First Found Internet Search Engine Debt Claim form received.

[dedicated]

Gannymede, have you actually read any of the posts? It's a self filled out document that has been sent out prior to any court action, legal action or even being acknowledged by any court. It is menacing, deceptive, bordering on criminal blackmail (contact me or else) - I'm an ex cop. I know what people get up to and how they think they can get away with it.

[AndyOrch]

Gannymede, have you actually read any of the posts? It's a self filled out document that has been sent out prior to any court action, legal action or even being acknowledged by any court. It is menacing, deceptive, bordering on criminal blackmail (contact me or else) - I'm an ex cop. I know what people get up to and how they think they can get away with it.

 

I think you should really wait until the 3rd Feb before making any allegations as above..It is quite normal in manual claims for the copy served on yourself to be un stamped and with no claim number...because it has yet to be issued.

 

Alternatively you can check with Manchester County Court that one will be issued on 3rd February 2017 from the claimant " Firstfound"

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Ganymede]

Gannymede, have you actually read any of the posts? It's a self filled out document that has been sent out prior to any court action, legal action or even being acknowledged by any court. It is menacing, deceptive, bordering on criminal blackmail (contact me or else) - I'm an ex cop. I know what people get up to and how they think they can get away with it.

 

Yes, I've read the whole thread and it is neither of those things.

 

Who do you think fills in the Court paperwork if not the Claimant?

[dedicated]

Yes, I've read the whole thread and it is neither of those things.

 

Who do you think fills in the Court paperwork if not the Claimant?

 

I of course understand what you are saying but it is the way in which it has been completed. Court amounts are incorrect, solicitors fees are incorrect. That is my point and there is no getting around that as I am in possession of the document with those facts. They are not "allegations", they are facts. Apologies if I didn't explain it clearly and I will also check with MCC first thing this morning.

[Ganymede]

I of course understand what you are saying but it is the way in which it has been completed. Court amounts are incorrect, solicitors fees are incorrect. That is my point and there is no getting around that as I am in possession of the document with those facts. They are not "allegations", they are facts. Apologies if I didn't explain it clearly and I will also check with MCC first thing this morning.

 

I don't think anyone has said otherwise have they? It clearly seems that mistakes have been made with regards to costs, but that can be dealt with at the end of the claim, you will still need a legal basis for defending the claim against you.

 

Depending on when the forms were sent off to Court to issue they may not have been processed yet.

[dedicated]

I know I need a legal basis for defending the claim and I'm working on that at the moment. These are serious "mistakes", regardless of whether the claim has been submitted via the court or not. I'll explain why this is serious, had this been sent to someone else, perhaps someone who would panic at this, it would have had a possible prescribed effect.

 

I'll be checking with MCC as soon as it opens and depending on that will depend on my next steps. I'm now going to choose what I disclose here as they are also privy to this and I don't want to divulge my defence or further stages. Thanks to all for their advice.

 

I'll update regarding certain aspects of what I find out from MCC that will not damage my case.

[Ganymede]

Yes, please keep us updated.

 

Although the Claimant will see you Defence soon anyway so I'm not sure how damaging it will be.

[dedicated]

Sure. I just mean the aspects of it and also my counter claim.

[dedicated]

I have spoken to Manchester County Court this morning, no Claim has been put through.

 

Also, the figures on the document are legally incorrect, we know this but it wouldn't even get into the court system with these figures on and also, as they have issued this document it is now a matter for me as to whether I send this through to the court for investigation as I am absolutely right in what I said above, this is menacing and a falsification of a legal court document.

 

HMCTS are going to be sent a copy today as they have requested with a copy of the letter they also sent.

 

I will update in due course. Obviously FF can see this which is why I am posting this.

[BankFodder]

We have had several instances in the past of firms – especially debt collectors – sending "draft" claim forms to people who are they are chasing for money – and then we find that the claims are never issued.

 

Frankly I think that this is unethical and abusive.

 

Anyway, if they issue the claim then you will soon find out. If they issue the claim on the same figures that you have told us about here, then as I have already said, because it is a small claim quite a lot of it is not claimable. Also, you have told us that there has been no evidence of any involvement from solicitors and you certainly have been written to by a solicitor. If they do claim £500 solicitors fee then I would have thought that you would dispute this on the basis that it is not a valid part of the claim and in any event you put them to proof that they have used the services of a solicitor in the follow up to the issue of their draft.

 

I don't think a judge would be very happy if they couldn't substantiate their expenditure of £500 on a solicitor – regardless of the invalidity of the element of the claim.

 

I'm sure that First Found are beyond reproach but if others made claims couldn't be substantiated then I think I might be looking at this: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35

[dedicated]

Now a Police matter.

[silverfox1961]

Hi

I am no legal guru but I had to respond.

I have seen a few threads where a 'sample' court claim has been sent to the ex customer with no real intention to file a claim in order to scare the customer into paying.

 

The amounts claimed will never be allowed. £500 for solicitors costs where no solicitor has been involved is just laughable. As this case (IF it ends up in court) is likely to be on the small claims track, solicitor costs are capped and the £500 would never be allowed.

Admin fees need to be the actual costs involved so they would be expected to prove that amount. Unlikely!

 

It also seems like no pre action protocol has been followed. In normal circumstances, there would be a couple of letters demanding X amount to clear the contractual obligations and from what I can read, that should be around two months payments.

There then should be a Letter Before Action/Claim which you could have responded to. What it seems to me is that FF have jumped straight to issuing the 'sample' court claim.

 

I would think this may form a pattern of harassment. How many phone calls!!!

[dedicated]

They self confessed to

 

 

"Since you cancelled your Direct Debit in November we have tried to speak with you on 23 occasions. Unfortunately all calls" - this is part of the thread deleted by admin as they hadn't followed the forum rules. That is what was in the contact FF put on here.

