Cabot/weightmans claimform - old Cap1 'debt'

[AndyOrch]

Defence amended and checked.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

thanks andy

 

 

mrben

 

 

you can copy and paste that directly from here into the mcol page

[mrben22]

Andy many thanks for your help . I have taken your amendments now , very much appreciated

 

Unfortunately Im in a right panic now as logged onto MCOL site to file defence , and when you get to the 3rd page where you input your defence an go to next , you get error message !! due to technical issues

 

Not sure if site is having problems , Ive tried it several times and will continue to this afternoon before 4pm , but the help desk number on the error page , rings then constantly get engaged tone !!

 

fingers crossed its just a blip with the site or I really am in trouble now !

[dx100uk]

quite usual

 

 

you can email the defence later so no panic

 

 

see what happens

 

 

dx

[AndyOrch]

MCOL is only one way of responding to a claim. If you are having problems logging in, or would prefer not to use MCOL, you can fax, email or post your response to the Court instead. If you send your response by e mail please send it to [email protected] and ensure you quote “Claim response” in the subject field. If you are fully admitting to the claim then the admission form should be sent to the claimant directly and not to the court.

[mrben22]

DX you may have saved the day for me ......YET AGAIN !

 

Im in a panic to get it sent over as Ive limited time today to be available to do so, hence why trying now having had the OK that defence is ready from yourself and Andy

 

When you say I can e mail it , do you happen to know the correct e mail address to sent it from or do I have to just send it to the e mail address listed on the error message

 

page on MCOL site of : [email protected] ??

 

Is there anything particular about what I need to include in the subject title or body of the email in terms of usual protocol when e mailing defence , as well the defence document itself i.e in a word document ??

 

sorry not wanting to waste more of your time on admin matters like this , just value your opinion & experience as seems you use to hearing of these MCOL error messages !!

[dx100uk]

post 30

 

 

dx

[mrben22]

Andy / DX

 

thank you both very much , yet again for such timely response and assistance.

 

Would it be prudent to sent the defence as a PDF file as sending via e mail or a word doc will be OK ??

 

Sorry if im being overly worried now , will be able to leave you to assist others now , until I have any further update.

 

Hope you have a good Easter.

[AndyOrch]

Either

[mrben22]

Hi

 

So I have now had a response from Weightmans as somewhat expected advising that they do not accept my defence I submitted.(attached below )

Having been away for a while & had to sort by PC & technology problems out , I have now also received both :

 

- a letter and " proposed directions " form to complete from weightmans , basically suggesting the claim be stayed for 3 months to allow both parties oppoertunity to negotiate settlement.

 

- a Notice of Proposed Allocation To The Fast Track , and 6 page directions questionnaire to complete from the court.

 

Also both attached and I obviously need to respond to asap although I dont really understand what I should or should not be doing now ??

 

Only details I got back from Cabot in response to my request are a pile of statements summaries , a letter of statement of account , a badly copied photocopy of the original short application form and an up to date set of CC agreement T&C's (which are obviously not the original ones as they details £12 default fees as opposed to the £20 they were at the original time ! ) . This response bck from cabot was recieved on the 9th May 2015 although they dated them the 1st May 2015.

 

Hope someone can advise of my best required course of action now please and offer advise of completing details I need to get back ?

 

Many thanks

[AndyOrch]

You are now at Allocation stage ...this progresses the claim to track and outlines the directions of how the claim will proceed.Its very important that you complete the N181 and return it by the date stated.

 

It is important to note that within the claimants directions they have opted for SCT Small Claims Track......significant on a claim over 10K and may be perceived as a signal of weakness in its claim.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[mrben22]

Andy

 

Thank you for your reply , I have now read through standard directions CPR 28 and Leaflet EX305 (as mentioned on the directions questionnaire from the court ) and tried to understand their contents as best I can.

