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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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UKCPS ANPR PCN - Bristol Abbeywood BR005XX - NTK received.


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Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all Caggers. Long may the tradition of kicking the proverbial out of unfair companies continue.

 

 

just to update,

I received a further letter from UKCPS just before Christmas.

It was entitled debt recovery notice,

but I am presuming it's just been passed to the next desk in the office?

Redacted scan attached.

 

Ericsbrother, the signage detail is in the attachment on post 5.

 

I will get a site plan/pic up shortly.

 

I was reading up on the PP BlogSpot and he advises responding using the appeals process, if only to get the paper trail and show that it's rubbish.

 

I believe I am past that point now, but is there anything more I should do at this point in terms of response?

letter 3 redacted.pdf

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as you can see they are trying it on and now claiming £160 when no such debt exists.

 

Like their supposed NTK,

that has the wrong wording,

they know that if they want to claim keeper liability

then they have to obey the protocols of the POFA

this taradiddle doesnt do that.

 

What they are hoping for is that you now pay up in the belief that if you don't the amount will keep going up.

They rely on ignorance that matches theirs to earn a dishonest crust.

 

Their signage is fatally flawed as well,

no address for the company on it,

another POFA requirement

this is needed to create a contract, not just a keeper liability.

 

I wish Trading standards would enforce the law on this and make them refund everyone who paid when they weren't required to.

 

Unfortunately the commentators in the press don't seem to understand these points so they never see the light of day.

safe to ignore this.

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  • 3 weeks later...

And so the comedy train rumbles on.

 

Today I received the letter attached.

 

It appears that UKCPS have passed their speculative invoice to their pet debt collectors.

 

Am I ok to continue ignoring,

or should I write to/phone the new clowns along the lines of "the debt is in dispute with your principle, therefore naff off!"?

letter 4 redacted.pdf

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when have we ever said ring anyone? esp DCA's

where have we ever said a DCA has ANY powers whatsoever?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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if you had bothered to read any other thread where dca's are mentioned

you would have found the answer and that is exactly as dx100 says.

You ALWAYS ignore a dca because they have no interest in anything and no powers to do anything.

 

ask yourself why are they asking for £160 when the supposed debt is £100 at most?

 

Answer is because they know if you are stupid enough to think they have some authority you will pay this amount. Money for nothing for them.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok, so it appears the pet debt collectors are intent on ratcheting up the scare factor.

 

Today I received the attached letter entitled "Notice of intended court action". Am I correct in assuming that this should be their last letter before they put up or shut up and actually put in for court papers?

 

Anything further I should do at this point in terms of prepping defence etc, just in case they do decide to actually try it on in court?

letter 5 redacted.pdf

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Nope, probably at least one more due yet. This will be their last gasp effort to try and get something, anything out of you. It'll be their 'ever so generous' "Reduced Payment Offer", probably for £129 or there abouts.

 

Then DRP will go quiet. They might try it on with a letter from 'Zetith Collections', or a letter from SCS Law or Gladstones Solicitors (all of which will put the price back up to £160 and tell you to pay DRP). So while these letters might appear to be from SCS or Gladstones, in reality it's just a 'rent a letterhead service' so it's DRP in a party frock still desperate to get you to pay for the prom dress. :wink:

 

Only UKCPS can issue instructions to actually make a claim against you. DRP are only able to stamp their feet like a truculent toddler.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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Thanks for the fast reply. Okey doke. Filled for now then. There's probably at least 2 more full sets of letters to go for different tickets as well (different date/car for which I am the keeper). What a waste of paper!

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  • 1 month later...

Righty, after a bit of a hiatus, during which DRP sent me one more begging letter,

I have received a letter from a new player in this game, miah solicitors (see attachment).

 

Am I correct in thinking that this is a "rent a letterhead" style letter and it should also get filed under "b for bin"?

 

Is there any further legwork I should do now in terms of prepping a defence etc in case UKCPS do actually attempt court with this?

letter 6 redacted.pdf

Edited by mechsman
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Righty, after a bit of a hiatus, during which DRP sent me one more begging letter, I have received a letter from a new player in this game, miah solicitors (see attachment). Am I correct in thinking that this is a "rent a letterhead" style letter and it should also get filed under "b for bin"? Is there any further legwork I should do now in terms of prepping a defence etc in case UKCPS do actually attempt court with this? [ATTACH=CONFIG]71023[/ATTACH]

 

Another one for the file...

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urn..NO

its a letter before claim

and you have a response pack yes like attached

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Lovely how a firm of (so called) solicitors are breaking the law by adding a £1 "administration charge" for credit/debit card payments.

 

As there's no "administration charge" if you use bank transfer, that £1 fee is illegal.

 

That's without going into the additional £60 (on top of the original 'PCN') which is completely unenforceable unless you've admitted that you were the driver and even then it's pretty sketchy unless the £60 is specified on the signs.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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urn..NO

its a letter before claim

and you have a response pack yes like attached

It's not titled as such?

I received nothing other than what was in the scanned attachment, so nothing like the form you have shown. Is this a standard form, or should I expect to received a version of this from the solicitor?

 

Lovely how a firm of (so called) solicitors are breaking the law by adding a £1 "administration charge" for credit/debit card payments.

 

As there's no "administration charge" if you use bank transfer, that £1 fee is illegal.

