Halifax, Shoosmith - Mortgage Shortfall debt

[Loubylou70]

Hello,

I hope someone is kind enough to help.

I won't go into names or numbers as I know many banks and their Lawyers/ Debt collectors are avid readers of such forums.

 

I have a mortgage shortfall debt after a repo.

 

The banks Solicitors wrote to me and requested a repayment of the shortfall.

 

This has been going on now for a approx 2 years.

 

I made a few offers of a full and final which they declined.

 

They then countered my offer on a Without Prejuduce basis but I could not afford to pay the sum requested at the time.

 

I am now in a position to borrow the countered sum but as the date has lapsed they are now declining my offer.

 

I know this is just a game they are playing and I am sure they will be willing to play this forever.

What I would like to know is can I apply to the Court regarding this matter for a Judge to decide that this should be settled or do I just have to play games for the rest of my life with them.

 

 

I am doing everything I can and offering to pay this sum is a big commitment for me

but will be worth it to get rid of this .

 

 

I am hoping a Judge would see how I am trying to work with them

and maybe help end this matter once and for all.

 

The Solicitor has told me they won't take me to Court as it would cost to much money as there is no guarantee they they will be able to get the money,

also they won't bankrupt me as I have no assets.

 

 

I guess they are worried I go on and win the lottery

 

 

Any advice will be appreciated.

 

 

Thank you

[citizenB]

Have you requested a breakdown of the amount of shortfall ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387500-Mortgage-shortfalls-Request-Breakdown-of-balance-owed-**Correct-as-at-October-2013*

 

Below is a letter that you can use for a F&F settlement of the amount owed.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387498-Mortgage-shortfalls-Full-and-final-settlement-letter-**Correct-as-at-October-2013*

 

You could point out that they have already suggested that they would accept the sum you are now offering. It is unreasonable that they should now refuse.

 

Perhaps reconfirm that you have no assets and are not in a position to pay more that you believe they are treating you unfairly and causing you unnecessary stress.

 

Do you know if there were any charges that you might be able to reclaim ? Penalty/default fees ? Was there any type of Payment Protection Insurance on the original loan that might have been mis sold ?

 

Would you like to private message me the name of the lender ? I could then speak with others on the site team who might know how best to approach them ?

[Ell-enn]

If they won't take you to court and won't bankrupt you either, I'd be inclined to leave them to stew for a while, I bet they come back to you with the original offer.

 

How much (percentage) of a discount did they offer you? Also, have you had a breakdown of how the shortfall has been calculated ?

[martin2006]

Very dangerous for a sol to say they categorically wont take you to court or apply for bankruptcy, they will do what is necessary to get their money back so i wouldn't presume anything

As for a judge ruling on a settlement, it wouldnt get anywhere near a court so your flogging a dead one there.

If you genuinely want to pay it then put a F&F letter in again reiterating your offer.

It may be worth looking into how they got to the shortfall amount, coukd be littered with reclaimable charges, fees etc

A SAR may reveal the details

[Loubylou70]

I have checked and the charges are very minimal, can't be bothered to argue these at present….just want the shortfall tied up.

[Loubylou70]

If they won't take you to court and won't bankrupt you either, I'd be inclined to leave them to stew for a while, I bet they come back to you with the original offer.

 

How much (percentage) of a discount did they offer you? Also, have you had a breakdown of how the shortfall has been calculated ?

 

 

I was going to let them stew but I want to strike while the iron is hot and I can borrow the funds.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Loubylou70

[Loubylou70]

If they won't take you to court and won't bankrupt you either, I'd be inclined to leave them to stew for a while, I bet they come back to you with the original offer.

 

How much (percentage) of a discount did they offer you? Also, have you had a breakdown of how the shortfall has been calculated ?

 

I have DM you with the details of the % discount

[dx100uk]

they wont goto court

 

 

urm... makes me think they are cash cowing you..

 

 

tell us the full story of the repo and shortfall with dates

[Loubylou70]

I know they are, I know how they work.

They want to tie me up for the rest of my life so they can keep coming back to me for more money but it aint going to happen.

 

I can't discuss details on here as I know that many firms check these forums and if they put 2 and 2 together.

[dx100uk]

yes you can everyone else does to no detriment

name names please

 

 

so how long after the repo did the fleecers get to you?

 

 

dx

[Loubylou70]

oh it was a few months after the repo. They sold the property for £35,000 less than what I was offered by someone.

 

All i will say the company was part of HBOS group

[martin2006]

In your f&f you will need to stipulate the following:

 

It is a full and final settlement, neither the company nor any 3rd party can make claim to any leftover balance. Upon receipt of the final payment, all credit files will be updated to satisfied and the account will be closed with zero balance owing.

Once confirmed in writng from them that they accept you will issue the funds.

[unclebulgaria67]

I think you should send an SAR to the mortgage company to get hold of all paperwork regarding the repossession and sale. See what you can find out that might be helpful . Did they obtain the maximum sale value that was available at the time ?

[dx100uk]

stop playing stupid secret squirrel

it helps no-one

 

who was the mortgage with

who are you paying now.

 

when we know those bits of info

we will know what route to take.

 

the info is important and could save you money

[Loubylou70]

Mortgage was with Halifax, Shoosmith are dealing with it, I have not paid a penny to them or signed a deed of acknowledgement.