 

In view of the fact that overall if need be , I think I would need to try and reach an agreed settlement on this claim and avoid any possibility of going to a court trial

Do I return the proposed directions to weightmans that they sent to me , agreeing to their suggested 3 months stayed period to try and negotiate a settlement ?? and if I do , Its presumably best just to print my written name on it rather than my actual signature on it ??

 

The proposed directions from weightmans suggest this 3 month period of claim to be stayed for negotiation , however the EX305 states that a judge will usually only allow to be stayed for 1 month , and if more time is required a judge will usually only give parties a further 1 month and no more ??

 

Weightmand proposed directions (point 5 ) a hearing for the claim would be a date in Jan / Feb 2016 . Presumably this does not have any bearing on the claim being potentially statue barred at this point , as the last payment I made on this was on the 3/1/2010 ??

 

If I am in agreement with these proposed directions from weightmans (as they seem a reasonable & realistic timescale , to attempt negotiation & reach settlement of the claim ) , then do I complete the the directions questionnare along these lines and do I need to send a copy to weightmans as well ?? or just return their proposed directions to them with my agreement.

 

Im at the point now where I believe I will have to try and reach a settlement with weightmans / cabot Financial , as they appear to be confident they have enough evidence to force the issue to trial and I really cannot afford to get a CCJ against me now having put all other debts & financial problems behind me over the last 5 and a half years !

My only case against them now seems to be that they have never been able to provide any true copy of a completed CCA agreement other than the original application form with my signature on (which may be adequate for their purposes to prove enforcement of the debt ? ) and they only ever provide a seperate copy of standard recent T&C's of the CCA rather than any original one or signed copy etc .

 

I aware I need to get details back to the court now asap and well within their deadline which I will ensue I do , just want to make sure that accepting that I need to agree to weightmans proposed directions & to try and negotiate is realistically by best chance to avoid getting a CCJ issued against me ?

 

sorry lots of questions I Know , Im just anxious to process this as I need too now and not take too much of your time keep coming back to you unnecessarily with lots of further questions.

Thanks

[dx100uk]

mediation etc..theres nowt to mediate over until they provide an enforceable agreement

stand your ground

 

 

dx

[AndyOrch]

Andy

 

Thank you for your reply , I have now read through standard directions CPR 28 and Leaflet EX305 (as mentioned on the directions questionnaire from the court ) and tried to understand their contents as best I can.

 

In view of the fact that overall if need be , I think I would need to try and reach an agreed settlement on this claim and avoid any possibility of going to a court trial

Do I return the proposed directions to weightmans that they sent to me , agreeing to their suggested 3 months stayed period to try and negotiate a settlement ?? and if I do , Its presumably best just to print my written name on it rather than my actual signature on it ?? You complete your N180 and also agree to Small Claims Track and mediation...copy to the court signed copy to the claimant (unsigned) also attach a copy of the directions to both....I personally wouldn't agree 3 months ...say 2...this is only allowing them more time to try to retrieve said agreement...its not for mediation purposes.

 

The proposed directions from weightmans suggest this 3 month period of claim to be stayed for negotiation , however the EX305 states that a judge will usually only allow to be stayed for 1 month , and if more time is required a judge will usually only give parties a further 1 month and no more ?? See above

 

Weightmand proposed directions (point 5 ) a hearing for the claim would be a date in Jan / Feb 2016 . Presumably this does not have any bearing on the claim being potentially statue barred at this point , as the last payment I made on this was on the 3/1/2010 ?? Clock stopped anyway on issue of the claim

 

If I am in agreement with these proposed directions from weightmans (as they seem a reasonable & realistic timescale , to attempt negotiation & reach settlement of the claim ) , then do I complete the the directions questionnare along these lines and do I need to send a copy to weightmans as well ?? or just return their proposed directions to them with my agreement. See above

 

Im at the point now where I believe I will have to try and reach a settlement with weightmans / cabot Financial , as they appear to be confident they have enough evidence to force the issue to trial and I really cannot afford to get a CCJ against me now having put all other debts & financial problems behind me over the last 5 and a half years !

