Avon Car Sales - Dubious tactics not to refund for fault in car - court claim issued

[BankFodder]

Thank you. That is also very helpful. I'm still waiting to see the extract of their deadline threat.

[BankFodder]

Have a look at this letter.  If there are other losses which you have incurred then please include those in the letter as well. And post it back here.

I'm suggesting that you sent this as a fairly detailed resume of the situation but which is not to conflict-oriented at this point.

I expect them not to respond – or if they do respond then to respond with denials and maybe a partial offer.

The important thing is to have some kind of paper trail and also to make them aware of the defects and your losses.

If you haven't received a response by next Friday then I think it is the time to send them a letter of claim giving them 14 days – as long as you're prepared to follow through on day 15

 

Quote

Dear XXX

As you know, I purchased a XXX model car from you on XXX date. Within a few weeks it started to show a coolant warning light on the dashboard. It turned out that this was because it was leaking coolant. The coolant leak didn't appear to be a major leak at the time.

I took the car for an independent examination where the coolant leak was confirmed and also other defects including a leaking head gasket and [XXX please list other defects] were discovered.

I contacted you and you agree to receive the car back that you are only prepared to deal with the original fault – the coolant leak – and not the other defects which had been subsequently discovered. Furthermore, you insisted that I should be responsible for arranging the return of the vehicle to you as well as being responsible for the cost of the return.

As you gave me no other option, I did return the car to you at my expense. He then claimed that the car was badly damaged because it had been driven without coolant. I have no idea why this should be because I had not driven it without coolant and in fact the cooling system had been topped up with water before it was taken away on a transporter.

Since then, you have offered to reimburse me the price of the car – but less the cost of repairing some damage which is apparently caused by the lack of coolant in the system – and also without reimbursing me for the cost of transporting the car to you.

You are still in possession of the car and you have been for [XXX number of weeks it has been in their possession] and you are now demanding storage fees while the vehicle is in your possession.

I think it is time to bring an end to this dispute.

Clearly the car was defective when you sold to me. There was a coolant leak, there were the other defects which were subsequently discovered and which must have been present at the time that the car was sold to me. In any event, I was entitled to purchase a car which was in satisfactory condition and which would stay that way for a reasonable period of time.

Clearly that is not the case with this vehicle.

Your dealership seems well-regarded on the Internet and I would encourage you to take steps to reimburse me for this unfortunate situation and this would be in keeping with the reputation which you have on Google et cetera.

I'd be grateful if you could arrange let me have reimbursement of full of all my losses incurred so far – which is the cost of the vehicle, plus the cost of transportation plus the cost of the independent report which was repaired and which identified the other faults of which we had previously been unaware.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours

 

[Sc0ut]

Besides the deadlines in the dealer summary.  This is the last one from the Lawyer that makes the ultimate demands.  Interesting how they acknowledge that there is an offer on the table yet make an explicit demand.

email Legal4U 2021-Mar-08 GDPR.pdf

[BankFodder]

Okay it suddenly opened.

Ignore it. Ignore the ultimate demands – et cetera.

Send the letter I suggested if you are happy with it – if not, then make your corrections and then post it up here for us to see.

I think it's gone on long enough so we might as well start putting the wheels in motion – if you are happy

[BankFodder]

Thank you. Very clear.

You haven't listed out your losses – and you should do. You are asking for reimbursement and you need to say exactly what you are expecting.

Secondly, you adjust it to the lawyers. You shouldn't do this. Address it to the dealer. We don't care what the lawyers say and they are irrelevant.

Also, omit the reference to "after a few long trips". Refer simply to "after a few weeks".

[Sc0ut]

Right .. all ready to go to the director's email ....  This is the last paragraph :

 

 

Pleas arrange to let me have reimbursement of full of all my losses incurred so far which are:

1.     The cost of the vehicle                           £3,495.00

2.     Transportation                                          £   190.00

3.     Independent investigation                      £     89.00 

4.     Insurance cover from return                  £   174.08
 

This doesn’t include the undue stress and great inconvenience to the family that has been caused by this and being without transport for considerable time.

I look forward to hearing from you by 12:00 pm Friday 19^th March 2021.

Yours sincerely

 

 

Do I cc the lawyer?

[BankFodder]

I think it's time to stop expressing gratitude. No, ignore the lawyer. We don't care about them.

I'm afraid you can't claim for stress and inconvenience. It simply not recoverable and so it's not worth mentioning it because it is a loser. You only want to put yourself in a position where you are claiming winners.

Don't give a deadline. However, next Friday, you can simply send a letter of claim saying that as you haven't heard from them in respect of your letter dated XXX, you are now proposing to see them et cetera. We'll work it out

[BankFodder]

I suddenly realised that the brake defects and also the CV boot defects – which I expect are related to the steering effectively mean that the car was in an unroadworthy condition.