 

That's without going into the additional £60 (on top of the original 'PCN') which is completely unenforceable unless you've admitted that you were the driver and even then it's pretty sketchy unless the £60 is specified on the signs.

 

Yeah, I thought adding an "admin charge" for the most common method of payment was a bit cheeky.

 

I have not given the identity of the driver, I would be defending any attempted claim as the keeper. Copies of the signage are in the attachments in post 5 if required.

Edited by mechsman
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It's not only cheeky, it's outright illegal.

 

 

I know the signage, I don't live a million miles away and have been to the retail park at Abbeywood many times, although I still try to avoid it whenever possible (shopping in general that is :lol:).

 

If they actually waste the money to take you to court, presuming that you're in Bristol, I'd be happy to come along for moral support and so as to see these sharks well & truly beaten. They don't have a lot of chance of winning this.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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so a non compliant letter of claim when PAP doesn't apply to PPC claims anyway...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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It's not only cheeky, it's outright illegal.

 

 

I know the signage, I don't live a million miles away and have been to the retail park at Abbeywood many times, although I still try to avoid it whenever possible (shopping in general that is :lol:).

 

If they actually waste the money to take you to court, presuming that you're in Bristol, I'd be happy to come along for moral support and so as to see these sharks well & truly beaten. They don't have a lot of chance of winning this.

Ahhhh, righto. I don't live a million miles from there either. You're welcome to come if they actually try it.

so a non compliant letter of claim when PAP doesn't apply to PPC claims anyway...

 

Non compliant on two counts? 1. not titled correctly and 2. no response pack?

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well atleast those but as its not a letter of claim ...anyway.

PAP doesn't apply to PPC claim so ignore it .

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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That's without going into the additional £60 (on top of the original 'PCN') which is completely unenforceable unless you've admitted that you were the driver and even then it's pretty sketchy unless the £60 is specified on the signs.

 

Small point Dragon Fly. The way I read POFA regarding extra charges, it applies to the Keeper, so if the driver is the keeper then the charge cannot be added. Is that right or have I the wrong end of the stick?

 

I never cease to be amazed how the parking cowboys can dredge up such solicitors. If they spent half as much time getting their acts together they could dispense with second rate questionable legals altogether.

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You are right, when keeper liability is created it is for the amount on the sign/invoice(NTK and they cat add anything else even if the sign at the car park mentions additioanl fees because the keeper was never party to this contract.

 

The reason they ass this extra is because it is suggested to them by Will and John who then use the exta money to pay for their legal acction. Obviously they then add another £50 legal fees on top at court because most punters dont realise they are being double charged.

Edited by honeybee13
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So if defending as keeper, this would be something to highlight to the judge as being a crock of the proverbial then? ;)

 

Absolutely!

 

If the keeper wasn't driving, how on earth could they possibly be a party to a contract that was (so the PPC claim) agreed to by the driver. Whilst these so called "enforcement costs" might be recoverable (still dubious) from the driver, they most certainly are not recoverable from the keeper as the keeper wasn't the driver.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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Hypothetically, if the keeper were driving, would they have to reveal this to the judge?

I would presume the answer would be yes, if asked, but no otherwise?

 

If the keeper were driving at the time, I would therefore assume that it would NOT be wise to highlight the above, even if defending as keeper?

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Hypothetically, yes, but only because it would be very unwise indeed to lie to a Judge :lol:

 

However, by the time it gets to court they are suing you as the keeper not the driver, so it doesn't matter (in law) if they find out who the driver was, it's not them that they're suing.

 

This is where most of the claims we see fall down as they claim "driver and/or keeper", which is useless. They have to choose who they're suing and why, not just throw a net in the water and see what they catch.

 

99 times out of 100, the Judge won't ask, because it doesn't matter.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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I know DF has answered you while I was typing, but I've posted regardless.

 

You're not at the court stage yet, so don't worry yourself over stuff that has yet to happen. In any case, it will depend on whether they chase you as the driver or keeper. If they chase you as the keeper, then the question of driver becomes irrelevant - then they need to be POFA compliant.

 

If they chase you as the driver then your question is more valid and could well arise.

 

As ericsbrother has stated about a thousand times, if you're asked.

you are under no obligation to incriminate yourself.

 

The burden of proof is on the claimant to produce evidence in support of their claim, with the key aspect being evidence of the identity of the driver.

 

EB will probably give you a suitable response, but I know we will all behave differently when faced with that question in an intimidating environment.

 

I would personally be concerned about giving a judge any reason to find my body language questionable and might respond with -

 

 

"I am not the only person with access to the vehicle,

Sir/Madam, but I don't personally have any recollection of parking at that location on the date stated.

However, the more pertinent question is why the claimant has not produced evidence to prove the identity of the driver - evidence they should have gathered prior to issuing a claim.

 

Their claim is against the driver, yet they have supplied no evidence whatsoever of the their identity. To blindly assume that I was the driver is absurd and is a serious flaw in their case."

 

 

They may ask if you are able to identify the driver, to which you can simply say "no".

 

 

Look on the Parking Prankster's Blog site and do a search for "India Beaven"

- the result that comes top outlines a case that was dropped over this very point.

 

They may try to be clever and remain unclear about whether they are chasing the driver or the keeper, which is just a game to confuse those who are ignorant of the difference.

 

 

Do plenty of research and you'll soon see the two can be separated and successfully challenged quite easily.

Edited by dx100uk
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