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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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mis sold a car please help


MIPPLE81
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I purchased a car yesterday from quite a big dealer approx 100 miles away from myself.

 

A company went and collected the car after negotiation over the phone and emails with the seller.

 

Upon delivery last night I was quite happy with the car albeit a scratch on the driver inside leather and the anti chip protection that had been poorly fitted,

 

however the car was sold and advertised as a 2013 62 first registered july 2013 to be precise

 

the log book quite clearly shows that it was in fact first registered in 2012. The date of 2013 was when it was first bought into the uk.

 

This in turn makes the car 6 months older that advertised and needing an mot sooner than told.

 

I have emailed the company back and they have detailed an email saying how shoddy the company was I had asked to collect the vehicle

 

, there were no scratches internally or externally as well as intimated that I have no idea what I am talking about and they are at a loss at to why I have contacted them back.

 

They are a very well known company, the car was not a cheap car and I am extremely surprised by their response.

 

Am I correct in saying that the car has been miss sold due to misleading/misguiding information and incorrect information being used to advertise?

The car was first registered in 2012 but then registered in the uk in 2013 as it is an import...

 

Any help and advise would be most appreciated

thankyou In advance.

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Car has to be as advertised, otherwise you have a claim under sale of goods act.

 

You need to somehow work out the loss suffered due to age of the car being different, then send a letter before action stating your claim and that if they don't come tona satisfactory settlement you will issue a county court claim against them.

 

As you did not see the car before it was transported, you have no proof re the scratches, so i would forget about that. It is the age of the car and the difference in value.

We could do with some help from you.

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See if you can find out from Parkers car values guides and from advertised cars for sale what the difference in value would be. If you take them to court, you would need such evidence.

We could do with some help from you.

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A couple of questions:

 

 

How did you pay for the car ?

Did you visit the seller and make the purchase ?

 

The car was paid for via a bank transfer no finance. We didn't visit the seller, everything was done over the phone and emails

Thankyou

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Ok so a distance purchase. Did you get paperwork from the dealer informing you of your right to cancel ?

 

 

New regulations came in last year which replaced the Distance Selling Regulations and extended the period of rejection from 7 days to 14 days.

If you didn't receive any paperwork telling you of the above, then your 14 days don't even start until you receive it. If you don't receive it at all, then the date is automatically extended a full year beyond the date at which it would’ve ended.

 

 

You have to decide now if you want to keep the car or reject it. If the latter, then if must be done my letter and I would send it by recorded delivery.

 

 

For future reference, make large purchases like this with a credit card or at least £100 of it. That way you are covered by regulations that make the card bank also liable to pay you should the dealer fail to do so.

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Ok so a distance purchase. Did you get paperwork from the dealer informing you of your right to cancel ?

 

New regulations came in last year which replaced the Distance Selling Regulations and extended the period of rejection from 7 days to 14 days.

If you didn't receive any paperwork telling you of the above, then your 14 days don't even start until you receive it. If you don't receive it at all, then the date is automatically extended a full year beyond the date at which it would’ve ended.

 

You have to decide now if you want to keep the car or reject it. If the latter, then if must be done my letter and I would send it by recorded delivery.

 

For future reference, make large purchases like this with a credit card or at least £100 of it.

That way you are covered by regulations that make the card bank also liable to pay you should the dealer fail to do so.

 

Thankyou for your help...

 

I have since sent a letter rejecting the car under the grounds of being mis sold etc

 

Iv not gone into great depth or bumbled on, kept it factual and stated iv stopped using it in line with the rejection.

 

Today, iv had an email back stating the car cannot be rejected as he has not mis sold the car

and he's drafted a 200 word letter slagging off the company I used to collect the car.

 

 

He then says I need to give him the mileage and he will purchase the car back at a loss!!

 

If I copy and paste my letter and their reply would any of you have the time to look through it and advise?

 

I'd be most grateful

Thankyou

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Whoa!!!

 

As I read this it seems to me that the seller sold a car 2013 Model Year car which was first registered in 2012 which is now on a 13 plate because of the import which is quite plausible and often happens (the car was sold and advertised as a 2013 62 first registered july 2013 to be precise).

 

Therefore I can't quite see at the moment that the dealer has done anything wrong apart from not saying it was first registered in July 13 in the UK.

 

Model year changes can happen up to 9 months before the actual year starts.

 

What you need to check is if it is a 2013 MY as if it is then you could well be stuffed as that would be the defence. If it turns out to be a 2012 MY then you would have grounds to reject.

Edited by heliosuk
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It certainly could be clever use of words, but if it was marketed as a first registered 2013 when in fact it was first registered in 2012, then that is naughty.

