The European Union.....In or Out?

[tobyjugg2]

What is happening?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/britain-votes-to-leave-the-eu-what-happens-now-that-brexit-is-a/

 

"Leaders do not want to be drawn into months and years of haggling over Britain’s status: “Out is out,” Jean-Claude Juncker said on Wednesday"

 

"By contrast, the official Out campaign has said there is no need to trigger Article 50 until informal negotiations have taken place – potentially lasting years."

 

What happened to the 'lets get out NOW' rhetoric

 

For Farages Sake - they got what they wanted, now they are waffling.

Now we really are doomed

 

I wonder how many out or not voted are praying that the government will find some way to stop it. - so they can get back to safely whinging.

[Peterbard]

I wonder, just wonder

 

The EU want us to invoke article 50 as soon as possible yet camoron is saying it will be for the next PM to invoke. Is there a hidden agenda?

 

Ok I know that all politicians have hidden agendas but ...what happens if a general election is called and a party wins with a manifesto that says it wants to renegotiate EU membership

 

just a random thought, one of the many possibilities

 

There is also the matter of stare decisis, as you know many decision have been made on consumer issues, in the European court and have had precedence due to their standing, t data protection for instance google etc. Will this continue to be the case or will ther be an opportunity for new cases to be brought to establish UK precedent.

[fletch70]

I was watching something on BBC today and they were saying that for 40 years , EU law and directives have been enacted into just about every aspect of UK law. As such, the only way to change it is to go through every piece of legislation and either repeal/replace/amend it. This will take years

[fletch70]

Toby

 

I listened to the speeches of some of the eurocrats , some of whom I am not particularly fond of but hey ho. From my understanding, until we actually trigger article 50 we are still signed up members of the EU and bound by its rights and obligations. Of course we could just stick two fingers up at the EU and say that we are leaving however that would not be a good idea for our future in international relations.

 

So assuming it is not triggered until we invoke article 50 what would happen if for some reason there was a mandate not to trigger it. It will take some time of course for the volatility of the markets to settle but from the few people I personally know who voted out they are already beginning to regret their decision especially since there have been U turns on the promises made such as the extra money for the NHS

 

It doesn't help that there is the doomsday scenarios of Trump and Boris , if that happens in June 2018 I am out of here

[unclebulgaria67]

I was watching something on BBC today and they were saying that for 40 years , EU law and directives have been enacted into just about every aspect of UK law. As such, the only way to change it is to go through every piece of legislation and either repeal/replace/amend it. This will take years

 

Yes it will take up a lot of time in parliament and also the various trade deals will also take years to gain agreement.

 

The 2 years break clause won't be triggered before the Tories have appointed a new leader. Some Tory Brexiters want to try to renegotiate with the EU before they start the exit process. If they don't engineer an early election, the UK could still be in the EU at the next due election in May 2020. Then what happens if the election is won by a pro EU party or coalition of parties.

[tobyjugg2]

We will even need a new real Ministry for Trade with all the costs and bureaucracy that entails

https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers/minister-of-state-for-trade-and-investment

 

The politicians all knew what was and wasn't on the table.

BSing the public that there was some chance otherwise is despicable.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/10/no-single-market-access-for-uk-after-brexit-wolfgang-schauble-says

 

The real politicians all said that the EU would HAVE to impose strict and harsh measures to prevent others seeking special deals. Common sense really

[unclebulgaria67]

Farage as a previous city trader should know that the City of London is host to a huge number of traders who deal with things related to Euro and European markets. Also many companies choose to base themselves in London as their base within the EU. There could be tens of thousands of lost jobs and billions of pounds of lost income.

 

If UK pensioners end up with reduced value of pensions and worse healthcare, Farage should apologise to them.

[fletch70]

Yes it will take up a lot of time in parliament and also the various trade deals will also take years to gain agreement.

 

The 2 years break clause won't be triggered before the Tories have appointed a new leader. Some Tory Brexiters want to try to renegotiate with the EU before they start the exit process. If they don't engineer an early election, the UK could still be in the EU at the next due election in May 2020. Then what happens if the election is won by a pro EU party or coalition of parties.

 

That is exactly what I was wondering, I believe the Lib Dems might make a comeback as people have now seen the how they calmed the Tories down.

 

Politically , it could be argued that I should have been pro brevet because, after all, the EU is based on liberal capitalism or my phrase of the day capitalist B******S however I do think that with the social policy introduced they have lessened the excesses of capitalism, well in their own countries but not in states that have been bailed out.

 

I can see the EU taking a hard stance on this, the politicians may not want us to leave BUT if they let us get away with changes , others will try the same trick. In saying that he wants to renegotiate our place within EU , I think Boris is either a complete fool or a total liar probably both.

[fletch70]

Farage as a previous city trader should know that the City of London is host to a huge number of traders who deal with things related to Euro and European markets. Also many companies choose to base themselves in London as their base within the EU. There could be tens of thousands of lost jobs and billions of pounds of lost income.

 

If UK pensioners end up with reduced value of pensions and worse healthcare, Farage should apologise to them.

 

 

Farage apologise, ar you having a larff.

It annoys me beyond measure how he tries to play the role of a man of the people yet he is so very far from it , he is political elite. I thought his speech was incredibly condescending this morning although I have lost a great deal of respect for the sense of the 'working person' and even more so the non working person. They blame their unemployment on EU immigration, the concept of full employment was effectively abandoned by Callaghan and ditched totally by Thatcher.

 

I truly wonder why we all bother, it seems that so very many people are just plain selfish and do not care about anyone else however much they claim to do it.

