UK debt of non UK citizen living overseas

[idiom]

Hi to all,

 

it is my first post to this forum since and I would like to thank in advance for your help.

 

Recently, last January got myself in trouble with one of the Forex broker companies. The price on one of the pairs went down a lot and caused a lot of people to have negative balance on their account. I was one of the unfortunate ones, having woken up with -50k GBP on my trading balance (invested just few, since I don't have a lot of money). Next day the company went into insolvency due to poor risk management, etc... and huge negative balance (30+ million pounds) and a company hired by High Court of Justice have taken over to deal with the insolvency process. While most of the Forex companies are forgiving the negative balance, they say that they will not do that and everybody is expected to cover their balance.

 

They are still looking over all clients accounts and once they are done, they will send an email to everybody in the next few weeks, with their current balance, giving money to those that have positive accounts and asking to pay from others that have negative balance.

 

Now, I am not willing to give them full amount since I don't think it is only my problem, they should have reacted better as well, but their risk management were poor and now they are trying to put blame on customers. But, ...

 

 

After they sent an email that I should pay, I heard if I ignored it after two weeks they can sell my debt to a debt collectors agency. And I would like to try to avoid that.

What are my options?

To send an email that I disagree with their balance? Do I need to give some reasons, or simply saying I disagree is enough? In that case they have to take me to court to prove that negative balance is accurate, is that so?

 

Since I am not resident of the UK, but Slovakia, and I have never lived in the UK, the court they have to raise a complaint would be in the UK or in Slovakia?

 

As well, at the time of opening of my account I lived in the Middle East. Since they had their office over there, I was contacted my that office to sort out papers required for an account. In the end, I got my account with them without providing half of the required documents for opening an account. Is it a valid point to use that argument and claim that my contract and everything else (negative balance) are not valid, even though I traded with it (never withdrew any money from it though.), since the contractual requirement were not fulfilled at the first place.

Any advice is a great help.

 

Cheers,

idiom

[unclebulgaria67]

You need to look back at the exact terms of contract that you signed up for. Under what legal jurisdiction can the contract be enforced ? You need to find this out.

 

If you don't live in the UK, they cannot go to a UK court. They would have to go directly to a court in Slovakia and I am not sure this would be easy. If you don't tell them that you are not in the UK, they may try to gain a court judgement in your absence, using any UK address you may have provided.

 

If I were you, I would suggest that you write back by recorded post, confirming that you are not resident in the UK, but are resident in Slovakia. Also point out to them, that at the time of opening the account, you were a resident of x middle eastern country. Advise them that there were problems with the opening of the account and how it operated. You dispute the matter and will hold them to strict proof that there is any debt that legally exists. If you don't have the accounts full terms and conditions, ask them to supply a copy of those that were supplied when the account was opened.

 

I cannot see this being pursued, if you live in Slovakia and dispute it in writing. What you want to do, is avoid them going to court in another country and then trying to transfer to Slovakia. You can do this, by disputing the debt and saying that you are resident in Slovakia. Unless Slovakia has some agreement with the country where the debt was incured, I cannot see a Slovakian court being interested.

[idiom]

UncleB,

 

thank you very much for quick replay.

 

I never submitted any other address other than the Middle Eastern one, so they cannot send it somewhere in the UK and go to court behind my back. Basically, I have changed everything (job, country, phone...) since I opened that account except my private email account.

 

Regarding the contract, T&C were not part of it, the contract was just referring to the T&c. But the page that clearly said that people currently residing in the following countries need to submit minimum 3 out of 6 documents from the list was there and I have it. And they opened my account even though I provided only 1 documents from the list.

 

So, I think the best thing is to wait till they finish the process, then they will start sending emails to people demanding to pay whatever amount they will come with (since they said possible changes might occur, not for the better I reckon).

As soon I received an email, will replay asking to provide me the full details of what they think I own them, term and conditions that give them the right to claim the debt, deny any debt on my name, notify them that even though account was opened in the Middle East, I am no longer there but moved back to Slovakia. As well, will send all details about documents required but never submitted for account opening.

 

Does anybody know the process of debt selling to the debt agencies? How long they need to wait before selling my debt? If I deny it over email/letter, can they still sell it since they are hired by High Court of Justice, or they have to win a case on court before being able to sell it.

I would like to avoid that in any case.

 

Cheers

[unclebulgaria67]

They generally sell debts off in batches quite a long time after the debt is not paid. You could be waiting years before you are chased by debt collectors.

 

If they only had your middle east address and you are now in Slovakia, I would think they would have ZERO chance of enforcing the debt. But you need to dispute just in case they ever bothered to go to a court in Slovakia.

 

Whenever you write to these people chasing, never give them information or say anything that you don't need to. Just be straight to the point and NEVER admit to the debt. Don't it mention it as such. Ask them to prove their allegation, how the account was set up and run, as you believe mistakes have been made by them.

