Classmate & Mrs v Halifax

[Classmate]

Hi All

 

This is the response to our first letter requiring all data etc

 

.,i.( i-i- Halifax Plc

Customer Relations

Our reference Roll Number:

Dear Mr and Mrs xxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your recent letter.

I am sure you will appreciate like other organisations we incur costs for every transaction made. When we pay an item against an unauthorised overdraft or return an item unpaid, we incur extra costs regardless of the shortfall involved. We believe it is fair to pass these costs on to the accounts affected, as opposed to them being absorbed by other customers.

Our charging policy is clearly outlined in the terms and conditions that apply to your account. In addition, we are committed to complying with the Banking Code, which sets standards of good banking practice. The terms and conditions of your account state that you must have funds in your account to cover your transactions. We cannot be responsible if you authorise payments against funds that are not available.

We are keen to help you avoid any unnecessary charges by providing various ways to keep track of your account. You can do this using telephone banking on 0845720 30 40, on-line banking (www.halifax.co.uk or Bank Of Scotland - Home -) or mini statements at cash machines. You can also contact one of our banking advisers at any of our branches. Ultimately it is your responsibility to manage your account.

As a gesture of goodwill I would like to offer you £650.00 in full and final settlement of your complaint. I must stress that future charges will stand and we reserve the right to close your account if you do not manage it correctly. To accept my offer please sign and return the enclosed acceptance form in the pre-paid envelope.

Turning to your request for an exhaustive list of charges. While I accept it is your legal right to apply formally for all the records we hold on you this would include a large amount of information, which is not relevant to your complaint. There is also normally a £10 charge for this service. However to help you I enclose a list of your bank charges for the last six years, free of charge. Our Data Subject access department are dealing with your request for other information that you have requested. I am very concerned to learn from your letter of the problems you have encountered because of the unacceptable service you have received on the phone. As an organisation we place great emphasis on providing a high standard of customer service and I regret that this has not been your experience.

In your letter you say that you would like us to remove the default registered on your credit reference file (CRF) in respect of the charges applied. Kindly note that we do not register information on your CRF regarding charges and I am happy to inform you that no such information has been registered in this respect. If you remain unhappy with this response, and you are able to provide evidence that information was registered on your CRF then please provide evidence and I will arrange for this to be investigated.

I know this won’t be the response you were hoping for, to comply with legislation, I

would like to let you know that if you remain unhappy you can refer your concerns to

the Financial Ombudsman Service. They can be contacted by telephone on 0845

080 1800, or by post at:

Yours sincerely

Gurvinder Gill

08457 253519

Customer Relations

Enc. Acceptance Form, Pre-Paid Envelope, Your Complaint and the Ombudsman

 

 

Still waiting for the data protection statements etc but the list of charges they have sent is a one line list going back to 2001 and totalling £1846.00.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Classmate

 

 

[Josamolly]

looks like they have changed tack a bit and skipped the sequence.. you have been lucky that they have been so helpful.. normally they would have just sent a whole bunch of statements for you to sort out...

 

you are now AT LEAST 40 days ahead in the process!!! and they have worked out the charges for you.. still carry on if you wish and send in the 'thanks but no thanks' LBA letter..unless you want to accept it..

 

All SEEMS well but.....

 

Now for my cynical side. either:

 

A.) they have done you a huge favour, are now the most helpful company on earth and have saved you bags of time and a letter and made you an offer already..

 

or

 

B.) You actually are owed much more so they have given you a list of charges that THEY want you to see, and not the exhaustive list that will appear on your statements...

 

I may be totally wrong here, but do leopard's change their spots...

[Angi]

ohh nice offer, but you dont want to take that do you? no you dont,

I think Brian is right, they owe you a lot more, wait for all you statements, then you can let us know HOW much your claim really is.

 

below is a Dont accept letter, you can copy & paste it, fill in the missing bits with your details, you will see a part if your still waiting for statements, just add your estimated amount & delete the bit you dont need (hope that makes sense) if not PM me please.

One final thing, this is your claim, its up to you what you do, take the money or wait(wait is good). People will help you if you get stuck, just keep your thread updated. ohh & dont sign anything the banks send you

 

dont accept letter...

 

Your Address

 

Their Address

 

Date

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Sort Code:

ACCOUNT NUMBER:

 

 

Your Reference:

 

In response to your letter offering £xxxx as a goodwill gesture - your offer is accepted only as a partial repayment of the outstanding balance and I do not recognise it as a full and final settlement.

