defrauded Aviva also attempted to use my identity to defraud a number of loan companies. I’m pleased to say that all of them exercised sufficient diligence that they did not become victims of the fraud. Only Aviva failed to exercise proper care and allowed themselves to be defrauded.

You may also be interested to know that the police have interviewed me and they will be interviewing my brother and they are preparing to charge my brother in respect of his fraudulent activity. I am under no suspicion whatsoever. The police have informed Aviva to hold any debt collection as it is being formally investigated.

There are many other reasons why I am refusing to accept your decision. All the other reasons turn on the fairness of your decision that the reasons above, go to the heart of your own process and the quality of your investigation.

According to the FOS website, the ombudsman will "… then look at the details of your complaint afresh….". The FOS website also says that "the ombudsman will then ask both parties to make any final representations which he/she will consider…".

So far as I can gather, the ombudsman formed their decision solely on the information which had been gathered by the initial investigator and had not started "afresh" – from zero – as required by the FOS rubric.

In particular, at no point was I approached by the ombudsman for any information. Nothing was discussed with me. I was not involved in any way in the ombudsman's consideration of the events. Furthermore, I was not asked to make any "final representations" before the ombudsman issued their final decision in my case.

Although I understand that apparently the decision is now fixed in stone, by any reasonable standards the only possible finding would be that the ombudsman investigation was flawed and therefore the final decision has been invalidated.
 

Suggested course of action.

 

I understand very well that the ombudsman service will not reverse its decision under any circumstances. However, I have now decided to formally decline the decision.

 

1.      In view of the fact that the ombudsman's own published "process" has not been applied to the handling of my complaint, the decision by the ombudsman should be considered as vitiated. In that case, the decision would be considered to have no validity at all and so there will be no question of the ombudsman being asked to reverse it as there would effectively be no decision to alter.

2.      A second or alternative suitable course of action is that if it is correct that the ombudsman has never seen the “process”, that the case be remitted back to Aviva with a recommendation that they withdraw themselves from the issue.

 

Police fraud investigation

I should point out that the person responsible for the fraud – who is my brother – is facing arrest for a number of similar attempted frauds on loan companies but which exercised greater diligence than Aviva.  He is also currently being investigated for the fraud against Aviva.

The police have already indicated that they will want to speak to Aviva and in fact the police have already been provided with a copy of the ombudsman’s decision because it contains a very comprehensive account of the events which led to the setting up of the fraudulent policy.

 

This letter is intended to decline to accept your decision

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

@BankFodder independent assessors letter

Quote

 

Dear Independent assessor

 

I am writing to escalate my service complaint to the independent assessor which I originally made to Idil Badar on the 17^th June I received an email from him detailing a service manager will be in touch with myself shortly. I have received no further contact from the Financial Ombudsman Service since 18^th June.

I voiced concerns about the level of service I received from the financial ombudsman service I was told a manager would be in touch shortly once I put the service complaint in and they will go through next steps with me. To date I have received no call or email since 18^th June.  I feel the FOS are breaching their rules as they have not been in contact with myself  I am very worried that my complaint is not being handled or even acknowledged which is the reason why I am bringing it to the attention of the independent assessor.

I would like my complaint to be dealt with within the timescales specified . I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

 

 

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder the FOS letter I need to send to Idil badar or do I send it to as many people possible 

The Independent assessor letter do I need to add more to it or is that fine now with your amendments? And I need to send that to everyone again plus the independent assessor?

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder yes I thought both letters were fine now after you've amended im.happy to send to everyone later today 

 

Thank you for your assistance 

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder i have sent the rejection letter to the financial ombudsman  and the letter to the independent assessor 

 

@BankFodder i got a response from the investigator who gave the extension he said the below:

 

Thank you for letting us know that you do not accept the final decision, because you have rejected it the decision will not be legally binding and you can take this further e.g. court action if you wish to do so.

 

I am sorry to hear that no one has been in touch about the service complaint, I can assure you that this was raised for you and I have been in touch with the relevant team to escalate your concerns today. 

[Titchytitch]

response from service manager at FOS following our emails

Quote

 

Thank you for getting in touch on 17 June 2021, following our Final Decision. I’m sorry to see you’re unhappy with the service we’ve provided.

 

I help respond to complaints about our service, and I’m getting in touch following your email today, in which you’re unhappy that we haven’t responded to your service complaint.

 

I’m sorry you weren’t given more detailed information about how the process works. When you raise a service complaint, the responding manager has 15 working days to provide their response. Please be assured that your concerns were passed to a manager at the time you raised your complaint, and it is being looked into.