My only case against them now seems to be that they have never been able to provide any true copy of a completed CCA agreement other than the original application form with my signature on (which may be adequate for their purposes to prove enforcement of the debt ? ) and they only ever provide a separate copy of standard recent T&C's of the CCA rather than any original one or signed copy etc .And that is the crux of the claim...hence the 3 months stay...no valid agreement ...no enforcement

 

I aware I need to get details back to the court now asap and well within their deadline which I will ensue I do , just want to make sure that accepting that I need to agree to weightmans proposed directions & to try and negotiate is realistically by best chance to avoid getting a CCJ issued against me ? Possibly should you wish to agree settlement

 

sorry lots of questions I Know , Im just anxious to process this as I need too now and not take too much of your time keep coming back to you unnecessarily with lots of further questions.

Thanks

 

Regards

 

Andy

[mrben22]

DX thanks for your reply

Your response has also been my attitude up until this point , however it would seem that weightmans / cabot appear to be confident that despite me requested a true copy of a CCA with all the true and original T&C's , that they just provide the copy of the original short application for with my signature on at the bottom !

 

Im starting to worry that this copy of the application form may actually constitute an adequate form of documentation to be able to prove enforceablility of the debt ?

 

I need to reply to weightsmans by the 9th at the latest , (so in post SD on Monday 8th ) in response and acceptance of their proposed direction , as I poposed up in post 35. Presumably if I do accept this , than at the very least its buying me some time to negotiate / clarify whats required from the claimant ??

 

As I mentioned because im not sure or confident whether they have adequate to enforce the debt , I really cant afford to have a CCJ registered against me at this point , having spent the last 5 and half years suffering the effects of all credit history being completely trashed and sorting out all other previous debts which are now settled.

Andy had previously suggested that their proposed small claims track perhaps suggests a weakness in their claim , is this because they cannot actually provide a signed CCA or does the application form constitute the same as this , as they appear to believe it does ?

 

I certainly dont want to accept this particularly in view of the fact that as of Jan 2016 I believe enough time would have past for it to be potentially statute barred , however not sure If this is the most realistic path I have to take to avoid a CCJ ?

 

Hence the number of questions I raised / asked in post 37 , if either yourself or Andy could offer anything further to help answer these and direction for me, id really appreciate your help , you have both been invaluable in all your help to this stage.

 

many thanks

[mrben22]

DX /Andy

 

Sorry just sent my last post (post 40 ) and then had seen that Andy had also just replied to my previous questions in his reply post 39

 

I will respond as Andy has suggested and copy in court & weightmans , just perhaps update the proposed stay to the 2 month period as Andy suggests ..

 

It would seem that no one can really be sure whether the Short application form which does have my signature on , does actually constitute adequate proof to enforce the debt or not ? as I cant ever actually remember ever signing anything other than this in terms of an actually CCA

[dx100uk]

hi ya

I see andy has answered

whilst you were posting.

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

so cabot have responded with a reply to your CCA request?

dx

[theoldrouge]

DX /Andy

 

Sorry just sent my last post (post 40 ) and then had seen that Andy had also just replied to my previous questions in his reply post 39

 

I will respond as Andy has suggested and copy in court & weightmans , just perhaps update the proposed stay to the 2 month period as Andy suggests ..

 

It would seem that no one can really be sure whether the Short application form which does have my signature on , does actually constitute adequate proof to enforce the debt or not ? as I cant ever actually remember ever signing anything other than this in terms of an actually CCA

Cabots reply does not comply with s78(1)

 

Read the app form refers to clause 23 overleaf nowhere to be seen

[mrben22]

Just a quick update

The only details i have had since I last posted are now attached and consist of

 

- a settlement offer sent from claimant (which I just ignored and frankly would advise that I had never recieved if need be )

 

- a notice of transfer of proceedings

 

- a standard order for stay for settlement with consent of all parties. (this details claim being stayed until 1st september 2015 )