 

Although I appreciate your offer, I would like to notify you that my request is for £xxxx

(Or if your still waiting for statements put your estimated amount here, as you can adjust it later on)

I hope this matter can be resolved amicably and swiftly.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

(your name)

 

 

[Isiris]

From persoanl experience and I have had 4 claims settled in full from Halifax, the list of charges will be headed 94D. These are the charges as they have charged you.

 

I am 101% certain that these are the exact charges levied to you. I too got the list first then when I got the statements they married up exactly. Definately refuse the offer though. They will pay when you issue a court claim

[cinnamondk]

i got the exact same letter yesterday...

 

i now intend to send my LBA

[Realist]

As a fellow winner against Halifax, I would advise NOT to accept the small joke 1st time offer and go all the way.

 

They will cave in, they have no choice.

 

Regards.

[Classmate]

Hi Guys

Havent posted for a while. Been gleaning as much info from forum as possible. Seems we are missing something with our case?

Here's where we are up to. Sorry it's such a lot of info. Appreciate any feedback.

 

Here we go - Our first letter to Halifax:

 

Mr. Andrew Hornby

Chief Executive xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Halifax PLC xxxxxxxxxx

Trinity Road xxxxxxxxxx

HX1 2RG xxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxx

11th October 2006

 

 

Dear Sir

Re: Sort code: xxxxxxx Account number: xxxxxxxxxxxx

We have held the above current account with your bank for over ten years. During this time we have incurred charges for exceeding our overdraft limit due to cheques being cleared with insufficient funds in the account at unfortunate times, unauthorized overdraft fees, direct debits being dishonoured (and in some cases honored) due to insufficient funds.

 

It is our opinion, and that of the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), that these charges are punitive in nature, not a genuine pre-estimate of cost and not intended to re-imburse your losses for a breach of contract occurring. Further to the 1999 Consumer Credit Regulations quoted by the OFT, there are numerous cases in law that prove that punitive charges in contracts are unenforceable at English law.

There are many cases of this type far too many to list here.

It is with the above in mind that we have decided to formally place the handling of this account in dispute.

 

We have been made aware that we are required to make a payment into our account to cover an outstanding balance which has been accrued by the imposition of punitive charges otherwise a default notice will be issued. We are making you aware that we will not be making this deposit and that as the amount owed is being disputed, you are requested not to pass on any information to credit reference agencies which could be in breach of The Banking Code; section 13.6 "We may give information to credit reference agencies about the personal debts you owe us if: the amount owed is not in dispute until this situation has been resolved.

It is also our intention to pursue this dispute with the Financial Ombudsman Services and the Financial Services Authority.

 

Since being informed of this default notice and the disrespect of some of your staff afforded us in phone conversations, we have taken further advice from statuary bodies and others and with this in mind we are formally requesting the following information.

As a signatory to the Data Protection Act, you will be aware that we can make an application at any time for any and all records held by your organization which refer to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx held on computer or by any other means.

We hereby invoke that right, and request that within 40 days you provide all information that you hold, including but not limited to, details of accounts, full detailed lists of transactions, statements, breakdowns of charges and any sundry notes that may be held with relation to telephone conversations, meetings or correspondence.

As you are no doubt aware, the office of the Information Commissioner allows for the payment of £10 covering any expenses required in fulfilling this request. We have therefore enclosed a cheque so that this transaction can take place in order to expedite a resolution to this dispute. However, you are afforded 40 days to comply with this request or you must request an extension from the Information Commissioner.

 

If you are of any doubt that the Data Protection Act covers this information, may we respectfully draw your attention to the case of Smith v Lloyds TSB in February 2005, where the judge ruled that bank statement information is indeed personal information and thus covered. In any event, this information is requested with a view to possible legal action being taken on our part and therefore would be covered under the same act.

 

This letter has been delivered by recorded delivery for the purpose of date stamping when the 40 days started for any legal action that may follow.

Please forward the information requested to our address given above.

 

Yours Faithfully

CC: Matthew Ball (Senior Collections Manager)

Branch Manager

Their Response:

.,i.( i-i- Halifax Plc

Customer Relations

Our reference Roll Number:

Dear Mr and Mrs xxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your recent letter.

I am sure you will appreciate like other organisations we incur costs for every transaction made. When we pay an item against an unauthorised overdraft or return an item unpaid, we incur extra costs regardless of the shortfall involved. We believe it is fair to pass these costs on to the accounts affected, as opposed to them being absorbed by other customers.

Our charging policy is clearly outlined in the terms and conditions that apply to your account. In addition, we are committed to complying with the Banking Code, which sets standards of good banking practice. The terms and conditions of your account state that you must have funds in your account to cover your transactions. We cannot be responsible if you authorise payments against funds that are not available.