 

You should expect to receive a response to your concerns by the end of this week. Once you’ve received that you will then have three months in which you can refer your complaint to the Independent Assessor.

 

I hope that’s explained what’s been happening with your service complaint, and again, apologies that you thought we weren’t dealing with this for you.

 

 

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder I've just received this email from the independent assessor I don't know what it means or what it does 

 

Your complaint about the Financial Ombudsman Service: ...

 

Thank you for your correspondence received 6th July 2021. I am a caseworker and I assist the Independent Assessor.

 

I can see that since your email, the Service said it would respond to your concerns by the end of the week. If you remain unhappy once you receive that response please do refer your concerns to our office within the deadline provided by the Service.

 

In the meantime I’ve provided some information regarding the Independent Assessor, Dame Gillian Guy’s role and remit for you to consider when coming back to our office with your concerns.

 

The role of the Independent Assessor

 

The Independent Assessor’s role is to review the practical handling of cases investigated by the Ombudsman Service. Practical handling covers customer- service related concerns such as, delays, staff attitude, lack of correspondence, not advising of the right to an Ombudsman review, etc.

 

It is not the Independent Assessor’s role to review a case against the financial business or to assess how the Service chose to investigate the matter.

 

The investigation of a case, including the information requested, the weight attached to the information and the outcome of the case all fall within the judgement of the staff of the Ombudsman Service, as does who is assigned to a case. The Independent Assessor cannot challenge the Service’s judgment on any of the above as set out in her Terms of Reference.

 

Nor can the Independent Assessor’s comment on or change the Service’s processes including the way it trains its staff, who it employs, its investigatory methods or any procedures or policies it adopts.

 

No further action will be taken at this stage

 

We shall take no further action until we hear back from you with bullet points of your concerns, once the Service has responded to them in the first instance.

Please do so within the three-month deadline provided to you by the Service.

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder it was Katie Anderson whose now left and then the ombudsman was Joanne ward and now the person that took over Katie is Idil badar 

 

The last communication from FOS stated they'll be in touch by this week and then I have 3mths to make a complaint to the independent Assessor 

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder the service managers response 

 

Our ref

.....

 

 

 

 

Sent on behalf of Geoffrey Futer:

 

Dear Mrs Bi

 

Thank you for your patience while I’ve looked into the concerns you’ve raised about how we’ve handled your case. I’m Ombudsman Joanne Ward’s manager – and part of my role is to investigate complaints about our service.

 

Your complaint about our service

 

I’ve read through the documents you sent in detailing your service complaint and summarised as follows:

 

-          You don’t feel that the Ombudsman asked for/actually had documents about the Aviva process, which you felt was crucial to the investigation, making her investigation incomplete

-          You don’t feel that the ombudsman gave you a chance to make any final representations before issuing her decision

-          You feel that the decision was based solely on the previous investigators findings, instead of being investigated from afresh

I note that a lot of the points raised go into the details of the merits of your case and what was relied on. I won’t be addressing these points. As you’re already aware, I can only review the service provided, and so that is what my review has focused on.

 

My findings

 

I’m sorry that you’ve felt you needed to complain, as we always want our customers to have the best possible experience with us. That said, after reviewing everything, I think we have provided a satisfactory service on this occasion – but I appreciate that’s not how you see it.

 

You’ve explained you don’t feel that you were given the chance to make any representations before the decision was issued. But after you received the view, you sent in a detailed response with your position on our findings. Alongside this, we have all of the previous correspondence that you have sent in on file – all of which Joanne was able to see and reviewed prior to making her decision. So, I can’t say that you hadn’t been given the chance, throughout your complaint, to provide all of the information you felt relevant.

 

In addition to this it’s also worth noting that as the deciding Ombudsman, it’s for Joanne to decide what information she needs in order to reach a fair outcome. And an Ombudsman wouldn’t usually speak to as customer unless they felt it necessary to do so to reach their outcome. I can see that Katie contacted you in November and February on behalf of Joanne as she needed some more information before issuing her view. So, you were given the chance to provide all of the information you were asked for, or wanted to submit. And Joanne felt that receiving this information was all she needed to reach her outcome.

 

This leads nicely onto your point about Joanne not making an investigation from afresh.

 

It is our process that when an ombudsman takes on a case for decision, that they review the whole case file and reach their own conclusions. I’m satisfied Joanne has done so in this case. And I believe her asking for more information also evidences this, as the Investigator previously hadn’t asked for this.