 

Below £300.00 value of the claimants claim then the Court fee is a max of £35.00 and the total they could claim for solicitors is £50.00 - from Manchester County Court.

 

If indeed they actually used solicitors, which they have not.

And yes, no protocol followed at all.

 

BankFodder

- You are absolutely spot on. I

 

 

have spent an hour this morning on the phone to various areas of HMCTS and this is now a Police matter which is exactly what I said yesterday.

[Ganymede]

They self confessed to "Since you cancelled your Direct Debit in November we have tried to speak with you on 23 occasions. Unfortunately all calls" - this is part of the thread deleted by admin as they hadn't followed the forum rules. That is what was in the contact FF put on here.

 

Below £300.00 value of the claimants claim then the Court fee is a max of £35.00 and the total they could claim for solicitors is £50.00 - from Manchester County Court.

 

The post from First Found hasn't been deleted and is still there.

 

The costs claimed are incorrect but that alone won't invalidate the claim.

 

And as for it now being a Police matter, frankly that's just a complete waste of Police time as there is nothing criminal in sending a copy of the Claim Form to you.

[dedicated]

There is Ganymede

if it is with intention to elicit monies by menaces,

it is called Blackmail.

 

 

Waste of time or not,

if someone acts criminally then they should be investigated.

 

 

I find that comment very disturbing to be honest.

 

 

As for invalidating the claim,

yes it does,

in this case but they haven't processed it in court so there isn't one,

that's that element finished for now.

 

 

The next is the Police matter which is down to myself and also to involve the courts.

 

I am also seriously considering taking legal action myself now against the Directors of First Found.

 

My mistake for using the term "removed" I should have said, unavailable.

[Ganymede]

It is neither removed or unavailable and the post remains there for all to see.

 

Legal action against the Directors for what?

 

You're getting bogged down in irrelevant arguments which is distracting you from your Defence.

[dedicated]

My apologies, I hadn't noticed it had been re-enabled. It was taken off yesterday but I hadn't gone back to re-read it so I apologise for that.

 

As for legal action against FF Dir, I am not prepared to disclose that on here as they can see it. I'm not arguing either Ganymede, just responding to you. That said, my defence is on "hold" at the moment until I need to actually create one, as as it stands today, there is no case with regards to FF for their claim as it doesn't exist.

 

If in fact I need to put the defence together I will let you all know. With regards to the police, as an ex police officer I am extremely concerned that people think they can get away with this and I intend to make it my business now to ensure that it is investigated thoroughly.

[Ganymede]

Nothing wrong with getting a head start on the Defence as you now know what their claim will be.

 

Let us know when you get served the claim by the Court.

 

And good luck with the Police investigation.

 

However, I suspect it will go nowhere fast.

[dedicated]

Of course I will,

although if they do proceed,

I will as someone suggested take great pleasure in showing the document they sent out to the judge and to bring to light their intentions with regards to their costs (or lack of them) and their intended deception .

 

As for the PI, that's a matter for GMP to consider as it the offence was committed on their territory.

 

Just to bring this into more perspective, this is the letter that was sent to FF on Saturday 28th January 2017.

 

Names of individuals removed;

"In regards to your letter and copy of form N1 County Court Claim Form, I must advise you that any Court Action will be vehemently defended in full.

 

The claim is disproportionate and menacing.

 

I feel I must point out that the amount of the claim is for £241.27 which is below the figures set out by Her Majesty’s Court and Tribunal Service (HMCTS) of £300.00.

 

As such, a claim in a paper form is £35.00 or £25.00 if online, the figure of £170.00 is extremely disproportionate and not inline with the stipulations set out by HMCTS.

 

There have been no solicitors involvement at all and I am very aware that you are not permitted to levy solicitors costs and they are not claimable at the amount you suggest of £500.00, as such the figure you have listed for the Court Fee of £170.00 is also incorrect.

 

In the event you decide to reduce your claim I will bring to the attention of the Court the documents now in my possession which you have sent as evidence of the tactics you are using to intimidate and obtain payment.

 

This method of tactic is menacing and deceptive and I will put this to the court and fully expect the court to take a very dim view on this as it amounting to an abuse of process using court documents to make an unjustifiable threat.

 

In July 2016 (employee name removed) disabled a Copyright Protection Plug-in from my web site which resulted in loss of revenue as it allowed clients to download images from my web site that I would have otherwise sold to them.

 

This is negligence, lack of care and due diligence and will be sought in a Counter Claim.

 

I have evidence of emails sent that raised concern that work undertaken by First Found has not made any improvement and no response was received.

 

I wrote to First Found at the end of October 2016 outlining my concerns and no response was forthcoming.

 

I documented in that letter that no further payments would be made on the account until I had a breakdown of the work undertaken and the number of hours accrued.

 

You have also suggested that you are still working on the web site even though when I ceased payments after failure to respond to my letter in October that you were still working on my web site, this is a blatant lie as I changed all passwords and removed access to the web site at the time.

 

All further communication shall now be in writing only and you are hereby notified to cease all calls to both my mobile phone and home telephone.

 

I look forward to your response."

[Ganymede]

If it gets to Court then come back to us and you will get help with what to say and how to present your case.

[dedicated]

Thank you.

[dedicated]

Just a quick update. Called MCC again this afternoon and still nothing filed. TS are interested in this matter and they have also been sent copies of all the documentation and from this forum. Just to keep everyone in the loop with what's happening.

[silverfox1961]

Thank you for the update. I hope the police take an interest in this in order to dissuade others from following this practice.

[dedicated]

Absolutely. I am on the phone to Greater Manchester Police right now.

 

Not unsurprising either but no contact or response to the letter I sent them on Saturday.

[Ganymede]

What are their thoughts on it?