 

martin2006 said:

In your f&f you will need to stipulate the following:

 

It is a full and final settlement, neither the company nor any 3rd party can make claim to any leftover balance. Upon receipt of the final payment, all credit files will be updated to satisfied and the account will be closed with zero balance owing.

Once confirmed in writng from them that they accept you will issue the funds.

 

Thank you for this but I need to get an agreement first.

 

Another point I found interesting was that the solicitors said to me that their client no longer counter offers on offers to settle from clients because quote'

 

 

they don't want to force the client to borrow money or get into debt and not be able to afford it in order to settle the debt'

 

 

this is rubbish.. I mean what are they doing when sending you letters asking you to make and offer, you then make one you can afford and they reject it.

 

 

They also stated that the client would rather leave it

so you don't pay anything and then revisit the case further down the line.

[unclebulgaria67]

Halifax/Shoosmiths are still chasing a mortgage shortfall debt about 18 years after the date it was incurred on another case on CAG. There were allegedly payments made on the account to a DCA, but evidence could not be provided.

 

If you were ever pressured into making small payments by a threat of a court claim, it will be administered by a DCA and they will milk it for years, periodically asking for updates on your financial situation. If you don't make any payments, you will get letters from Shoosmiths periodically and they will try to enforce the debt before it becomes statute barred after 12 years. To comply with CML requirements the debt will be chased regularly, so they don't fall foul with the CML guidelines about not enforcing a debt not paid or chased for 6 years.

 

If there are any issues with the repossession and amount of this shortfall debt, it is best to send any SAR to Halifax ASAP, rather than wait years. If you left it for years, all of the paperwork will be sent to offsite storage and you might struggle to get all of their documents. You might be able to challenge Halifax and negotiate a reduced F&F to get shot of this debt. If Halifax are not letting you move on by allowing you to relieve yourself of this debt, then get further advice about your options.

[Loubylou70]

Thank you for your advice.

I have no intention of making any payment without an agreed in writing full and final amount,

once this is done I will pay as agreed.

 

I feel with this group of companies that everything falls upon deaf ears

and they do not like producing paperwork when requested.

 

I do have a problem with what the ban sold the property for

as they took it to auction when I had had an offer of £35,000 more 6 months prior

but they refused to let me sell as it was a negative equity situation.

 

However, if I raise this point with them they take it as a complaint

and refer to the client,

in turn the client always never states that there was any wrong doing...

.I just cannot win.

 

My other option is bankruptcy which having no job, money or assets will be the best option if they don't accept my offer.

[citizenB]

I think perhaps it would be worth pointing out that you had attempted to sell the property yourself and had received an offer that was £35,000 more than they eventually sold it at auction.

 

Of course there was wrong doing on their part and I wonder if it might actually be worth making a formal complaint - by passing the solicitors and going direct to the original lender.

[Loubylou70]

This bank are a law into themselves

I know I won't get anywhere with them or I would do.

I don't care about their wasted time but I do about mine.

 

At the time I was asked to submit the offer in writing to the negative equity team which I did,

I was then told for commercial reasons they could not accept the offer,

a few months later they sell for less than I could have sold for.

[citizenB]

Then it might be worth a complaint to the Ombudsman !

[unclebulgaria67]

This bank are a law into themselves I know I won't get anywhere with them or I would do. I don't care about their wasted time but I do about mine. At the time I was asked to submit the offer in writing to the negative equity team which I did, I was then told for commercial reasons they could not accept the offer, a few months later they sell for less than I could have sold for.

 

You know the reason they do this. Debt to a Bank is an asset. If they let you sell it for more, they would have a smaller asset. So they wait 6 months going through their process and sell it at auction, where at no surprise to them it sells for less.

 

If you have evidence of the higher offer, i would suggest that you start a formal complaint with Halifax. But before you start the complaint, get tbe SAR off to them, so you have the paperwork. Do your homework before you submit your complaint. There are regulatory requirements mortgage lenders have to follow when selling repossessed properties.

[dx100uk]

who are shoesmiths stated clients on their letters please

[Loubylou70]

who are shoesmiths stated clients on their letters please

 

all letters state:

 

Our Client: Bank of Scotland PLC (Halifax Division)

 

Thank you

[Loubylou70]

I think you should send an SAR to the mortgage company to get hold of all paperwork regarding the repossession and sale. See what you can find out that might be helpful . Did they obtain the maximum sale value that was available at the time ?

 

Hello, I am going to do this today.

[unclebulgaria67]

who are shoesmiths stated clients on their letters please

 

dx, what seems to happen with mortgage shortfall debts is that they are not sold at any stage. Many lenders use Shoosmiths to do the chasing and if at any stage small regular repayments are offered these are handled by the DCA DLC. There seems to be set process by Lloyds group companies and i think Barclays.

 

Shoosmiths approach now appears to be to send an annual batch of chasers, so the lender complies with the CML guidelines on shortfalls. They then have the 12 years limitations period in which they hope the debtors position has changed to make it worth pursuing them. If they manage to get any payments, it just extends the enforceable period.

 

It is a bit of a game. At one time an F&F of about 10% would clear the debt, but now they are willing to let the debt be chased over a long period.