VCS + BW Legal - letter of claim.PCN.march 2014

[gaznets]

From reading through the threads its apparent that BW are scrapping the bottom of the barrel to get some business.

 

I myself received a letter of claim from BW stating all the fees that I will have to pay and quoting legal battles that mean I wouldn't win if it went to court. Having had no contact with anyone up to now I'm wondering what the next step would be?

 

VCS apparently issued me with a ticket on 26th march 2014, personally I have no clue about this apart from receiving a letter through the post, myself as the keeper didn't get a ticket and my wife as a named driver never mentioned receiving one. I got a couple of letters off them and followed the advice of another forum which at the time was to ignore, the case was then referred to their debt collecting agency ROSSENDALES who sent me 4 letters with the last threatening a potential field visit.

 

This was dated 27th April 2015. I heard nothing until BW Legal sent me a letter with a letter from VCS also inserted to tell me that they are referring it to their debt collector? I thought they had already done this with ROSSENDALES? I've also had calls off BW which I haven't answered but they leave an automated answer phone message, how did they get my number?

 

BW have sent me two letters the first explaining that they are taking over the debt and the second outlining the potential costs. I've attached all documents sent to me apart from the initial VCS letters that I think had bee thrown away, I also have the letters from Rossendales if needed What steps should I take next if any? Many thanks

[ericsbrother]

OK, did they slap a ticket on your car on the 26th March 2014 and then send a NTK to you as the keeper between 29-56 days later?

 

You dont say where this event occurred, knowing that will aid us enormously as VCS often have such rubbish signage that they can never create a contractual obligation so no monies can then be owed for breaching this contract.

 

the contents of BW's letters are rubbish, they cannot add £54 in legal fees because the civil procedure regs dont allow it but they put this down because they woyuld like some money for nothing and think that if you believe the rest of their tripe you will pay it.

 

However, that doesnt mean that doing or saying nothing is the best option, you need to now create a paper trail that will show that any claim they make via the courts is vexed as you have pointed out some deficiency in their claim.

 

That is why we need to know a little more about the dates of the letters/where the parking event was so we can suggest a one line response that shows that you arent burying your head in the sand but havent answered because you hold the claim in contempt.

[gaznets]

Myself and my wife cant ever remember getting a ticket on the car and honestly I cant remember the date we got the first letter.

 

from what it says on the letter of claim from BW the ticket was issued at - the maltings, Leicester davenport & sons ltd

 

. This is a factory at the back of my parents house which allows access to the back of 5 or 6 houses and operates 9-5,

 

the only time we would have stopped there is if we were getting our son out of the car (other options is getting him out on a main road), usually we get him out and the other goes and parks the car on the road.

 

all the dates are on the letters that I attached but if you need me to resend i'll happily do so,

 

I've also been and taken pictures of the sign posted outside the factory standing next to it

and what I could see from the car and the google view of where the location is.

let me know if you need any more information

docs 2.pdf

[gaznets]

attach are all the letters from post one that had to be removed because of reference codes being on show. im not sure how to put them all into one file though so please bare with me

docs1.pdf

Edited July 29, 2016 by dx100uk
multiple pdfs merged to one small file - dx

[ericsbrother]

Well, the sign is rather confusing and it says different things for different places.

 

 

parking on the road is prohibited so they cant ask for money for breach of contract as you cant agree to break the terms at the outset.

 

Also you havent included the Notice to keeper that VCS should have sent you 1 month after slapping their invisible ticket on your car.

 

 

If they were relying on photographic evidence they should have provided this with a NTK within a fortnight of the event

so did you get letters in either of these time frames that mentioned keeper liability under the PoFA.

 

 

These are probably the ones you binned but their wording and timing are crucial to their claim so we cant rubbish them as usual because VCS rarely send them out in time and so they dont even pretend to follow the law.

 

So, how to respond to BW?

 

 

best say that

1/ there is no keeper liability as VCS have failed to follow the protocols of the POFA to create one and

2/ that no contract was offered by their signage so there has been no breach to create a cause for action.

 

 

Please tell your client that any resultant claim will be defended and a full costs recovery order requested as the claim is malicious.

 

If nothing else it will crate a paper trail and show that VCS are being unreasonable in their action if they do go ahead.

 

the houses probably have access rights created by continued use anyway and that cannot be undone by VCS, the landowner, the council or even a county court.

 

 

This is called an easement and you could mention this if the houses have had a back gate there for more than 8 years

[dx100uk]

thread and attachments tidied

 

 

dx

[gaznets]

Thank you for the advice,

 

 

I can't remember ever seeing any kind of photographic evidence,

I'm also not even sure what time this parking violation supposedly happened,

I'm almost positive it was more than 14 days though.

