Pra group Claim form - old Mbna Credit card help

[metalman]

hi sham the court sent notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track questionaire saying must be completed and returned by 16th sept and serve copies on all other parties.

 

No court date Pra as i uploaded earlier say they invite me to withdraw my defence, presumably as they believe the supplied docs are sufficient.

 

Just need to know if i've got a leg to stand on really, if i don't return these forms by the 16th it says the court could make judgement regardless.

 

cheers mm

[shamrocker]

Just fill in and return the forms.

Send a copy to the court and another to PRA's solicitors.

There's no harm in proceeding at this stage,

whether you've got a leg to stand on or not.

 

Aside from that,

your case would appear weak to me, but if you just go along with it anyway,

my personal view is that the claimant will know that progressing as far as a court hearing involves costs to them that they'll unlikely recoup.

 

 

On that point alone, it would make settling out of court a viable option for them.

...and you'll repay less than the amount being claimed.

 

 

In my experience, their usual approach is to send you a Without Prejudice F&F offer a few weeks before disclosure is due

- the offer usually in line with the account balance they bought from the original creditor.

 

 

My feeling on this is that they know you can challenge the amount of statutory interest they've added anyway, and they'll also have to work for their judgement, so it would be a good commercial decision to get the account balance without having to work for it.

 

 

Therefore, you can counter-offer for an even lower amount that should take account of the costs they'd incur in pursuing the claim, plus the fact there is probably some penalty charges that you can add into the mix.

If you can afford to pay in one hit, great...if not, propose a Tomlin Order for affordable monthly payments and you'll avoid the CCJ.

 

Hope the above makes sense. That's how I would personally play it.

[metalman]

Hi sham thanks so much I was feeling a bit lost but that sounds like a good plan

Much appreciated

Mm

[dx100uk]

don't you dare give in

lets see how strong they think their case is by if and how much they offer as an F&F.

 

 

whats the tiny jpg in post 99

the T&C's we've seen before?

[shamrocker]

lets see how strong they think their case is by if and how much they offer as an F&F.

 

That's pretty much what I've said above, DX. They will offer a F&F anyway, as it makes commercial sense. Go to court and they'll win with a recon agreement - DN has already been supplied, so the scope for them to trip up from here in is quite small in my view.

[dx100uk]

sorry sham internet is in and out like a yo-yo

my first line was great post sham..

 

 

dx

[mercyblue]

Sham's post 102 is realistic and gives a very probable scenario. It's really damage limitation now imho.

[metalman]

hi dx i'm in till the end mate just needed a bit reassurance from sham on how things are likely to pan out

Post 99 yes they just resent the same forms,tbh although the text is tiny i could read it with a magnifying glass (every home should have one) just wondered if it was relevant it was so tiny!

 

I'm going to fill the forms today declining it being referred to the small claims mediation service

One thing do i tick yes that i agree small claims track is appropriate for this case as its for under £10k?

Other than that i'm good to go

Cheers mm

[martin2006]

Always agree to mediation, it could be your opprtunity to ask for a Tomlin order if its all looking a bit bleak and avoiding a CCJ altogether

[dx100uk]

Mediation is a must!

[AndyOrch]

And yes to Small Claims Track and name your local County Court

[metalman]

Thanks guys done it as advised,not too thrilled that pra will now get my mobile number but doesn't mean i have to answer!

 

or signature for that matter!!

 

or can i touch out my signature email and phone number on their copy?

 

cheers mm

[metalman]

One last thing do i put myself as a witness or just put 0?

 

sorry for being a pain but i'll be posting them tomorrow

 

cheers mm

[martin2006]

1witness, just you

[dx100uk]

yes you can redact whatever you like from the claimants copy

[metalman]

Cheers dx, martin

 

 

1witness, just you

[jackreacher]

Blimey i jumped off this thread as others seemed to be better able to take care of you //

 

regarding the default notice

can you check clause 1 and 8 actually refer to what they say are there.

 

 

Also as it stands the DN is defective as it must come with another sheet of paper

namely A fact Sheet s88 (4a) of the CCA this is not provided in their evidence.

 

You need to tell the judge you distinctly remember the DN notice coming (perhaps you have a copy that matches theirs!)

made a copy and there was no s88(4A) notice included..

.consequently you put the claimant to strict proof that it was.

 

heres a case that won on this very point

 

Was the default notice valid?

Under section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act

a default notice must be served before any termination or demand for earlier payment.

 

 

Section 88 of the Act provides that a default notice must be in the prescribed form.

 

 

The Claimant served a default notice by post of 12th October 2012.

 

 

The Defendant says that the notice was defective because it gave the wrong figure for the amount due and no OFT fact sheet was included.

 

 

The Claimant explains that the difference is the amount by which the Defendant’s credit limit had been exceeded and that error was detrimental to the Claimant rather than to the Defendant.

 

 

It was the Claimant’s case that the OFT fact sheet would have been included with the default notice

and in the event that it was not there was a clear statement at the end of the notice

that the Defendant should contact the Claimant so that the sheet could be sent. T

 

 

he Defendant denied that the OFT fact sheet was sent with the default notice,

stated that she did not request the sheet and candidly admitted that she might not have read the whole letter.