 

If we lose Scotland , Northern Ireland and the EU we are truly truly screwed, well unless your name appeared on the Panama papers

 

We must remember that while some will lose lots of savings through the market volatility , the really rich will have made an absolute fortune. If I had a £million that I had invested in $ yesterday and sold at 3am this morning I would have made £150000, several times more than many people receive in a year

[tobyjugg2]

We must remember that while some will lose lots of savings through the market volatility , the really rich will have made an absolute fortune. If I had a £million that I had invested in $ yesterday and sold at 3am this morning I would have made £150000, several times more than many people receive in a year

 

Most 'money trader' financial institutions in 'the city' were running desks through the night, betting and trading on the collapse of the £.

 

I understand that as the trading started to settle a lot was bought up in 'asia'.

 

Billions made in profit, not a penny spent. and the retail banks taking the hit (ie customers - well indirectly as banks worth less)

[tobyjugg2]

Still, whats done is done

... Unless it isnt

 

we'll see

[Guest]

Toby

 

there have been U turns on the promises made such as the extra money for the NHS

 

unsurprising. they cldnt make any promises re the so called 'savings' to be spent on the nhs (or anything else for that matter). and they knew it, it was misleading but just went with it.

the reality was out there, even on this thread, that there will be a huge cost re exit that wld take precedent. but there it is..

as you say, the votes are in. lets see what happens for the united england and wales in the term.

 

unsurprising that Cam is going. right thing to do.

 

imo.

[Guest]

Time to move to Scotland methinks!

 

?

best get up there before the wall is rebuilt (toby post), and a passport/visa is needed at border control to enter

[Guest]

...

 

It doesn't help that there is the doomsday scenarios of Trump and Boris , if that happens in June 2018 I am out of here

it looks like that the next pm will (shld) have to be pro the exit? so it seems it will be Buff, unless May enters the race (second fav apparently), even though she was 'remain'.

[paulette11]

best get up there before the wall is rebuilt (toby post), and a passport/visa is needed at border control to enter

 

Rebuilding the wall will take a while. So feel free

[Guest]

paulette11

it wont take that long if Buff gets the Poles to do it (re tobyj post)

are you really from across the pond, interested in posting on Eng/Wales issues (i wld say UK issues, but that seems no longer applicable )?

[paulette11]

Hey Ford, Am actually across for some reason. But issues concerning Eng/Wales (lol) interest me as much as it interest you.

[obiter dictum]

When put to the UK Parliament to implement Article 50 to the EU Commission, Will the required votes by passed by the UK Parliament??

 

Three Quarters of our own 650 MPs from all political parties are against Brexit

[Guest]

When put to the UK Parliament to implement Article 50 to the EU Commission, Will the required votes by passed by the UK Parliament??

 

Three Quarters of our own 650 MPs from all political parties are against Brexit

they'll have to re the democratic ref, unless they decide not to invoke it until later (if at all) (as apparently now some of the exits are saying. blimey, make yr mind up)

imo.

[snowdragon]

anyone seen this :/

 

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/britain-broken-beyond-repair-worst-125318669.html

[Guest]

have now, cheers.

 

it was weird watching it live on the beeb. the remains came in, the pound rose, then the leaves, the pound dropped, then the remain surged, the pound rose again. then it got to the point where the leaves dominated, and it was clear even before their (the news channels) predictions that it wld be leave. the pound dropped even more.

[unclebulgaria67]

According to an article in the Daily Mail, a campaign is being started for independence for London, so it can remain in the EU. That would be a bit awkward with Bank of England, Parliament etc being in London. You could imagine an independent England having to find its own capital city.

 

Could this happen ? I don't think so given that parliament would have to authorise any referendum on independence for London, unless there is a process i have not heard of.

[Guest]

apparently there is a formal petition going on for another ref?

[Peterbard]

crashed the server.

 

Petitions is down for maintenance]

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

[tobyjugg2]

anyone seen this :/

 

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/britain-broken-beyond-repair-worst-125318669.html

 

 

excellent find snowdragon.

 

Quite comprehensive but with a couple of major issues glossed over

 

Despite paying damn all tax in the UK, some of these financial institutions are a fair chunk of our financial 'bulk' in the world.

With the extra protections from EU regs going going gone

and the taxation regs of the EU hovering ready to swoop

These organisations are very likely to leave unless the Uk renegotiates protections for them first, foremost and successfully - unlikely that the EU will accept this, they will not want to be tied to that level to the UK

- although it is possible they will to avoid their own financial markets being trashed with 'the city' - they are very closely linked.

 

Secondly

No one has said how Scotland might remain in the EU, with existing arrangements,.

Seems most likely they may have to reapply as a new small nation, although the EU would very likely be on-board to quickly facilitate that to show a recovery and growth for the EU while the traitorous UK sinks further - but the terms may not be so beneficial to Scotland as the existing arrangement - but they might be - particularly given Scottish gas/oil reserves in the 'Trident Zone' which would become Scottish waters and available.

 

As already noted in these threads, Englands nuclear deterrent hits many snags if Scotland from the Trident Base and waters to just affording the nuclear cost. and these issues will be far worse if Ireland also secedes. Although that NI vote is somewhat misleading.

 

Break up of the EU

I really dont know. The Netherlands and France are probably the ones to watch.

With the UK's exit, the French/German relationship will likely become more strained.

It may astound many, but the UK and Germany had very similar outlooks, France is much more 'left wing'.

 

Break up of the EU would now be best for the UK, but would make Europe just a load of tiddlers to be eaten up by China, Russia and America in the longer (and not that much longer) term.

 

I really cant see a genuine upside to this at all. It probably wont even significantly dent the real **** of the earth - those cheating, twisting, lying financial institutions - they will just move or twist into a new shape and carry on.

 

Well folk are seeing what lying **** these politicians are already - so what will the populace do now they see it?

Sod all.