 

There are times when an Ombudsman may disagree with the previous view, and in doing so they will communicate a change in outcome through a provisional decision, before issuing the final decision. But I can see in this case, Joanne came to the same outcome – based on her own investigation – so this was not necessary.

 

You’ve said you don’t feel that we’ve seen crucial information about Aviva’s process. You also commented that you felt this was important as it’s the main reason for not upholding your case.

 

I’ve spoken to Joanne to discuss what she considered, and she’s assured me she did have the information available, and this was one of the things she relied on. I’ve also seen that we have this on file. Their processes are commercially sensitive, so we won’t be sharing this with you, but I can assure you that Joanne has reviewed it. Having read Joanne’s Decision, I think she makes it clear that this isn’t the only factor in reaching her outcome, and that is adequately explained in the decision.

 

So, I can’t agree that we didn’t have key evidence or that the investigation was incomplete.

 

I appreciate that you don’t agree with the decision. The nature of what we do means that often one party is disappointed, but that doesn’t mean we’ve not investigated properly or relied on the right evidence. I’m satisfied that we’ve handled your case as I’d expect and there is nothing to suggest that we haven’t applied our case handling processes.

 

The Independent Assessor

 

I hope that my response has gone some way to assure you that I’ve taken your concerns seriously.

 

But if you’re still unhappy with the service we’ve given you, you can contact the independent assessor, Dame Gillian Guy. You have three months from today to get in touch with her. You’ll need to contact her directly, as we can’t refer a complaint for you.
 

You can find the independent assessor's terms of reference here. She can investigate the level of service we’ve provided. But she can’t comment on – or change – the outcome of the complaint about Aviva Insurance Limited.

You can email Dame Gillian at independent.assessor@financial-ombudsman.org.uk or write to The Independent Assessor, PO Box 35738, London, E14 9YU

[Titchytitch]

@BankFoddershe had email communication towards the end but nothing further I dont know what else to do? this is really not how it should be there's no consumer protection  

[Titchytitch]

@Manxman in exile the above is correct that you've written your assumptions are correct none of this makes sense at all 

[Titchytitch]

On 08/07/2021 at 14:36, Manxman in exile said:

 

That all seems contradictory to me.  I don't see how the way an investigator or ombudsman investigates a case can be distinguished from the "practical handling" of a case - the latter obviously includes the former.  (A person could complain to the FOS and the FOS could decide that its investigation would not include gathering any evidence from the complainant, and then find that the company being complained about had done nothing wrong.  That would clearly not be right, but according to the above the Independent Assessor would be unable to question it!)

 

In this case I'd have thought the practical handling to complain about is the apparent reliance of the FOS on Aviva's assertion that they have correctly followed their procedures - without any indication that the FOS have actually seen that procedure and measured Aviva's conduct against it.  On the face of it, the FOS decision appears to mean that anybody at all (X) can ring up Aviva and take out an insurance policy on behalf of somebody else (Y) without Aviva carrying out any checks at all that X has Y's authority to proceed.  And that Aviva can then hold Y liable to pay the premiums!  I personally find it very difficult to believe that Aviva has a policy that says that that is OK, and I find it even harder to believe that the FOS condones that.  I find it difficult to avoid the conclusion that there is some miscommunication here, 'cos none of it makes sense.  I do not understand how the FOS could have reached their decision - it appears perverse.

 

I seem to recall the OP might have other grounds to complain about the practical handling?  Am I right in thinking the FOS contact with the OP in respect of the investigation only consisted of some 'phone calls and no written statement or submission etc that they could keep a copy of?  Clearly unsatisfactory in my view.  (Apologies if I'm mistaken on that point but that's what I seem to remember).

 

 

@BankFodder any thoughts please on what we need to do now ?

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder would you think it would be best to respond to the independent assessor and wait to see the outcome of the police investigation 

As the police officer was clarifying on some points so they are still arresting him and questioning him 

Aviva have stopped sending correspondence for now due to the officer getting in touch with them 

The FOS Katie has sent a few emails but she never said do you have anything further to add before we make a final decision if that makes sense they we're emails just asking for information 

 

I also think with everything going against me even if I did go down the taking aviva to court route they would go the whole way to get the money out of me and so far aviva and the FOS have really knocked my confidence I just feel like im banging my head against a brick wall and there's absolute no logic behind how this policy was originally set up 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Titchytitch

[Titchytitch]

@BankFodder and @unclebulgaria67 I need some help with drafting the letter please to the independent assessor I'm just literally blank with the stress its causing me

 

I'd appreciate any help x