Lowells Claim Form - old Talk Talk debt and an Eon Debt *** Claim Discontinued***

[sillygirl1]

Thanks, I think having such a clearly stated defence in the first place reslly helped.

 

Hopefully Lowells will comply, if not I assume it will be stayed?

[dx100uk]

should be on the order

 

what happens if the order is not complied with?

 

 

 

[sillygirl1]

Came home to a wad of paperwork from Lowell’s, will scan it up, front page is their standard  letter which states

 

We refer to the matter at the side of the page.

 

Please find enclosed a further and better particulars of Claim in compliance with the General Form of Judgment or order of District Judge xxx

 

Our client is keen to resolve the matter and would be willing to make any reasonable settlement proposal from you.

 

If you are unsure of anything please seek your own independent legal advice through the Citizens Advice Bureau or a paid solicitor of your own choosing.

 

Quick look through and electric is an estimated final bill for a period AFTER I moved out - I have the lease from my current flat to prove this,! 
 

Telephone bill has no call charges on it and clearly is all charges so again I can prove it isn’t mine, never was used and therefore dud.

 

 

[dx100uk]

pretty much std for these Lowell phone or util debt court claims - if you read here in the successes forum

 

they'll run this thru and poss past the WS stage but discontinue the claim just before they have to pay the fee or the actual hearing date.

 

its a speculative claim as most are hoping the defendant wets themselves and coughs up thru fright of court.

 

 

 

 

 

[sillygirl1]

I’m planning a rough draft on Friday as I have the afternoon clear, will state that the fact that no call were made on phone proves I did not have it, and evidence provided proves electric bill was not my responsibility (they had this when I was first chased ages ago)

[dx100uk]

On 07/09/2019 at 16:27, sillygirl1 said:

This is taken from one of the Lowell threads and amended

 

Particulars of claim for reference only

 

1) The Claim comprises the following Agreements the Defendant entered into:

a.  Talk Talk Telecom Group plc with ref xxxxx current balance £120.87

b.  E.on Energy Solutions Ltd with ref of xxxx and current balance of £1141.65

 

2)The Agreements were terminated as payments were not maintained and subsequently assigned to the Claimant.

 

And the Claimant claims:

 

a) total of thensaid sums being £1262.52

b) interest pursuant to s69 County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue being £101.00

c) Costs

 

Defence

 

1.The  Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature.The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

The claimant has placed two unrelated bills from two different companies and therefore their claim is misleading.

 

2. 1a Is denied.The first unsubstantiated claim is for a closed mobile phone/broadband account. It was closed due to Talk Talk’s well publicised data breaches.  The defendant was assured they could leave with no penalty, yet a penalty was applied and a further data breach occurred when this was passed to debt collectors.The defendant has repeatedly requested documentation on this and has not been supplied with any proof the claimants  are due relief as stated in their poorly particularised claim

 

3. 1b is denied. The claimant further claims the amount of xxx in respect to a long disputed alleged debt with eon energy suppliers.  The defendant had been incorrectly placed on a very high tariff with the company in 2012 despite being a low energy user and had continually had problems with back billing and estimated readings.  The defendant made a part payment to eon in 2013 to attempt a resolution but eon failed to keep their agreement.  They removed a faulty meter and destroyed it before checking  it and again refused to clear charges on the account relating to a period when the defendant was not living at the property in question.  The defendant changed suppliers in early 2014.

 

The defendant moved in 2015 and had received no annual statement or requests from EON until June 2019 when the claimant was/s assigned the alleged debt.

 

3.Furthermore, the claimant has given no details as to the breakdown of their claim what dates it relates to ,so I am  unable to defend specifically until the claimant can particularise and quantify its pleadings.

 

4. The claimant openly admits that they do not have access to the agreement nor was the Assignor required to retain a copy.Therefore their claim is unsubstantiated. Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a  written agreement:-

 

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s)  should be available at  the hearing.

 

With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-

 

a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement/s;

b) show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed ;

c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the monies are owed.

 

6. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

 

 

Can I have sime advice in the above, I know it doesnt have to be in til Fridaybut I am manically busy this week and want it done by tomorrow night.

 

what you need to do is to firm up and expand what you intimated in your initial defend 

particularly toward the TT debt.

 

can you scan to one multipage PDF what they have sent in relation to the TT debt please 

carefully read upload

[sillygirl1]

Here is the scan of the Talk Talk bit, clearly the account wasn’t used.

 

I can easily handle the Eon bit as the dates were long after I moved, I have lease and council tax bill as evidence which they have had previously.

 

The Talk talk debt is for a failed installation of a broadband line.  Ive never had a landline since I lived here!

