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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Caught shoplifting in Boots, police not called - HELP!


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It also made me wonder why, if they'd known I was stealing for months and knew I was a regular in the store and recognised me each time I was in there, why did they never just apprehend me once I was in there? If they had so much evidence of me taking previous items then I don't understand why they still had to wait to actually catch me in the act, if indeed that CCTV evidence was sufficient to prove my guilt. Essentially they knew I was stealing but allowed me to continue doing so until they could actually catch me with something.

 

That is making me wonder if the police don't rely on store CCTV alone so they knew that previous footage wouldn't mean much at all and that they still had physically catch me.

 

The LP guy said, during our conversation outside, that he doesn't know whether RLP will 'fine' me (his words!) for all of the incidents they know about or just this one. I'll wait and see what their letters say anyway!

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I completely missed the bit about talking outside the store That should have been the clue I should have spotted. ..

 

 

We all miss things in plain sight. It is one of those things, this is why I re-read a thread several times to take it all in.

 

 

Since the LPO had the chance to escalate this several times, even with the PCSO's walking past, this can also help the OP in as much as this was prima facia evidence something untoward is/was going on. If the OP can remember the date and time then this will help 'IF' the LPO tries to take anymore advantage of this poster... It's all in the detail....

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The actions of this LPO shows something is amiss, TBH I would find a new shop and be much more honest, it pays to be good.

 

 

No matter how many letters arrive just ignore them, even when RLP sent the alleged debt to a debt collector IGNORE them all...

 

 

Deep breath time now and I bet you are glad you found CAG ?

If I have been of any help, please click on my star and leave a note to let me know, thank you.

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We all miss things in plain sight. It is one of those things, this is why I re-read a thread several times to take it all in.

 

 

Since the LPO had the chance to escalate this several times, even with the PCSO's walking past, this can also help the OP in as much as this was prima facia evidence something untoward is/was going on. If the OP can remember the date and time then this will help 'IF' the LPO tries to take anymore advantage of this poster... It's all in the detail....

 

I remember the exact time and date of when we were outside talking, as I had to check the time for my next train. The discussion we were having would have been made full view of the cameras outside the store and it went on for easily 15 minutes, possibly longer. There will be footage of me making a call on my phone to ask my gran to lend me some money, and footage of the LP guy making a call on his phone at the same time. Looking back, it seemed a very strange thing to take place immediately after catching someone shoplifting, and I'm sure questions would be asked about why he was talking to me for so long. He also made comments about how he used to be in debt but not anymore as he's in a very good job now and he makes plenty of money. It all seems so out of place, now I think back on it. And do these guys actually earn that much anyway? I'm wondering if he actually exploits a fair few people and has got himself a nice little earner on the side there!

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The actions of this LPO shows something is amiss, TBH I would find a new shop and be much more honest, it pays to be good.

 

No matter how many letters arrive just ignore them, even when RLP sent the alleged debt to a debt collector IGNORE them all...

 

Deep breath time now and I bet you are glad you found CAG ?

 

I really am, everyone has spoken so much sense and not judged me at all. I never expected that, it's been brilliant to find a place with people who evidently have a lot of good advice to give.

 

 

I'll be recommending it to anyone who's got any sort of legal issue, or any issue really, in the future! Other forums tend to have the odd one who'll make judgmental comments but not had that on here at all.

 

I didn't find anything at all online about people who've been taken in by the police after initially being released so whilst it'll be a niggle with me for a while

(and that's part of my punishment for doing this in the first place, I guess!),

 

 

I'll just keep as calm as I can and try to speak common sense to myself.

If it's never been done before (as far as I've been able to find out) then it's unlikely to happen with me. It's just hard not to think of myself as Most Wanted right now!

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Although you have done what you have done, you have been caught, been released, then chatted to in an inappropriate manner, you have a moral duty to inform the branch manager that this conversation has taken place.

 

 

You can inform them that you felt that a financial arrangement could have been made without the knowledge of RLP. Has the LPO done this in the past and got away with it? We can only guess. The nice thing about this is you can do this anonymously via a letter to the branch manager. It costs nothing to do this but could catch a rogue LPO that takes financial advantage for their own needs.

 

 

How were you going to pay his 'fine' you haven't mentioned this yet?

