Black Horse Secured Loan / 2nd Mortgage arrears dispute FOS complaint

[dx100uk]

hand written agreement number

 

 

urm..no dice me thinks

and no T&C's

[Baz1994]

Cheers dx sorry been away over weekend.

 

So what would be my next step - shall I push again for details and query why the hand written agreement number has been entered ?

 

They did quote a completely different typed reference underneath but I have asked twice what this is in relation to but no explanation ?

 

I again received today a letter from Blackhorse claiming that they have sent everything that they are required to as part of my SAR and even Skye Loans Ltd sent a copy of the same document but again no t & c's ?

[Baz1994]

second thoughts, maybe no limit, the 25k re being business. unless that was applicable at the time?

maybe re something else, check this partic re p3 'fsa regulated mortgages', second charge being regulated.

http://www.fieldfisher.com/media/1762852/Lending-to-individuals-203384921.PDF

 

Thanks Ford I will have a look later.

[Baz1994]

Just a few questions for any mortgage experts on here as I require some clarity and help.

 

I have an existing mortgage with the bank and later took out a secured loan on the property.

 

1) Do I have to notify the lender of the charge ?

 

2) Does the secured loan company have to notify the original lender or seek permission first ?

 

3) If they do under what law does it state this ?

 

4) Do all further charges to the property / secured loans have to be regulated by the CCA 1974 ?

 

Thank-you for looking.

[citizenB]

I would have thought there was some collusion between the 1st mortgage holder and 2nd mortgage holder that the 2nd loan had been taken out.

 

I would have said all loans would require to be regulated - although looking at the FSA handbook (now FCA) they became regulated after October 2004.

 

https://fshandbook.info/FS/html/handbook/MCOB/1/6

 

Does this help ?

 

You might need to find an updated version within the Financial Conduct authority Hand book.

 

Hmm, according to this.. mortgages are not regulated under the Consumer credit Act ?

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/borrowing-money/your-rights-when-you-borrow-money/

 

I think I will ask others on the Site team for you.

[Baz1994]

Hmm, according to this.. mortgages are not regulated under the Consumer credit Act ?

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/borrowing-money/your-rights-when-you-borrow-money/

 

I think I will ask others on the Site team for you.

 

Thanks citizen for your help and await anyone elses clarification.

 

Please not that the second charge / secured loan was CCA 1974 regulated. The secured loan company have advised that their loans were different so no need to seek original mortgage lender's permission. They actually quote that they applied direct to the land registry and they can see no reason why the bank would refuse as it would not change anything ????

 

Sorry for another silly question - would the original mortgage lender be the 1st charge ?

[citizenB]

Mortgages are regulated under - MCOB (Mortgage Conduct of Business rules)

 

 

http://fsahandbook.info/FSA/html/handbook/MCOB

 

Righto, well this is where your mortgages would be regulated in the link above

 

and yes, the first charge would be your 1st lender.

 

You can check out what is going on with charges at the Land Registry for free, on the link below.

 

https://www.gov.uk/protect-land-property-from-fraud

[Baz1994]

thanks again citizen.

 

I will just have to try and locate something hopefully from the handbook.

[Baz1994]

send a CCA request

 

 

£1PO leave it blank

don't sign anything

 

 

dx

 

Hi dx

 

Response to my CCA request received today from Skye Loans Ltd.

 

They have cashed my cheque and submitted the exact copy of Credit Agreement in post # 1. Still no T & C's or no requested booklet of standard loan terms.

 

They have also stated that the mortgage account is unregulated and therefore not governed by the CCA 1974 & 2006

[Baz1994]

Further to my earlier post I received an arrears amount letter from Skye Loans last month in which I disputed as no breakdown in what it was in relation to.

 

They acknowledged my dispute letter and said that they would liaise with BlackHorse for further details.

 

Well today I received a further arrears statement letter from Skye for a different amount but including the previous arrears but now they have also included added fees ?

 

Do I send another dispute letter or is there a further template letter to use ?

