ex Company Wages Over payment Claimform

[hovercraft]

Hello,

 

Thanks for any help.

I worked for a company until Apr 2015, and now have just received a claim form, from a "County court business centre" stating that I owe the company money. Apparently they overpaid me some salary, not that I can remember, so long ago.

 

This is the 1st corresondence regarding this.

How should I reply to this please?

They reckon it was £700, but with interest and now with costs it's near £1200.

 

If I own money, I owe money, not a problem, but somewhat baffled as to why after over 5yrs I suddenly get this claim form, and was not informed at the time.

 

Any advice/help with my defence would be very helpful.

 

Thanks.

[dx100uk]

please carefully complete this:

 

You have received a Court Claim ISSUED IN ENGLAND & WALES What you need to do - Financial Legal Issues - Consumer Action Group

 

dx

[hovercraft]

Many thanks, I'll go through it.

[hovercraft]

Name of the Claimant ? Centrica PLC

 

Date of issue – 02/12/2020

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – 

 

1.The claimant's claim is in respect of an overpayment of salary/expenses full particulars of which have been previously supplied.

 

And the claimant claims 717.10p Account no:..., 325.19p interest thereon in accordance with section 69a of the County Court Acts 1984 at a rate of 8% p.a calculated from the date upon which payment became due to the date hereof as set out below. Further interest at the rate of 0.16p per day (8% p.a.) to judgement or payment.

 

What is the total value of the claim? £1192.29
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred?

No
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address?

N/A

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account?

No
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ?

N/A
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ?

N/A
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ?

Not known.
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.

Original creditor
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

N/A
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?

No, this is the 1st letter.
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ?

No
 

Why did you cease payments?

N/A
 

What was the date of your last payment?

N/A
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

No
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan?

N/A

 

Any more information needed just ask, and thanks again for any help.

[dx100uk]

when did you stop working for british gas?

is this a clawback of training course fees that became due because you left the company within xx years of getting the training?

 

dx

[hovercraft]

April 2015.

No, I worked for them for 4yrs +.

[dx100uk]

so no additional particulars of claim received as they indicate?

 

dx

 

 

[BankFodder]

Also, please read up what we have to say about estoppel.

On the basis of what I understand so far, your defence would be an estoppel – but we need to know far more about the pattern of payment. Was this an overpayment which was trickled through over a period of months or years? Or was it a lump sum?

Also it's quite extraordinary that they haven't supplied you with any other correspondence. You need to be absolutely certain of this – it's essential because they haven't then they haven't satisfied the pre-action protocol.

I suggest that you send them on SAR immediately. Do it today.

[BankFodder]

I understand that you may not even know how these overpayments were made. Although I have suggested that you send them on SAR – which you must do immediately., Also, phone them up and speak to the accounts department and tell them that you are extremely concerned because you have received a claim relating to overpayments and can they please let you have as soon as possible details of the overpayments, how they were made, and over what period they were made.

If the accounts department are cooperative then you may well be able to have this information within the next couple of days.

If they refuse to send it to you, then you must write them a letter immediately and refer to your request on the telephone dated XXX asking for details of the overpayment – and when you spoke to XXX person – and you are extremely disappointed that they have refused to provide you with this information.

It's very important to have a paper trail and if they have even refused to give you the information then this will help you enormously when you file your defence.

[hovercraft]

Many thanks for the replies.

[BankFodder]

Thanks for the many thanks – but are you going to take up the advice that we have given and phone the accounts department and also sent the SARs today?

[hovercraft]

Hi dx

OK, sorry for the late reply, been on/off talking to my bank. Yes it looks like i did recieve 717.10p, we use to get quarterly bonuses, maybe I thought that's what it was at the time. Now what action is best?

 

Hi bankfodder,

Yes. And as above re dx; sorry for the late reply, been on/off talking to my bank. Yes it looks like i did recieve 717.10p, we use to get quarterly bonuses, maybe I thought that's what it was at the time. Now what action is best?

[BankFodder]

Did you receive this money at one go or over a period of time?

As a percentage of your quarterly bonus, how much might this have been? Would it have been a stunningly large amount or would it have simply been a fraction of the bonus.

Did the bonus vary or was it a fixed sum every quarter?

[hovercraft]

One go.

Quarterly bonuses can vary from a few 100 to £1k, depending on hitting certain targets which were always changing.

 

[BankFodder]

If you had realised that it had been an accidental overpayment, – hand on heart, what would you have done? Would you have raised the issue with your employer or would you have decided that as it had come into your account, you would simply use the money?