The Eon debt is easily dealt with as I have lease and council tax to prove residency.

 

Is this any help

Some bits are in an old diary and there may be old paperwork.

 

The electric bill is dead in the water as I can easily legally prove I was not resident at the property and they knew it.

 

Again I feel a short defence denying my liability for both bills is needed.

 

 

 

amended poc.pdf

[dx100uk]

cant see lowells going near the courtroom door then..

is the dispute documented ?

[sillygirl1]

Can I please have some guidance!

 

Amended defence help needed as deadline is Friday.

 

So far I have pointed out that as they havent got an agreement they have no right to claim redresd

 

Account shows no usage and therefore is all charges.

 

Account dates contradict dates in Eon claim again providing evidence I resided elsewhere.

 

Help needed please!

[AndyOrch]

Quote

I’m planning a rough draft on Friday as I have the afternoon clear, 

 

Thats was 2 week ago..... we are still waiting to see your draft

[sillygirl1]

You are way behind, original defence went and the pdf posted above from Lowell’s was received last week.  

Rough draft was just stating facts below and a bit about me being in rented accommodation with no assets.

 

I am now going it alone as Lowell’s have no case against me, I wasn’t in the property when the bill for account 2 was done and account 1 I has no agreement and is full of charges but no usage.

 

My defence is going in tomorrow with lease and council tax bill as proof I wasn’t resident at time of bill (24 May to end Nov 14)

 

All I really needed was an update of the process, I assume I can file my defence online and send a copy to Lowell’s.  

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Not behind at all.....I was not referring to the original defence...I assisted you with that..I'm referring to the amended defence in response to the Court last order....the one you state you are submitting tomorrow.

 

And you dont submit evidence with a defence..your not at that stage yet.

[dx100uk]

This is taken from one of the Lowell threads and amended 
  
Particulars of claim for reference only 
  
1) The Claim comprises the following Agreements the Defendant entered into: 
a.  Talk Talk Telecom Group plc with ref xxxxx current balance £120.87 
b.  E.on Energy Solutions Ltd with ref of xxxx and current balance of £1141.65 
  
2)The Agreements were terminated as payments were not maintained and subsequently assigned to the Claimant. 
  
And the Claimant claims: 
  
a) total of thensaid sums being £1262.52 
b) interest pursuant to s69 County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue being £101.00 
c) Costs 
  
Defence 
  
The Defendant sets out its case below in relation to the claimants' amended Particulars of claim and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 
  
  
The Defendant denies owing either/both accounts to the claimant. 

1. Account 1 The first unsubstantiated claim is for a closed mobile phone/broadband account. It was closed due to Talk Talk’s well publicised data breaches.  The defendant was assured they could leave with no penalty, yet a penalty was applied and a further data breach occurred when this was passed to debt collectors.The defendant has repeatedly requested documentation on this and has not been supplied with any proof the claimants  are due relief as stated in their poorly particularised claim 
  
3. 1b is denied. The claimant further claims the amount of xxx in respect to a long disputed alleged debt with eon energy suppliers.  The defendant had been incorrectly placed on a very high tariff with the company in 2012 despite being a low energy user and had continually had problems with back billing and estimated readings.  The defendant made a part payment to eon in 2013 to attempt a resolution but eon failed to keep their agreement.  They removed a faulty meter and destroyed it before checking  it and again refused to clear charges on the account relating to a period when the defendant was not living at the property in question.  The defendant changed suppliers in early 2014. 
  
The defendant moved in 2015 and had received no annual statement or requests from EON until June 2019 when the claimant was/s assigned the alleged debt. 
  
3.Furthermore, the claimant has given no details as to the breakdown of their claim what dates it relates to ,so I am  unable to defend specifically until the claimant can particularise and quantify its pleadings. 
  
4. The claimant openly admits that they do not have access to the agreement nor was the Assignor required to retain a copy.Therefore their claim is unsubstantiated. Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a  written agreement:- 
  
(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s)  should be available at  the hearing. 
  
With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to:- 
  
a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement/s; 
b) show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed ; 
c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 
  
5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the monies are owed. 
  
6. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all. 

 ORIGINAL DEFENCE FILED THAT NEEDS ADAPTING NOW^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  

notes from your posts to date:

 

a) TV/Broadband terminated when they had two well publicised data breaches
What was the date of your last payment? 
  TV/ Broadband unknown 
Eon said 13 November 2013 so nigh on statute barred, defaulted long before this payment.... 

 

Dispute with Talk Talk was their data breaches.  had to stop using old email and house phone due to spam calls. 