 

 

This is up to you but think about that poor old lady or a vulnerable adult that may have fallen for this behaviour if indeed it has happened

 

 

BUT

 

 

Always a but, is it worth it? its your choice alone what you do. As far as earning mega bucks that's a no unless they work at Harrods...

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Please don't take the next sentence to heart but the word I will use in NOT derogatory but meant for advice purposes only ok?!!

 

 

'Only a fool will not take great advice', then they have themselves to blame for not taking it, advice is free and should be considered on all levels.

 

 

A criminal record will see someone not being able to work with vulnerable people, this includes work as a carer and so on, it can also stop you from visiting some countries,

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I think by the third party calling Boots may have alerted them to something going on and they may investigate but as with most security staff, they are subcontracted to Boots so any allegations would be passed on to them.

Boots can instigate civil action (I doubt they will) however, they can only claim a provable loss. Any evidence missing from the CCTV will be discounted.

 

I suspect Boots will just bury this. This could be a PR nightmare for them and the security company.

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Although you have done what you have done, you have been caught, been released, then chatted to in an inappropriate manner, you have a moral duty to inform the branch manager that this conversation has taken place.

 

You can inform them that you felt that a financial arrangement could have been made without the knowledge of RLP. Has the LPO done this in the past and got away with it? We can only guess. The nice thing about this is you can do this anonymously via a letter to the branch manager. It costs nothing to do this but could catch a rogue LPO that takes financial advantage for their own needs.

 

How were you going to pay his 'fine' you haven't mentioned this yet?

 

This is up to you but think about that poor old lady or a vulnerable adult that may have fallen for this behaviour if indeed it has happened

 

BUT

 

Always a but, is it worth it? its your choice alone what you do. As far as earning mega bucks that's a no unless they work at Harrods...

 

You're right and this is something I will do.

I will detail the time of the discussion outside also so they can see how long it went on for since there was logically no reason for that discussion ever to have taken place.

 

I suspect that RLP would still have written to me anyway even if I had paid this amount to the LP guy.

 

 

I'm assuming it's his job to catch thieves but then ultimately up to Boots to pass the information on to either RLP and / or the police, however they're choosing to deal with it.

 

 

I don't think this guy was looking to do me any favours by keeping RLP out of it (I'm not even sure he could do that anyway).

 

 

The impression he very much gave me at the time was that 'he had the power' to decide the outcome of this but having had time to think about that,

I can't imagine that right.

 

 

Surely it's up to the store itself on the subsequent course of action?

The LP guy obviously lives in the area and knows people.

If these cases were all decided solely by the security people rather than the store itself then technically he could let off friends and family if they were seen stealing in the store, and there could be a conflict of interest issue there.

 

And I have taken no offence to any advice given, I will absolutely be taking all of the very good advice I've had from the guys here. I can guarantee I'll never need advice on here (about shoplifting anyway) ever again!

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I agree with that SF, but, if something untoward is happening then I would do the right thing and have done so in the past. Different situation in my case but the result was the same an investigation that was proved staff member dismissed.

 

 

I don't think there is much more to add to this thread unless the OP gets more agro from the LPO then they can update their thread?

 

 

Good luck to the OP if you need further advice then please pop back in and update your thread... Have a great weekend

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I definitely will be informing them of everything that happened. I'm sure they'll take an interest in why such a lengthy conversation was needed after the event, for a start. This could help to back up the subsequent phone call, which I unfortunately have no proof of other than the record of a call from a withheld number yesterday.

 

Anyhow, I'll give them the information and how they choose to deal with it is up to them as I doubt I'll ever find out. The guy at HO did confirm the security staff are sub-contractors also.

 

I'll update the thread if I get any further hassle or if I need advice about the letters from RLP.

 

Just wanted to take the opportunity again to thank everyone for their help, advice and support. It is very much appreciated!

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I think i would have marked the money with uv pen

then handed it over

then called the police myself.

 

 

nail the scroat

trouble is how many times has he done this to others?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I think i would have marked the money with uv pen

then handed it over

then called the police myself.

 

 

nail the scroat

trouble is how many times has he done this to others?

 

My guess would be a few times, considering the confidence he had during the call and how he was able to sound like he was speaking to his manager. There was no background noise at the time either, I bet he was just calling me from his mobile at home!

 

What a horrible person, no wonder he was so nice to me. He saw something in it for himself right from the start. I can only hope his position is maybe now questioned from the information they already have, and this will be followed up with a letter detailing his behaviour.

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