If he sold it as a 2013 model when it is a 2013 model, then ok, but if it was built and first reg in 2012, then that makes it a 2012 car and claiming it is a 2013 car first registered in 2013 is not on, a 2012 car is not of the same value as a 2013 car.

 

It should have been advertised as an import and first registered in the UK in 2013.

 

Can you clear this up for us Mipple81 what exactly did the advertisement say and what did the salesman say ??

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The clue must be in the 2013, 62 statement Conniff. For the car to be on a 13 plate it must have been registered between March and September 2013 however he states it's a 2013 62 which means something must have happened between Sept 2012 and March 2013 otherwise it would be a 2013 12. Franchised Dealers frequently see this on cars that have been sold to RHD markets to service personnel overseas sold at a discount as the staff frequently have to explain why a warranty would not be valid as it starts from the sold/delivered date to the first owner not the registration date. I recently came across a not too unsimilar situation in Israel where the parents bought a car for their son and stored it in a garage for a year as he was doing his national service and when he came to claim for an item which was only covered for a year was told it wasn't covered. His argument that the car had only just been registered and was brand new which it wasn't.

 

I honestly think that the cost of pursuing this might outweigh the difference in the value between a 62 plate and a 13 plate so I think I'd also be going after the DVLA as they are meant to issue an age related plate so it looks like they've got it wrong as well!

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If it's in black and white, I really would copy and send that letter to the lifting company marked personal for the boss.

 

 

How many miles have you done since you got it ??

 

Iv forwarded the letter to the company and they have now entered Into conversations with the dealer.

Iv done approx 20miles, iv not used it since sending the letter of rejection, he's replied saying hel do nothing apart from but the car back at a Loss.

Oh another thing, iv gone through all the pictures advertising the car on his website and the damage to the door is there if you zoom in.... The damage he has put in writing that has been 100% done since delivery of the car!

I'm not too sure what to do now since his reply?

Thankyou

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Apologies, my phone had a wobbler and iv only just seen your previous messages... I will try and clear up what iv said lol

The car was advertised as a 2013 - 62 in two places. Further down the advert it says model year 2013 stating it is an import.

It says on the advert car was first registered in July 2013, it also says date of registration on receipt July 2013. However the log book states date of first reg 5.10.12 and date of first reg in uk 18.7.13 also the receipt states date of first reg 18.7.13 It doesn't say in uk.

 

I hope iv put this right and made sense.

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If goods are taken back because of rejection, there can be a fair reduction in the refund because of 'enjoyment', as you have only done 20 miles, that won't apply neither will saying the car is of less value now than when it was sold to you.

 

 

You now have two choices, do nothing and keep the car or send a Letter Before Action and let the courts sort it our. If you aren't willing to go to court, then there is only the first option.

Court can sound scary but it really isn't and the initial cost is low and added to your claim. If you paid for the delivery, that must also be added to the claim so you are left in the same position as your were before you bought the car.

 

 

The LBA will be the car details and a reminder that you sent a letter rejection the car and the reason for the rejection. You then give him 7 days from receipt of the letter, (send recorded or special delivery), to come and collect the car and refund the full amount or action will be taken without further notice.

 

 

If after the 7 days and a couple to give him the benefit of the doubt, he hasn't contacted you to say he is coming to collect it, then you must start the action.

 

 

A lot of these dealers will just huff and puff and drag it out because they know that in the main, a threat of court action never materialises into actual court action, so you really must be prepared to go to court or not threaten.

Edited by Conniff
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the problem is that the dealer has not lied though...OP quotes the ad

 

 

''Further down the advert it says model year 2013 stating it is an import.

It says on the advert car was first registered in July 2013, it also says date of registration on receipt July 2013. However the log book states date of first reg 5.10.12 and date of first reg in uk 18.7.13''

 

 

I haven't sold cars in years now but all my standard pre printed sales invoices had various sections to fill out eg chassis no, engine, reg no etc and one of the was 'date of first registration in UK'

 

 

If it says that then he bought what he saw advertised

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the problem is that the dealer has not lied though...OP quotes the ad

 

 

''Further down the advert it says model year 2013 stating it is an import.

It says on the advert car was first registered in July 2013, it also says date of registration on receipt July 2013. However the log book states date of first reg 5.10.12 and date of first reg in uk 18.7.13''

 

 

I haven't sold cars in years now but all my standard pre printed sales invoices had various sections to fill out eg chassis no, engine, reg no etc and one of the was 'date of first registration in UK'

 

 

If it says that then he bought what he saw advertised

 

 

Thanks Odd Job, it didn't see that.

 

 

If that is the case, then I can't really see that you have a complaint to reject, if you didn't see that before your purchase but it was as advertised, then the problem is not with the dealer.

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