[hovercraft]

if they had mentioned it, or it was my fixed salary amount, I would of raised it. But being an ad-hoc amount I didn't think anything of it.

 

[BankFodder]

Okay. I don't know if you looked up estoppel. You should do

Strictly speaking, the money was paid under a mistake and they are entitled to recover it from you. This means you would be obliged to pay it back.

However, if you have received a sum of money from somebody authorised to give it to you – particularly somebody in authority. If you have received that money in all good faith without understanding that the money was not due to you and that you honestly believed that the payment was intended. If you have spent that money on ordinary day-to-day things – in other words not treating it as a windfall, and if it would now cause you difficulty to repay it, then you could plead an estoppel.

Estoppel is basically saying that you received the money, you had no idea that it wasn't due to you and you accepted it in good faith. It wasn't an exceptional windfall and now that it has been spent in good faith, it would cause you difficulty to repay it.
On that basis, the claimant would be estopped (not allowed) to recover it from you. The claimant would be estopped from saying that the money should not have been paid. Effectively they have made a promise to you that the money was yours and you have relied on the promise in good faith.

Does this make sense?
 

[BankFodder]

The final thing we need to know is whether they have followed the pre-action protocol and given you advance warning of the action. At least a letter of claim – and preferably some correspondence before that.

I suggest that in addition to the SAR which I hope you have sent off by now, that you phone them and speak to their office and tell them that you haven't had any earlier correspondence on this and would they please be kind enough to email it to you. If they are grown-ups they will do this

[hovercraft]

Thanks for your help.

Yes I looked up estoppel, trying to get my head around it.

Yes i did spend it on day to day things as I went self-employed.

Yes it makes sense.

Thanks.

 

This is my 1st correspondence.

And I was looking at the form wrong, it looks like CST Law are dealing it. There's a phone no, shall I ring them instead? I have no problem with the 700 but 300 interest is a bit cheeky as they haven't sent anything before.

[BankFodder]

Okay. Well see what you can find out about the any previous correspondence on this matter. It will be helpful if they were prepared to have a dialogue with you and to provide you with correspondence which they say that they have sent. If they do provide you with copies of it then it will be interesting to hear why you say you haven't received anything.

It will be helpful to say that they haven't complied with the pre-action protocol – but on the other hand, if they can come up  with copies of documents which they say they sent you including a letter of claim, then I'm afraid that they will tend to be believed and you won't.

If act if they can come up with copies of documents which they say they sent to you then I probably wouldn't want to refer to the pre-action protocol in your defence because if they are able to prove that they did send the documents, that puts you in a position where you are not believed on that. If you are believed on that, then it may make a judge a bit more wary about believing you on the estoppel. It's very rare that people run an estoppel and the courts are very cautious about upholding an estoppel defence.

This means that you should try and contact the Department as quickly as possible. Obviously, send the SAR straightaway – but it would be helpful to know whether there has been communication with you before you have to file the defence.

 

[hovercraft]

OK I'll phone the law company , many thanks again. And I'll get back ASAP.

[BankFodder]

Yes, telephone CST law and see if they will give you the advance correspondence. If they refuse then you should write to them and confirm that they have refused to provide you with evidence of the pre-action protocol.

You may be right about reimbursing them £700 – but this is not the time to do this. And I agree with you that the £300 interest is a bit much to stomach.

Also, I wonder what they think gives them the authority to claim £300 interest. What is that rate of interest?
Even if you should repay the £700, it is their error and they should not be permitted to profit from their error.

Thank CST law – don't make any admissions. Don't get into conflict. Just say that you have received any previous correspondence on this and you would like all that correspondence. Send British Gas on SAR and send on SAR also to CST law. Don't tell CST law that you are sending them on SAR because it will sound conflict oriented and you are better not putting them on their guard or on the defensive in any way.

In terms of the claim form that you have received, you should acknowledge it with an intention to defend. You can always retract this later on if you want.

Payment of the £700 – but without the interest could be a negotiating hand that you keep if and when it goes to mediation.

[dx100uk]

cst?

can we confirm that centrica ARE the claimant named on the form

CST typically act for debt buyers..

 

dx

 

[hovercraft]

Many thanks again.

 

Yes the claimant is Centrica and CST are seemingly the correspondence address.

 

Just spoke to CST and they reckon they sent 5 letters, one may of not got here, but 5? Not sure I believe that.

 

She's going to send any docs via email. And has put the case on hold.

[BankFodder]

Okay. Let's know when you see this letters.

It concerns me that you say one of them may have gotten through – because we now find that you are basically accepting that they did communicate with you on at least one occasion. So what's the story on that one?