The European Union.....In or Out?

[tobyjugg2]

Austria passes controversial new asylum law

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36152927

 

despite criticism from UN

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/429c8bdeca274e74af879741942d1a2f/EU--Europe-Migrants

[unclebulgaria67]

Austria passes controversial new asylum law

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36152927

 

despite criticism from UN

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/429c8bdeca274e74af879741942d1a2f/EU--Europe-Migrants

 

Austria has always had a problem with a racist element.

[unclebulgaria67]

On the subject of the EU referendum, the economic risks appears to me to be pretty damning for Brexit case. I think it is far too risky, given the current fragile state of world finances. If you look at gold prices in the last 6 months, they give you an idea that some people with money are looking for a safe investment. There are some saying that there could be another Banking crash starting in the US, at some point this year. If people vote for Brexit they could just trigger a downward spiral in the markets and it might just be worse than the 07/08 crash. However nationalistic you are, you have to think about your families financial future and you don't put it at risk.

[Consumer dude]

Austria is planning to build a border fence which sounds a sensible idea..

[tobyjugg2]

Austria is planning to build a border fence which sounds a sensible idea..

 

Wrong place - the EU borders are at Greece

- and through Merkels great cakehole which no fence is big enough to contain.

 

:-/

 

Well at least the US has shown its true colours regarding the UK. Long past time we reciprocated and withdrew our (pretty pointless anyway) support in the middle east, especially as it was the US shafting us and France and then meddling there that is the major cause of the current issue.

[san_d]

Austria is planning to build a border fence which sounds a sensible idea..

 

Then in case they should leave the EU. Another case of wanting to keep the cake and eat it.

[Consumer dude]

We should all leave the EU, its a lovely idea to all hold hands but it don't work..

[honeybee13]

We should all leave the EU, its a lovely idea to all hold hands but it don't work..

 

Why do you say that, CD?

 

HB

[Consumer dude]

Human nature I guess, and the selfish gene..

[honeybee13]

So why should we all leave the EU as per your post #407, CD?

 

HB

[Consumer dude]

I think we can still trade with each other without having to pay millions into what feels like an elitist set up and I think the idea of open borders is a dangerous one. Just my opinion of course..

[buckthorn]

“Just another reason to get the hell out”

Brussels has threatened the UK they will take us to the European Court of Justice for

charging our continental friends ? to drive on UK roads, the government

introduced a £10 levy two years ago, to level up the playing fields’ for British truck

drivers who have to pay tolls in our partners? countries. (even though British hauliers also have to pay the charge).

 

Brussel said yesterday it unfairly penalises our continental friends, as its

introduction coincided with a reduction in Road Tax for UK lorries. it said it was prepared

to start infringement proceedings.

 

Is this not a good reason to vote too leave the EU?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk eu-threatens-legal-action-over-british-lorry-tax

[buckthorn]

They need us more than we need them.

 

The head of Germany’s business lobby group has warned

that ‘a divided Europe would sink into oblivion’ if the UK

left the EU.

 

Markus Kerber, director general of the BDI in Germany, said:

‘A Brexit would lead to a dead end. Only a unified Europe will

be successful on the global scene. A divided Europe will sink

into oblivion.’

 

Michel Guilbaud, of the MEDEF business group in France, said:

‘For France and for Europeans, a Brexit would be a major step backwards.’

The language of the various business groups reflects the dire position of the

Eurozone, of course they want the UK to remain to pick up their bills.

 

“They need us more than we need them.”

[tobyjugg2]

The head of Germany’s business lobby group has warned

that ‘a divided Europe would sink into oblivion’ if the UK

left the EU.

 

Well a divided UK after brexit would likely sink even quicker.

 

Deals with the US ?

LOL - back of the queue - and imagine if Trump does become president.

and even a market the size of the EU (10x the Uk) doesn't like the US' offered terms

 

Deals with China

They already own chunks of the UK that the Russian mafia doesn't want

 

Deals with India and the old commonwealth

The US threw a large spanner in those works decades ago.

 

UK infrastructure

Much of it, including power companies are already owned by foreign companies.

 

 

Lets face it, the UK is owned - and not by the British public.

 

Wheres my National Pride?

The Tories sold it for some Yen credit notes.

[unclebulgaria67]

Well a divided UK after brexit would likely sink even quicker.

 

Deals with the US ?

LOL - back of the queue - and imagine if Trump does become president.

and even a market the size of the EU (10x the Uk) doesn't like the US' offered terms

 

Deals with China

They already own chunks of the UK that the Russian mafia doesn't want

 

Deals with India and the old commonwealth

The US threw a large spanner in those works decades ago.

 

UK infrastructure

Much of it, including power companies are already owned by foreign companies.