 

- a copy of the claimants directions questionnaire that they submitted. ( I note in section C , THE PRE-ACTION PROTOCOLS , their comments about how they have NOT complied with the relevant pre-action protocol and not providing copy documentation ! ) so they have stated that they have not to date provided a vlalid copy of the CCA , other than the application form I posted previously )

 

my question is , In view of the fact that the stay period of the 1st sept is next week should I be sending or registering any further details , sent asap now & recorded before this date ?? The claimant has not sent any further details to me since their previous settlement offer on the 9th june which I viewed as just ridiculous and completely out of the question and so just ignored it completely !

 

I dont know what the next stage is to be & likely timescales ??

 

Any further advise or thoughts at this stage would be most appreciated as always

[shamrocker]

Have you completed a directions questionnaire and returned it already? That's all that's required of you unless some sort of settlement has been reached and the claimant then notifies the court.

 

I note they have requested Small Claims Track. Are they trying to protect themselves against a big costs bill in the event they lose? It could be a fair indication of their confidence in this claim. On the other hand, it would also protect you against having to pay substantial costs should you go to trial and lose.

 

Just wait until you hear more from the court - probably a hearing date and directions. Soon after you should have a chance to get a better idea of how strong the claimant is positioned when you get their witness statement and any disclosure of documents/evidence. If there are weaknesses present you can then try to exploit them.

[AndyOrch]

On a £16 K claim ...no chance of SCT...its to protect themselves having to pay the hearing fee £545 in FT ....£170 In SCT.

 

Andy

[mrben22]

ih

 

since my last update the following are the documents and correspondence I have had from the court and the claimants solicitors.

 

- a standard order for further stay until the 8th feb 2016 (which the claimants presumably requested as I did not) , dated the 161015

 

- 2 further suggested settlement offers from weightmans . I did not respond to either as im not in a postion to consider offers of this sort of amounts. dated the 301015 and 231115.

 

- a copy of suggested Draft Directions from weightmans that they are proposing to submit asking for me to agree with or make suggested amendments.

 

so it would appear that the claimant are determined to take this to a court hearing if need be.

 

If I send the agreed Directions back confirming that I agree with these , do I then presumably await to hear from the court of a date as suggested some time in April / May for the hearing ? and can expect to get any related documents they intend to use no later than 14 days before this hearing ?

 

As stated previously the only CCA documentation they have ever provided is a copy of a short application form as I have uploaded before and the t&c's have always been copies of more up to date ones as they contain details of the £12 late fees etc rather than £20 fees that would have been in place at the time of this agreement in 2002. So Im still unsure as to exactly what makes them confidently believe they have an enforceable agreement ?

 

In the time between now and any date for a hearing in April / May , is it still acceptable to reach a settlement agreement , I cant possibly entertain the figures their offers have suggested but if it came to it am unsure as to whether I should attempt to reach some form of agreement to pay back in instalments . Its taken the last 5 years to try and get my financial history slightly back on track that and I really want to try and avoid it being completely trashed again for the next 5 or 6 years with a CCJ on there ! But Im not really at all confident in what they believe they have to make this an enforecable agreement .

 

As always any advise would be most appreciated , thank you

Weightmans Settlement Offer No.2_ 301015.pdf

Weightmans settlement offer No.3_ 231115.pdf

Order for FURTHER Stay for settlement 161015.pdf

Weightmans Draft Directions_Before Feb 8th_190116.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Directions seem standard and fine mrben so I would run with them...with regards to their offers they do not appear to be in that much of a hurry to get to trial.

 

"If I send the agreed Directions back confirming that I agree with these , do I then presumably await to hear from the court of a date as suggested some time in April / May for the hearing ? Yes I assume you have completed and submitted your DQ ? and can expect to get any related documents they intend to use no later than 14 days before this hearing ? Correct and you must also do your disclosure and witness statement by any preset date.

 

Regards

 

Andy