Selling an unroadworthy vehicle is an offence under The Road Traffic Accident 1988.  https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/75/enacted?view=plain

If you obtain a judgement on the basis of those defects which you have listed out, then you will be in a position to send a copy of that judgement to Trading Standards who have the power – maybe a duty – to prosecute.

I think we may as well leverage this and when you prepare your letter of claim, we will refer to this

[Sc0ut]

they will say that it passed an Mot but both skoda and highlighted the cv boots as an mot failure.   skoda highlighted  the brakes as Amber which is an advisory.  the mot had no advisories.  the other mechanic just tried to diagnose the leak from the engine but double checked skoda's assessment of the cv boots and agreed. 

 

This part of the case seems  to be against the mot company, so not directly related to the dealer but the car transporter did say, as he had to wait a long time, that he was chatting to the mechanic and they did say that it was owned by the same company.  not sure if its the same entity that provided the estimate as I couldn't find a direct link on companies House.

 

Another point i need to understand the implications of....   the visa debit card judgement was in their favour and released the funds to the dealer.  Halifax called me when I raised a complaint and they explained that its up to visa and their findings but it was simply that me inspecting the vehicle and it having a clean mot satisfied their tests also that their was a live offer on the table which I wasnt aware of.  hence my email of an offer of accepting a 500 deduction without liability which was rejected outright based on the visa findings.   

 

How will this be interpreted in court?  

I think its to simplistic as they accepted the fault within the first month and they declined the offer.

 

Ps..  claim amount. - insurance. 

the figure i claimed is from the day of return to the day of the post but I remember the insurance company advised me to cancel it as I would be liable for any damage that occurs in their care and I did tell the dealer that I transferred the the v5c and cancelled the insurance which upset them and they told me that I'm still liable. 

 

Guess I should adjust it incase they pint it out to the court to use it against me.

Sorry.  no need to reply today.  just on my mind.  back to mothers day

Enjoy.

[BankFodder]

I'm not sure if the point you are making is in relation to my suggestion that we leverage the unroadworthy condition – or as a general point about the legal arguments that you will make in respect of the satisfactory or otherwise condition of the car when you bought it.

Also, are you saying that the MOT company and Avon Car Sales are the same people?

Also I'm not quite sure what you mean in respect of adjusting your claim for insurance money.

[Sc0ut]

I'm not sure if the point you are making is in relation to my suggestion that we leverage the unroadworthy condition – or as a general point about the legal arguments that you will make in respect of the satisfactory or otherwise condition of the car when you bought it.   Leveraging is good, I was just trying to understand what the court will think as the car came with a clean MOT with no advisories  although SKODA & Best Autos found otherwise.

Also, are you saying that the MOT company and Avon Car Sales are the same people?  That was reported by the car transporter but no evidence and given verbally.  

Also I'm not quite sure what you mean in respect of adjusting your claim for insurance money.   I had forgotten that I cancelled it a few days after I returned the vehicle under their advise. 

 

 

Another point i need to understand the implications of :   the visa debit card judgement was in their favour and released the funds to the dealer.  (see above explanation).

[BankFodder]

If you are talking about reducing the insurance figure – then leave it alone. Let them raise the point if they want.

It would certainly be handy to find some kind of relationship between the dealer and the MOT garage. What is the name of the MOT garage? Of course this would not be to say that there was anything dodgy about the MOT is – but it would be interesting to know. Was it a new MOT?

 

I think the court will certainly be interested in forming conclusions about the clean MOT and yet the findings by Skoda. I think this is very significant.

In terms of the decision by Visa, don't worry about it. That's the kind of thing we expect from these companies. They were an easy life and they don't expect that they will be challenged

[Sc0ut]

Hi.   Hope you got some down time over the weekend.

 

What do I need to do to the letter to use it as a letter of claim??

 

Regards

[BankFodder]

Would you mind posting up the letter which you eventually sent and will use that as a basis.

[Sc0ut]

Sure .... 

Draft letter to Avon 2021-Mar-12.docx

[BankFodder]

Quote

Quote

 

Dear Avon Car Sales Ltd.

 

Letter of Claim

 

[You have failed to respond to my letter of XXX date] [you have refused to reimburse me as requested in my letter of XXX date].

 

The details of my complaint and the reimbursement I seek are all contained in that letter.

Furthermore, your insistence that I be responsible for the cost of transporting the vehicle to you in order to carry out any sort of repair and for which you were legally responsible is, in my view, an example of unfair trading in addition to a breach of contract.

 

I also notice that under the Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 75 it is an offence to sell a vehicle that displays some of the defects which were present in the vehicle which you sold me. 
If you do not reimburse me in full within 14 days then I shall see you in the County Court and without any further notice for my losses plus interest and furthermore, I shall refer the judgement which I am confident of obtaining against you to Trading Standards who are then required by law to be an investigation.

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

[Sc0ut]

Thanks.  Will get it ready.  

[BankFodder]

Yes.

You need to start making sure that you are a bit familiar with the supply of goods provisions in the Consumer Protection Act, the principles of unfair trading in the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 as well as S.75 Road Traffic Act 1988

[Sc0ut]

Seems like nice light night time reading ...

