CP Plus ANPR PCN Claimform - Overstay - Lee Valley Ice Centre

[AnotherMessIGotMyselfInto]

Hello,

Can someone advise if the attached is a valid charge please? 

I had parked in the car park and paid but then got delayed and have ended up with a ticket for parking longer than I should have done.  

I know they will refuse the appeal but is this charge enforceable?

 

Charge Notice.pdf

[honeybee13]

It's highly doubtful or impossible that it's valid.

 

Please give us the details requested in the forum sticky so we can advise.

 

HB

 

[AnotherMessIGotMyselfInto]

Hello HB, 

Sorry, for not posting correctly the first time. 

I hope I have done it correctly this time.

SG

 

1 The date of infringement?

28 July 2020
 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?]

No
 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

Only the charge notice
 

what date is on it

5 August 2020
 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?

Yes
 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?]

I am not sure
 

5 Who is the parking company?

CP Plus
 

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park?

Lee Valley Ice Centre

Charge Notice 5 Aug.pdf

[honeybee13]

Thank you for the information. Please don't appeal, it hardly ever makes things better.

 

I expect the regulars will have questions for you but I have a couple. Can you give us the postcode of the Ice Centre please and also, do you know how long you're allowed to park for?

 

And one other, is the car park just for the Ice Centre or are there other premises that use it?

 

HB

[dx100uk]

Lee Valley Regional Park Authority

 

i will bet that LVRPA have byelaws that over ride any private parking invoices

2. the minimum parking time is not under 2 or 3hrs and no silly PPC can change that.

totally ignore everyone until/unless you get a letter of claim

 

dx

 

[lookinforinfo]

You were right not to appeal.

There is very little chance of having your PCN cancelled even when your appeal points out the unenforceability of their speculative invoice. What also happens on appeal is that you may reveal that you were the driver which allows them to lawfully pursue you as the driver and thus you losing the cover of the Protection of Freedoms act 2012 as well as obviating the need for them to send you the Notice to Keeper.

 

This has to be sent within a certain period of time and contain certain phrases to allow them to pursue the keeper if they do not know whothe driver was. If the Notice to Keeper  fails the POFA 2012 acid test, and they often do, then they can only pursue the driver for the payment.

 

There are many other factors which prevent parking companies being able to lawfully win in Court against motorists and if you could fill out the form above  from Honeybee13 it will help to swat  CP minus away.

 

The accepted practice is not to appeal unless you have a totally open and shut case which do seem like that with you as yet. 

Let the huff and puff adding evermore unlawful charges to the invoice. {The  £40 can only be charged to the driver, not the keeper and Judges appear to be slapping down the parking companies for their additions  and throwing out those cases.

 

Did you pay anything at all-and if so how long did you pay for.

Alternatively, if you didn't pay how long is the free period. 

 

Assuming that they were ever granted permission to erect signs in the car park, by the Council, and it is by no means certain, Councils usually allow 3 hours parking time so there are a few things that give reason for them having no hope of getting paid by you and it may be that they breached GDPR by even asking the DVLA for your details.

 

 

 

[AnotherMessIGotMyselfInto]

Hello HB, DX and Lookinforinfo,

 

It is the Lee Valley Ice Centre on Lea Bridge Road, E10 7QL.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x48761dac88c65d0b%3A0xf4d2e179cc7e4c84!3m1!7e115!4s%2Fmaps%2Fplace%2Flee%2Bvalley%2Bice%2Bcentre%2F%4051.5629989%2C-0.0442725%2C3a%2C75y%2C329.18h%2C90t%2Fdata%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211sKd7KCJe81vZjunAoEzegFg*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x48761dac88c65d0b%3A0xf4d2e179cc7e4c84%3Fsa%3DX!5slee valley ice centre - Google Search!15sCgIgAQ&imagekey=!1e2!2sKd7KCJe81vZjunAoEzegFg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2t9z9t47rAhWLZMAKHaToDEkQpx8wGXoECBcQCw

 

Thank you for replying. Sorry, this was my daughter and she now states she did not pay any money and there was no signage saying it was a pay and display car park. There were no signs stating how long you could park for or any restrictions on parking. 

 

Thank yoy,

SG

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

is she near there?

 

dx

 

[AnotherMessIGotMyselfInto]

Hello DX,

 

She is probably about 20 minutes away from there.

I have asked her to go there and look at the signage and take photographs as there appears to be a sign in the middle of the car park on Google Maps but that image was taken in 2016 and that sign may have been taken down as a lot of people have stated on TripAdvisor that they got caught out and received parking charge notices as well 

 

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g186338-d3229301-Reviews-Lee_Valley_Ice_Centre-London_England.html

[dx100uk]

signs

positions

small text etc.