 

Apparently after reviewing SAR details from BH, it now transpires that the original loan was CCA regulated but then refinanced with an additional amount (See attached) in which is not ? Also the agreement number was handwritten.

 

Thank-you for looking

[Chelliebelliew]

Be very careful because this is how my problem started I asked for a breakdown of charges and fees!

[Baz1994]

Thanks Chelliebelliew and I have seen your post.

 

I have already disputed the amount in writing under FCA regulations but will take note of your comments when dealing with them.

[Baz1994]

I received another letter from Skye Loans today and again totally ignoring my previous Account in dispute letters

 

 

requesting that I urgently contact them by telephone (they do not have my new number) to discuss.

 

There was a previous arrears amount with BH in which I disputed as they had not provided any evidence as what it was in relation to.

 

I had previously requested that all correspondence should be in writing.

 

They have also again added default fees to the account and said that interest will also be added.

 

Any idea as to what I should do next ?

 

Thank-you

[Baz1994]

Further to my earlier posts, has anyone else taken out a BH secured loan (unregulated) around 2001 ?

 

If so did you receive one loan agreement and one legal charge documentation or one combined agreement ?

 

Thank-you

[Baz1994]

For any mortgage experts on here, can someone kindly advise do you have to notify or have consent from the original mortgage lender if considering a third charge on your property ?

 

And if so will the second charge / mortgage have to be notified ?

 

Or is this all done by the Land Registry ?

 

Thanks for looking

[Baz1994]

Sorry to resurrect old post but did not want to open a new thread.

 

I have been awaiting further details and after investigating I would appreciate any expert advice regarding Charge Register details.

 

There are 3 charges on the property - 1 x original mortgage lender, 2 x secured loans

 

2nd secured loan company stating that they follow original mortgage lender and so see no reason why they should have notified original mortgage lender. Therefore registered their charge directly to LR.

 

Register extract clearly states that they are actually the 3rd charge on property ?

 

Now under Section b: Proprietorship Register / Title absolute, the 2nd secured loan company (3rd charge) have entered a restriction dated when the loan was taken out but there is no other entry for the 2nd charge ?

 

Under Section c: Charges register all seems to be in order as per the Register extract, with the 2nd loan entity as the 3rd charge on property ?

 

Apologies for any confusion but I would appreciate some clarity regarding the above mentioned and if all seems correct.

 

Thank-you

[citizenB]

I will try and find someone who can help.

[Baz1994]

I will try and find someone who can help.

 

Thanks Citizen as always and hope someone can.

[Baz1994]

I have attached relevant edited details for reference.

 

Sorry to sound stupid but why didn't the first loan (2nd charge) enter a restriction ?

img519.pdf

[citizenB]

Yes, I would have thought that the first mortgage would have registered their interest ?

 

Is there a page 2 ?

[Baz1994]

Is there a page 2 ?

 

Thanks Citizen

 

Yes there is but it is in respect of C:Charges Register in which all seems correct, main mortgage lender, 2nd & 3rd charge (2 x secure loans).

 

So again apologies for sounding stupid but what is the difference between Proprietorship Register and Charges Register ?

 

Why have the 2nd secured personal loan entered a restriction yet the 1st secured loan / 2nd mortgage has not ?

 

Thanks again

[citizenB]

I have absolutely no idea, Baz ? It is my understanding that "restriction" notices are only used in respect of Charging Orders - where a lender has issued a claim and then secured it on the property ?

 

What do the the Land Registry say ?

[Baz1994]

ok thanks again citizen

 

That's why I was asking and that was my understanding as it seems that WFS have put a restriction on the property on outset of loan ?

 

Do I need to contact the Land Registry do you think for confirmation ? A little confused as to why they have done this ?

 

Perhaps someone else may be able to add some advice.

 

Cheers

[citizenB]

Can I just clarify the status of the secured loan. Is it a joint mortgage, but the secured loan is in only one name ?

[Baz1994]

We have a joint mortgage and the secured loans are in both names.

 

The first secured loan is a is a second mortgage,

the second secured loan is a small personal loan on the agreement and in both names.

 

Cheers

 

Baz