 

 

Lets face it, the UK is owned - and not by the British public.

 

Wheres my National Pride?

The Tories sold it for some Yen credit notes.

 

Correct. The UK has been for sale for about the last 30 years. Since Mrs Thatcher, governments includings Blairs have considered that it is not important who owns anything. All that is important is that the UK has a free market, where competition delivers the best service/price for consumers.

 

Leaving the EU will achieve very little, as the UK will sign up to most EU rules and new regulations as being part of a market of over 500 million people. The right of free movement will still exist, as the UK would want right of free movement for its own citizens and to help businesses that operate across Europe.

 

The big risk of Brexit is that the instability hits the countries finances with higher interest on government debt meaning increased taxes or reduced spending on services. The cost of Brexit might well be a lot more expensive than any savings on contributions to EU funds.

 

Why take a gamble based on an illusion of sovereignty ?

[tobyjugg2]

Why take a gamble based on an illusion of sovereignty ?

 

and by that you mean the unbridled wishes of a Cameron, Boris or Corbyn?

 

{shudder}

[buckthorn]

Imagine you are in a pub with a group of friends. You have been buying the drinks all night and your friends have happliy accepted this and even told you what flavour of crisps to get, despite the fact you wanted pork scratchings. they insist that no-one else like pork scratchings so you cant buy them. You decide it is time to go home but they demand you stay because they want another drink. you decide to leave anyway so they all say that they wont be your friend any more becuase you wont keep them in beer. The landlord warns you that his entire business is inder threat if you leave and he might just give the others a drink and charge you for it when you come in next time and if you dont agree he will add a few pence to your pint anyway.

 

Brilliant post.

[buckthorn]

The big risk of Brexit is that the instability hits the countries finances with higher interest on government

debt meaning increased taxes or reduced spending on services. The cost of Brexit might well be a lot more expensive than any savings on contributions to EU funds.

 

We keep hearing from those who wish to stay in the undemocratic EU,

that nobody knows what it will be like if we leave this club.

 

What I want to know from these people is what will it be like if we stay in.???????

[tobyjugg2]

We keep hearing from those who wish to stay in the undemocratic EU,

that nobody knows what it will be like if we leave this club.

 

What I want to know from these people is what will it be like if we stay in.???????

 

I think with a decent lead, the EU is ready for change despite Merkel,

as is being shown by a number of the member states imposing limitations -

 

Sadly Cameron hass shown he is NOT that person and only interested in protecting the UK based financial intstitustions, many of which pay damn all tax in the UK.

[buckthorn]

But what do we gain by staying in this club?????

[tobyjugg2]

But what do we gain by staying in this club?????

 

Everything we already have.

[tobyjugg2]

Everything we already have.

 

and at a more beneficial rate than pretty much every other member state.

[buckthorn]

Which is??

[tobyjugg2]

Which is??

 

How many times does that have to be listed?

The EU is the UK's main trading partner, worth more than £400bn a year, or 52% of the total trade in goods and services.

 

heres a couple of high level summaries

http://news.cbi.org.uk/reports/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/

 

http://occupytheory.org/advantages-and-disadvantages-of-the-european-union/

 

and the latest addition is restricting mobile charges.

 

 

Whats more to the point is what will we realistically get if we leave?

No-one knows, but beneficial trading rates with the EU or US is fantasy - as has been shown.

We would probably need to link closer with Russia through necessity if we leave the EU

 

 

Yes the EU will undoubtedly have problems if we leave, but almost certainly less than we will, with very likely Scottish and potential Welsh Independance from the UK and rejoining the EU - adding more EU land borders (to the current Eire) to the much smaller and less important England

And the loss of the Scot nuclear deterrent base and passage through Scottish waters

 

Yes small businesses may benefit, at the cost of higher prices to the population.

Larger businesses will find the trading harder and less profitable - which they will undoubtedly pass down in lower pay for workers

 

The Financial institutions will carry on regardless for their own benefit.

 

 

As I have looked deeper into this, I am now currently firmly an IN vote

[buckthorn]

What you really mean is more of the same, in fact

much-much more of the same, in fact things will

only get worse as we are dragged further and

further into this undemocratic quagmire/mess called the EU.

 

I can only see one bright part, the EU is going to collapse

and I don’t think it will be long before it happens, and when

it does I want to be out of it before it takes us with it.

 

You say:-

The EU is the UK's main trading partner, worth more than £400bn

a year, or 52% of the total trade in goods and services.

 

And how much are we worth to them as they export more to us

than we do to them, do you really think they will stop buying from

us or put a tariff on our goods, they would be rather stupid if they did.

 

Another statement we keep getting is in relation to the number of

brits; working in the EU, they are spread out in the other 27 club

members countries, we have all of theirs over hear, in the UK.