 

 

No evidence was adduced before me actively saying the fact sheet had been enclosed.

The Claimant invited me to conclude that the defects in the default notice were de minimis but I do not agree.

 

 

The whole point of a default notice is that the debtor should know exactly what is owed

and it is irrelevant that any defect would be to the detriment of the creditor.

 

 

I accept the evidence of the Defendant that no OFT fact sheet was enclosed

and words inviting her to send for the missing sheet are not sufficient to remedy the defect of its absence.

 

It is unfortunately the case that many debtors in the position of the Defendant in this case do not read to the end of letters

thus the importance of documents being enclosed.

[jackreacher]

human glitch..lol!

[jackreacher]

The above is only if you get forced to court..

[metalman]

Very interesting jack and something to consider if court happens,i'll have a look at the default notice and what they've sent again.

 

What's happening now is i've got a provisional date for the mediation phone call - which i have to confirm by calling back (they're constantly engaged but i'll get thru by monday deadline i'm sure)

 

PRA sent a transaction log,system comments and customer information notes and once again invite me to withdraw my defence and fill an expenses sheet.

 

I'm now looking for advice re mediation.

Do PRA start off wanting full amount,do i offer 10% then it's back and forth,basically what would be a good result?

I've read up on tomlin orders that were mentioned,to avoid the ccj which sounds appealing,do i bring them up to the mediator?

 

I guess if PRA think they've got enough to win they might play hardball but tbh i'm not going to be bullied and the more i read about bankruptcy why not use any spare cash to do that then pay them and the rest off for god knows how long!?

I know it's drastic but there's a letter just come from 1st credit too and i'm worried they'll all just do the same (over £22k of old debts that aren't statute barred)

 

Again any advice or experience of mediation is welcomed

 

Thanks mm

[jackreacher]

Very interesting jack and something to consider if court happens,i'll have a look at the default notice and what they've sent again.

 

What's happening now is i've got a provisional date for the mediation phone call - which i have to confirm by calling back (they're constantly engaged but i'll get thru by monday deadline i'm sure)

 

PRA sent a transaction log,system comments and customer information notes and once again invite me to withdraw my defence and fill an expenses sheet.

 

I'm now looking for advice re mediation.

Do PRA start off wanting full amount,do i offer 10% then it's back and forth,basically what would be a good result?

I've read up on tomlin orders that were mentioned,to avoid the ccj which sounds appealing,do i bring them up to the mediator?

 

I guess if PRA think they've got enough to win they might play hardball but tbh i'm not going to be bullied and the more i read about bankruptcy why not use any spare cash to do that then pay them and the rest off for god knows how long!?

I know it's drastic but there's a letter just come from 1st credit too and i'm worried they'll all just do the same (over £22k of old debts that aren't statute barred)

 

Again any advice or experience of mediation is welcomed

 

Thanks mm

 

Hi Metalman..unfortunately I have no experience in mediation (I am too stubborn) looks like you have your hands full of old debts, are they all pre April 2007?

 

Theres not a lot to gain by just having 1 CCJ instead of 2.

 

if non are statute barred or unlikely to be by court, then there are a few ways to play it and better people to advise you. Shamrocker advocates settling if poss. PM him but get him to post as I am interested as to how things are played now.

[metalman]

Yes mate they're all 2012 onwards iirc

I'm curious as to how mediation plays out but guess I don't know till the call happens, is there ways to prepare,things to hit back with hopefully someone has been through it and can advise

I'll keep you updated

 

Thanks mm

[jackreacher]

The agreements were signed after 2012 or you paid until then?

[metalman]

I'll have to check tomorrow after work for exact dates but I had difficulty end of 2011 and stopped paying around then

So agreements are before then

[shamrocker]

Hi JR & Metalman

 

Yeah, I would favour an early settlement in some instances.

I just don't see the point going through the stress and committing the time seeing the claim all the way when there's a good chance a DJ will not back you on a technicality, when you can use the threat of going all the way as leverage to compromise with the claimant.

 

 

Most of aren't confident enough to convincingly argue something like the missing OFT factsheet to the degree where a DJ will be swayed - although I do get your point and think it's a valid one. However, can this be remedied, or is it fatal if the DJ sides with you.

 

my approach is to use the prospect of incurring legal costs during the process of going all the way to court to try to squeeze the claimant into a commercially viable settlement.

 

 

This is before you even show your hand, so there is also that element of doubt there too

- they don't know how good you are, and will know there's always the prospect of losing,

so accepting a reasonable settlement might prove tempting.

 

 

I wouldn't go in at 10% though, as they will deem you to just be a chancer.

I would personally knock any statutory interest off that they've added, plus an estimate of any default charges that may have been incurred while the account was live, then another chunk of 25-30% off to account for legal fees, general hassle and the prospect of losing.

 

 

Offer them that on a Tomlin Order that suits your financial circumstances....small monthly repayments over the longest term you can squeeze.

 

It's each to their own though.

PRA seem to take on debts that are easier to chase through the courts and are less speculative, hence I'd apply some reality.

If it were a Lowell claim though, I'd probably go all the way...as their claims are usually very dodgy and full of holes.

 

Sham