We are keen to help you avoid any unnecessary charges by providing various ways to keep track of your account. You can do this using telephone banking on 0845720 30 40, on-line banking (Halifax Online - UK Banks, Finance, Telephone & Internet Banking or Bank Of Scotland - Home -) or mini statements at cash machines. You can also contact one of our banking advisers at any of our branches. Ultimately it is your responsibility to manage your account.

As a gesture of goodwill I would like to offer you £650.00 in full and final settlement of your complaint. I must stress that future charges will stand and we reserve the right to close your account if you do not manage it correctly. To accept my offer please sign and return the enclosed acceptance form in the pre-paid envelope.

Turning to your request for an exhaustive list of charges. While I accept it is your legal right to apply formally for all the records we hold on you this would include a large amount of information, which is not relevant to your complaint. There is also normally a £10 charge for this service. However to help you I enclose a list of your bank charges for the last six years, free of charge. Our Data Subject access department are dealing with your request for other information that you have requested. I am very concerned to learn from your letter of the problems you have encountered because of the unacceptable service you have received on the phone. As an organisation we place great emphasis on providing a high standard of customer service and I regret that this has not been your experience.

In your letter you say that you would like us to remove the default registered on your credit reference file (CRF) in respect of the charges applied. Kindly note that we do not register information on your CRF regarding charges and I am happy to inform you that no such information has been registered in this respect. If you remain unhappy with this response, and you are able to provide evidence that information was registered on your CRF then please provide evidence and I will arrange for this to be investigated.

I know this won’t be the response you were hoping for, to comply with legislation, I

would like to let you know that if you remain unhappy you can refer your concerns to

the Financial Ombudsman Service. They can be contacted by telephone on 0845

080 1800, or by post at:

Yours sincerely

Gurvinder Gill

08457 253519

Customer Relations

Enc. Acceptance Form, Pre-Paid Envelope, Your Complaint and the Ombudsman

 

 

Our reply to them:

.

2nd November 2006

Halifax Plc

Customer Relations

PO Box 548

Leeds

LS1 1WU

 

Re: Account number xxxxxxxxx

Your Ref xxxxxxxxx

 

Response to settlement offer.

 

Dear Gurvinder Gill

 

Thank you for your letter dated 16th October 2006

We respectfully decline your offer of settlement and request that you return to me all charges imposed on this account.

We will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that we will pursue recovery of the remainder, with a County Court claim if necessary.

We are in receipt of a preliminary list of charges totalling £1846.00, but at this time we are still awaiting the compliance with our formal request for you to “provide all information that you hold, including but not limited to details of accounts, full detailed lists of transactions, statements, breakdowns of charges and any sundry notes that may be held with relation to telephone conversations, meetings or correspondence held on computer or by any other means.” on receipt of which would confirm or otherwise that this total is an accurate and true reflection of charges imposed.

In regards to there normally being a £10 charge for this service, we would like to point out that this payment was included in the letter dated 11th October and addressed to Mr Andrew Hornby, Chief Executive Halifax Plc, Trinity Road, HX1 2RG.

We note from your letter that your Data Subject access department are dealing with our request and would like to draw your attention to the time frame allowed for compliance (40 days from receipt of request).

We would also like to point out that your inference that our request for all information is not relevant to our complaint would appear to be at odds with the reply we received from the branch Co Manager Liz Rice who wrote “I understand that the complaint is due to charges being applied to your account “

We will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that we will pursue recovery of the remainder, with a County Court claim if necessary.

Our letter sent previously indicates that you have until 20th November 2006 to respond before any possible Court action commences. You are reminded that there will be no extension to this timescale.

 

We trust this clarifies our position.

 

Yours faithfully

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Whilst waiting for a response we received this:

Blair, Oliver and Scott LIMITED;

Telephone: 0870 240 5138

Our Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

xxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxx

31 October 2006

Dear Sir/Madam,

Halifax

Account Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxBalance: f506.23Dr

We are a professional Debt Collection Agency instructed by our above client to obtain payment of the balance owed by you. You will appreciate that our client requires payment of the full balance outstanding as soon as possible.

What Action is Required by You

(1) Make Payment in full to the account. Payment can be made by using a credit or debit card by contacting our Helpline or by sending a cheque or postal order to our address quoting the above reference number.

or

(2) Contact this office with repayment proposals quoting our above reference number. Our hours of business are 8.3Oam to 7.3Opm Monday to Friday and 8.3Oam to l2.3Opm on Saturday.

What will happen if you do not take the above action

(1) We may instruct one of our local door to door agents to call on you to discuss the matter further.

and/or

(2) We may commence legal action against you.