 

have a dig into LVRPA i'm not sure if the authority operate their own byelaws.

i know they do in certain areas as i used to work for them.

but away from the rivers i'm not sure

 

is the complex owned by LVRPA or on LVRPA land?

 

dx

 

[Gick]

Although they certainly do have their own byelaws, these do not appear to cover parking.. Go to the link for on your post #5 and look at the bottom where there is a link to the Byelaws.

[lookinforinfo]

It seems that your daughter was not alone in missing the parking signs.

 

As she didn't pay and therefore did not accept their terms and conditions she was a tresspasser. Only the landowner can sue her and that won't happen.

 

You will still need pictures of the signage and the blurb on the ticket machine as that used to contradict the signage. When dealing with these crooks you need all the ammunition you can find as lies and cheating are their stock in trade.

 

Just get all your ducks in a row, completely ignoring all their threats and those of their unregulated debt collectors and their worse than useless solicitors. They would be stupid to try and force you to pay and until they do, just ignore all their antics.

[dx100uk]

i'm not sure if it even matters byelaws do or don't mention parking.....

the fact that a byelaw exist means a PPC are not in any position to dictate anything.

[AnotherMessIGotMyselfInto]

Hello Everyone,

Sorry I have not posted on here for a few days. 

I managed to get to the ice rink this evening and have posted photographs that might help decide if the parking notice should be paid? 

Thank you for replying before and in anticipation of additional help 

 

The first photograph is the exit of the car park, no automatic barrier. I presume the barrier that can be seen is never closed as one of the signs states parking charges are in force for 24 hours a day.

The second photograph is the sign in the car park 

The third photograph is the entry to the car park 

 

Just a thought, I might get a further ticket for going there and not paying again!  : (

 

IceRinkParkingNotices.pdf

Edited August 13, 2020 by AnotherMessIGotMyselfInto
Added additional information

[dx100uk]

any warning from the road BEFORE the entrance so you don't have to enter before seeing its not free?

 

still think this is LVRPA land.

 

dx

 

[AnotherMessIGotMyselfInto]

No, no warning, that was the first sign I saw

 

[dx100uk]

opps...thats wrong too

 

dx

 

[AnotherMessIGotMyselfInto]

I am sorry,

I don't know if I misunderstood,

 

I have taken a screenshot from Google Maps that might clarify.

I had to do a right turn into the ice rink from Lea Bridge Road.

From Lea Bridge Road, there is a small access road that leads you to the ice rink.

 

You can see the sign that is in my photographs on the left as you turn into the access road to the Ice Rink.

 

Once you have turned into this access road which leads to the ice rink you cannot turn back and Lea Bridge Road is a very busy Road, so you cannot reverse out.

 

You have to go into the car park to turn back around and out

 

Google Maps Entrance.pdf

[ericsbrother]

In short the NTK is not POFA compliant for more than 1 reason. No-one owes them any money, let alone the keeper.

Read the POFA and you will hopefully work out why

I note that the blurb at the botton about Beavis is not what the judges decided but a cobbled togetherversion to scare you into believeing that this piece of bog paper is somehow legit.

Signage fails to create a contract unless payment machine has the same blurb and you agreed to be bound by feeding the machine. No signs at entrance you see.

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by ericsbrother

[AnotherMessIGotMyselfInto]

Hello DX and Ericsbrother,

 

DX and Ericsbrother,  thank you for the latest replies to this thread.

 

I have read the notice, it is sent to the keeper and not the driver of the vehicle and there is no requirement for the keeper to identify the driver so there is no one left to pursue?

They have obtained information from the DVLA without permission to issue the notice to the keeper. Breach of DPA and GDPR?

There was no notice given to the driver  or anything left under the windscreen to advise them of the failure to pay the correct parking charge.

 

I did not see a payment machine when I went there again yesterday unless it is hidden in a corner somewhere. 

 

I am still not sure about the notice at the entrance, is the large sign not enough or does the sign have to be sited in a place before you actually turn into the access road? 

 

I hope I have understood all this correctly.

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by AnotherMessIGotMyselfInto
Added Information

[lookinforinfo]

The entrance sign has to say more than just informing that it is a private car park. To be able to form a  contract with the motorist it must itemise the rules and charges . Without those details the signis just an inviation to treat and so the motorist  doesn't have to accept the rules that are posted in the car park itself.

[AnotherMessIGotMyselfInto]

Thank you Lookinforinfo,

I understand now.

I appreciate the help

[Bazooka Boo]

Oh dear. adding ''debt collection charges'' AND charging for payments made by card.......tut tut CP plus you really are asking for trouble.

[BankFodder]

open

[AnotherMessIGotMyselfInto]

2 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

open

Good Morning,

Thank you very much, I am just redacting the notice of claim, I will hopefully be able to post it this evening.