 

My sister has also received one of these claims from bw legal for the same place

but the land owners name is completely different,

mine was Leicester davenports and sons

 

 

hers has been put down as infotec,

[dx100uk]

might be an idea to start a new thread?

[ericsbrother]

photograph the site, including the demarcation of the spaces and the entry to the back of the houses if they are via this land.

 

Your sister can use the same wording to respnd to BW but you must start doing a bit of groundwork yourself and also post up the original NTK's .

 

They are probably defective and it would be nice to be able to say so to BW as that would mean that if they do start a cort claim you have grounds to make a complaint about them (we will cross that bridge when we come to it) to the courts and the SRA

[gaznets]

unfortunately we don't have the NTK as we followed the ignore process (which we now know was wrong), I

 

 

only kept my paperwork when it started mentioning solicitors and court action.

 

 

its a bit strange how they think that blocking access to the back of homes with their vans is acceptable

but parking a car there warrants a ticket,

 

 

maybe i should start ticketing the vans myself,

I will take pictures later on and post tomorrow.

 

 

many thanks

[ericsbrother]

the parking co blocks the access to the back of the homes?

 

 

There is a simple cure for that,

park in front of them to stop them moving

and when they try and throw their weight around

tell them that they are the ones blocking your right of way

and they will need to sign an undertaking not to do so again.

 

 

If the vans belong to one of the companies who have the factories

then that is nothing to do with the bandits hired to lurk around ticketing people.

 

 

It may be that you will need to spend a bit of time regarding the legalities of the matter

- ie is there an easement

 

 

how long has the access been there,

when were the houses built,

what is shown on the deeds as far as access, gate, rights of way etc.

 

 

You could have a very good case for claiming lots of money from these bandits

but more likely the threat of doing so could cause them to do a runner and avoid the costs issue.

[gaznets]

the houses are early 1900s, and I know that the access has been there for at least 33years as that's how long my parents have lived there for. I've attached pictures of the area as you requested, showing the whole car park and the access routes to the garages and driveways of the houses. hope this helps

parking overview 1.pdf

view position 1.pdf

view position 2.pdf

view position 3.pdf

view position 4.pdf

[ericsbrother]

OK, Photo 3 is the killer for this.

[gaznets]

on picture 3 if I moved the camera slightly to the left of the wall there's another driveway, then it leads to the individual garages.

[ericsbrother]

If you are feeling particularly nasty you can get an injunction against them for interfering with the easement, trespass and harassment.

 

 

It will cost you a good few quid but they will have to pay all of your costs and possibly damages as well.

 

Letting BW know there is an easment and their client is running the risk of action being taken against them if they do not desist in their foolish addventure should be enough.

[gaznets]

thanks for the quick responses.

 

 

in what way are they interfering with the easement/ trespassing (so I can explain it to my sister)

 

 

as much as id like to screw them out of some money I cant be doing with the hassle

and would much rather get these clowns off my back.

 

 

would your statement below be enough of a response?

(im not very good at wording myself)

 

 

*There is an easement and your client is running the risk of action being taken against them if they do not desist in their foolish adventure*

 

 

thanks again

[ericsbrother]

It will cost you about £8k to take them to court for this

but you get the money back and they risk being sent to prison if they then continue their actions.

 

Wording

- It is denied that your client has a claim against me.

There is an easment over this land that allows unfettered access and your client, if they continue their actions that interfere with the rights of the landowners, occupiers and visitors to xx nameofstreet run the risk of having an injunction applied for to prevent further trespass or harassment against the persons benefitting the said easement. This is the last response I shall give

[gaznets]

in that case Ive got a feeling they may back track quite quickly when this is pointed out to them. many thanks again

[ericsbrother]

More than one case has gone to court and the parking co has had a new hole ripped for them, read Davey v UKPC.

 

 

He got awarded £8k damages and all of his costs so the bill was probably somewhere around £13-16k in his case.

 

 

I do know of another trespass case where an injunction was slapped on the company and they were landed with a bill of £8k+ legal fees.

 

 

As the land belonged to a relative of mine I wont identify the parties

 

 

but the offending company packed their bags sharpish to say the least

 

 

(relative owned land that parking co claimed rights over as they had a contract with the landowner next door.

Relative also got injunction aginst that landowner for trespassing over his land to access theirs when there was no easement,

just an informal private agreement.

The parking co got arsey about the access

and they ended up out of pocket

and a threat of imprisonment hanging over them and their landlord)