Yours faithfully,

J. Smyth,

Manager,

Litigation.

Po(m No 10o710

And then 9th November:

 

HALl FAX

CR FF Halifax Plc

Your Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxx Customer Relations

PC Box 548

9th November 2006 Leeds

LS1

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxx Telephone: 08457 253519

xxxxxxxxxx Fax: 0845 1281385

xxxxxxxxxxx

Our reference xxxxxxxxxDear Mr & Mrs xxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your recent letter.

As a gesture of goodwill we offered you £650.00, which you do not wish to accept. I confirm that we will not refund all the charges you have incurred on your account since opening your account. I must also stress that future charges wi!l stand and we reserve the right to close your account if you do not manage it correctly.

If you remain unhappy you can refer your concerns to the Financial Ombudsman Service as outlined in our previous letter

I ‘d like to remind you, if you wish to refer the matter to the Ombudsman then you must do so within 6 months of the date of our previous letter.

Yours sincerely

Helen Martin

Review Manager

Customer Relations

Halifax plc. Registered Office: Trinity Road, Halifax West Yorkshire HX1 2RG Registered in England No 2367076 Authorised and

regulated by the Financial Services Authority.

Still no response to the data protection request but the clock's ticking.

Will update regularly in future:confused:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Classmate]

How true is this?

 

Received response for list of transactions and charges and Halifax have quoted

 

"With regard to your request for information relating to manual intervention on your account, HBOS plc is under no statutory obligation to record this information and therefore, I am unable to assist further with your request."

 

How do we respond to this?

 

Any assistance on this would be greatly appreciated

 

Classmate

[wandererpaul]

it doesn't mean anything really. just ignore it.

 

just add up all your charges and put them into the spreadsheet and get your claim going !!

 

don't work out the interest yet though !!

 

save 2 spreadsheets. one with the interest added and one without the interest. Your next step is the Pre Lim letter and you need to include the charges you've received to date schedule from the spreadsheet with your letter.

 

good luck. i'm just in front of you. got 10 more days for pre lim then its the LBA letter.

[stoppaRed]

If you use the advanced s/sheet, this works out interest for you on the part of the overdraft that relates to the charges.

I was to understand that this is OK with your prelim letter , asking for this interest. When you file the N1 you can then add interest @ 8%.on top of that interest and charges.

Hope someone comes along to confirm or deny this

[Springer]

Yes that's right stoppared!

 

I personally found it very difficult to calculate the contractual interest, so ignored that as it didn't have much affect on my claim anyway, and just added the 8% when I did my Money Claim On Line.

 

Best to see what works out best for you.

 

xox

[Classmate]

Thanks for replys

Iwas really trying to ask about what they can retain following the data request,Iknow the Halifax put a default on my crf about 18 mths ago and removed it when I kicked up a fuss,this was before I found out about this great site.I was expecting all the info on this account because I feel like taking them to the cleaners, like they have taken us all for years.

Steve

[Springer]

I got the same standard bit as you re: the manual intervention. It just seems they aren't disclosing this information to anyone, and looking at the other forums, all the banks seem to saying the same thing on this topic!

 

xox

[Classmate]

Yes your right i've read a lot of posts,but I never mentioned man inter in my data request I asked for all information held:

electronic,written,recordings notes and any sundrie information relating to this acc.I was hoping to get the evidence of the crf put on me and then withdrawn after the fuss I made.This did have an impact on me having to take out a loan at a higher rate than I could have got from my other bank who offered me a good rate loan for a new car and then withdrew the exceptance of same 1 month later following the CRF halifax put on my credit file.Defamation of character,unfair banking practice,fitness to hold a credit licence,you get my drift. I am really prepared to go the whole nine yards with this,won't be happy with just punitive charges back so all help I can get from our forum buddys will be very welcome.

cheeers.

Steve

[stoppaRed]

Springer,

the advanced spreadsheet works it all out for you. On the R/H side you enter the date, interest charged and the balance and the s/sheet inseerts the interest.

I hope I am correct as I have sent mine and my mums off like this

[jonni2bad]

Hi

 

Don't be too concerned by the account being passed to Blair Oliver Scott. If you have already sent them the Prelim and the LBA and the timescales for response has passed, then proceed to the next stage - court action.

 

If you've missed one then simply send the next letter.....

 

If it's time for Court then you'll need to issue the claim via the N1 claim form in person, rather than online - since your claim for something other than just money.

 

At the date that your account was defaulted, what were the level of charges imposed? Remember, AT THAT DATE, not the total so far...