 

The last letter was emailed to them.   I plan to send email the letter on friday which is their deadline to collect the car.  Do I post as well?

 

Regards

[BankFodder]

Finally, just a little caveat – this is your case to win or lose. I think your chances of success are much better than 95% but from the way they are acting at the moment it looks to me as if they may put up quite a struggle – unless they suddenly think that the damage to the reputation should you get a full judgement including references to unfair trading and the Road traffic Act, is much too high a risk to take.

One thing in your favour is that they are a fair distance away from you and so if there is actually a face-to-face hearing then they will be obliged to travel to you. Assuming that it goes that far, if you receive a directions questionnaire which will then consider questions such as what track to allocate the case to (claims) and where the case should be transferred to (your local court), I think you could reasonably ask the court to list it for a face-to-face hearing because apart from anything else you are likely to need to produce a witness – meaning the mechanic who inspected your vehicle and was kind enough to waive his fee.
The benefit of getting a face-to-face hearing is that Avon Car Sales will be obliged to travel all the way down to your local court and that will put them to considerable trouble and inconvenience and although if you by some chance happen to lose, you may be responsible for their reasonable cost of travel – the inconvenience to them will far outweigh other considerations. This will put additional pressure on them to start being sensible.
Of course asking for a face-to-face hearing doesn't necessarily mean that you will get it. It might still happen online

I think you should certainly post the letter of claim. Send a copy ordinary first class post and another one in a different envelope recorded delivery. You can send them confirmation by email a couple of days later – but referring to the date in the postal copy

[Sc0ut]

I Can't afford to lose so that's reassuring.  

Thanks 

[Sc0ut]

Is this OK?    I got confused with the you, you,you....

 

Dear Avon Car Sales Ltd.

 

Letter of Claim

 

You have failed to respond to my emailed letter of 12^th March 2021 and you have refused to refund me in full as offered and as requested in my WhatsApp Chat on 3^rd November 2020 and subsequent emailed letter of 12^th March 2021.

 

The details of my complaint and the reimbursement I seek are all contained in that letter.

Furthermore, your insistence that I be responsible for the cost of transporting the vehicle to you in order to carry out any sort of repair and for which you were legally responsible is, in my view, an example of unfair trading in addition to a breach of contract.

 

I also notice that under the Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 75 it is an offence to sell a vehicle that displays some of the defects which were present in the vehicle which you sold me and suddenly refused to repair and then refused to refund me and charge me for the full repair all within your 3 month warranty period.  Now you demand that I collect the damaged vehicle which can not be driven safetly and charge me storage fees.

If you do not reimburse me in full within 14 days then I shall see you in the County Court and without any further notice for my losses plus interest and furthermore, I shall refer the judgement which I am confident of obtaining against you to Trading Standards who are then required by law to begin  an investigation.

Yours faithfully

[BankFodder]

Yes, the you you you et cetera was a computer glitch.

I don't know why you are referring to your chat on 3 November last year. We are now simply dealing with the letter which you have just sent on 12 March – which lists everything doesn't it?

Also, you are assuming that they are failing to respond to that letter. However my draft laid out two possibilities – one in the event that they don't respond and second, in the event that they respond but they refused to reimburse you.
You will have to wait and see what happens by Friday

[Sc0ut]

Sure.... I also allowed for the 2 options that's why I left it in.

Will remove the Whats app. I was just highlighting that the time scale when I accepted their offer of full refund which they withdrew.

 

[Sc0ut]

Hi, They have replied...

 

 

We confirm receipt of your email of the 12 March 2021 and respond as follows.

 

Quote

 

As per our previous correspondence, we would reiterate our Client has no liability in respect of your claims. Your allegations of wrongdoings have been comprehensively replied to through our prior correspondence.

 

In respect to the length of time it has taken for any constructive agreements to be proposed, that is solely down to you by attempting to issue a chargeback on your debit card without any prior notice. All required evidence has been provided to the card issuer and they have evidently chosen not to uphold your s75 chargeback request.

 

The charges you purport to have incurred are absurd, and what is more so absurd is that you feel as though our Client must reimburse you for these costs.

 

To reiterate our position, you have damaged the vehicle since purchasing it from our Client and it would be entirely unreasonable to expect our Client to refund you the purchase price of the vehicle, with the additional costs you have mentioned.

 

You make reference to our Client’s pristine online reputation, and we would assert that our Client will not be blackmailed into complying with your unreasonable demands, and any defamatory statements made to slander our Client’s reputation will be fully pursued to the extent that the law allows. 

 

Our Client has spent a significant amount of time and money in overturning the chargeback you unlawfully requested and would again request that you collect your vehicle as it continues to inconvenience our Client, and we put you to strict notice that you will incur storage charges of £10 per day if the vehicle is not collected within 7 days of this email’s receipt.

Yours Sincerely

 

 

How should we tweet the letter of Claim?