 

Eon was long running dispute over billing, first bill included amounts I was not liable for (they thought I owned the property when I only rented it and tried back billing me).  The meter was also faulty and they had me do daily readings which proved that, meter was changed but they didn’t honour their agreement to remove  over billing.

 

 Part payment was made in Nov 2013 but they still sent incorrect bills.

 I moved from there in May 2015 with billing unresolved.  

Final reading was given and was way way lower than theirs. 

 

3.  The Talk Talk account for £120 is for charges after the account was closed due to well publicised data breaches, a further data breach occurred when they passed the unsubstantiated claim to the claimants. 
  
4.  The Eon debt has been long running since the inception of that account in 2012.  

In November 2013 a partial payment was made to try and resolve the issue but Eon failed to uphold their agreement and contract with me,

 Therefore this account has been in dispute for a considerable time. 

 

........................

 

notes about their amended poc you need to address in your amended defence:

 

6
b. a copy of the agreement was not provided to the defendant at the outset.

 

8. we need to see this final bill NA2

 

9. have you had the termination notice?

 

10 a copy of a template of what the notice of assignment from the claimant MIGHT have looked like is no good.

 

11.
b. a copy of the agreement was not provided to the defendant at the outset. 

 

12. we need to see the final bill please

 

13. a copy of a template of what the notice of assignment from the claimant MIGHT have looked like is no good.

 

19 i adver that the claimant has not suffered any loss, they took the risk in purchasing these bad debts, they provided neither of the services directly to me and were never and have never been a consumer service provider. 

a few musings for you.

 

your amended defence is due 4pm today 

you email it to the court quoting the claim number in the subject line.

 

dx

 

[sillygirl1]

The eon bill is clearly an estimated bill sent a couple of weeks after moved and estimated to Nobember 14.

 

The order stated Lowellshad til the 10th Feb to provide docs and ten days after that date I had to do my amended defence.  So I have a few more days.

 

I did send the bills in the original pdf I posted.

 

As I dont have to provide the council tax doc and lease I can just extend myy origonal defence with the bits stating the had no agreement.

 

I am bery busu at wotk today but will get amended defence up at lunchtime.

 

 

 

[sillygirl1]

Amended defence, trying to krep it as brief as possible.

Document1.pdf

[AndyOrch]

I would keep it close to the initial defence submitted above with perhaps any slight amendments.It must be be CPR complient in the format above.....your intended defence above is very weak.

[sillygirl1]

Thanks, I will use that then and add that they have no agreements and suffered no loss at the end of each account section.

 

I am going to ring the court and find out when it needs to be in.

[dx100uk]

templated NOA's needs to be in there too.

[AndyOrch]

Simply respond to each paragraph of their amended particulars...dont add anything or inform them of any information only you are aware of........remember they have nothing no documents...no history...they draft their particulars to mislead the court that have full knowledge of the debts...when in fact they have nothing...apart from a few statements and recreated docs..

 

If the court is satisfied with the amended poc and your initial defence and if it should proceed.....then both parties will have to submit a further in detail statement of claim (witness statement )with all the finer details.....so the less you tell them now the less they will have to use against you in their WS.

[sillygirl1]

Thanks, I will add the bit about no agreements to each bit on my origonal defence and email it to the court this evening.

 

Wont do a fuller one just yet as you advise.

 

Fingers crossed!

[sillygirl1]

Defence sent by email to court.  Used the original defence and added the bit about no agreements available and they are a debt purchaser to all three parts, the pics are still generic.

 

Will keep you posted.

[sillygirl1]

After a long silence had a phone call from Lucas Credit aka Lowlife solicitors today.  Confidently passed security and told them debts wouldn’t hold up against my evidence (defence sent in followed theirs exactly, refuting all allegations).  

 

Was told statute barring began after last acknowledgement and corrected her on that point. 

 

They trotted out the payment dates, Eon payment of Nov 13 she insisted wasn’t statute barred and I pointed out it would have been had they not started court action.

 

Kept my cool and said I would see them in court with pleasure when they said they were proceeding with court action.

Will let you know what turns up next.

 

[dx100uk]

so the claim is well stayed again?

wonder what it's status is with the court system??

[dx100uk]

opps hit reply too early

 

lucas are a dca they can't represent Lowell sols in any fashion.

 

dx

 

[sillygirl1]

I knew they were hoping I would panic.  Can’t get into the record on the court system but I think it is stayed,.  
 

Following their defence layout seemed logical, Indid point out they were not the original creditors, the talk talk debt was a cock up on their side and the eon one was similar and they were also chasing a bill dated three weeks after I left the property and dated another three months ahead.  All this was on the defence.

 

Ive told them no more phone calls and blocked the number they were calling on.