 

Another point to mention. Debt is considered criminal by many middle eastern countries and it is possible that you may be put on some list in countries in that area. You should consider this risk, if you ever look to travel back to the middle east or will transit an airport there to go to another destination. There have been people arrested at Dubai Airport, when visiting or just in transit to another destination, due to some debt that is listed in Dubai.

[oleg]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

I assume you are a Slovak national who was only temporarily resident in the ME. But your address there is the only one that you gave. And I presume it would gave been your ex-employer's P O Box. Is all that correct?

 

Which country was it? Does anyone there still handle your mail?

 

If so, they should keep an eye on it to check for any debt collection letters or, more importantly, letters from a court. However it is very unlikely that anything would happen. Debt collection agencies in most Arab countries deal only with debts incurred locally, even the DCAs which are local partnerships with foreign DCAs.

 

If I were in your position, I would do nothing at all at present. I would ignore all emails.

 

Was the document you supplied your passport or national identity card? Even if so, I would not worry if I were you.

 

If the forex company is British, debt in UK is a civil matter not criminal, so there are no official means - eg police - to find your Slovak address. It would to be done by private investigation , usually a tracing agency.

 

I really can't see this going anywhere beyond threat mails. It would be too much hassle with no guaranteed outcome at all.

 

As for your question about DCAs, mail can commence after a few weeks or after a long period of time. If you don't engage and settle, they can then use a court or sell to a debt purchaser, who could also try court. But the debtor can challenge by making the claimant prove the debt.

 

I honestly can't see the above happening. Even if they found your home address. Your case would be too complicated.

 

My advice is that you do nothing at present other than keep checking your mail and let us know if anything you receive gives you genuine cause for concernl.

 

Oleg

[idiom]

Thank you very much for a valuable information, will do as suggested if the worst comes to the worst.

Regarding the Middle East, I know their way of handling ceques or debt, even knew some people that were arrested 6 years after leaving the country for the first time because they didn't pay the last month mobile before leaving the country. Luckily, justa couple of hundered pounds and they were set free

But, this is not related to them whatsoever so they don't really care.

 

Thank yuo all very much. Will be updating as it goes, maybe it will help somebody else.

And the webpage really deserves to be donated, will do that ASAP

[idiom]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

I assume you are a Slovak national who was only temporarily resident in the ME. But your address there is the only one that you gave. And I presume it would gave been your ex-employer's P O Box. Is all that correct?

 

Which country was it? Does anyone there still handle your mail?

 

If so, they should keep an eye on it to check for any debt collection letters or, more importantly, letters from a court. However it is very unlikely that anything would happen. Debt collection agencies in most Arab countries deal only with debts incurred locally, even the DCAs which are local partnerships with foreign DCAs.

 

If I were in your position, I would do nothing at all at present. I would ignore all emails.

 

Was the document you supplied your passport or national identity card? Even if so, I would not worry if I were you.

 

If the forex company is British, debt in UK is a civil matter not criminal, so there are no official means - eg police - to find your Slovak address. It would to be done by private investigation , usually a tracing agency.

 

I really can't see this going anywhere beyond threat mails. It would be too much hassle with no guaranteed outcome at all.

 

As for your question about DCAs, mail can commence after a few weeks or after a long period of time. If you don't engage and settle, they can then use a court or sell to a debt purchaser, who could also try court. But the debtor can challenge by making the claimant prove the debt.

 

I honestly can't see the above happening. Even if they found your home address. Your case would be too complicated.

 

My advice is that you do nothing at present other than keep checking your mail and let us know if anything you receive gives you genuine cause for concernl.

 

Oleg

 

Tnx a lot Oleg.

I used to live in Dubai. They took my passport copy and company visa copy (the passport expired, have a new one one and visa is not valid any more). They never bothered taking my PO box, they just asked my building name and apt number, even though as per the contract they had to ask water and electricity bill and some other things to prove that I lived there. The whole process of an account opening was done very poorly, and they can't be right. And since they said they would use T&C to ask us to pay something that was mostly their fault, then I decided to fight back in the same way.

Anyway, they will contact me over the email and I will do what UB suggested. No admitting, asking all documents to be shown related to my contract and my transactions.

 

Thank you very much. Will be updating as it goes, maybe it will help somebody else.

[oleg]

I asked about the address only because many expats in countries like u a e supply a work p o box for contact purposes.

 

There is absolutely no need to write to them since they can do nothing to you but if you feel more comfortable that way, go ahead. The problem as I see it is that once you've opened the door, they are able to stick their foot in and it could become very tiresome indeed.

 

By the way, regarding being placed on an arrest list at gcc airports, this can only be done by local companies and govt depts reporting to the police, not foreign ones, and even then it is not always strictly observed. I was accused of a very very serious crime but returned to uae a few months later - after making some discrete enquiries.

 

Good luck to you if you intend to engage in correspondence. Just don't let it get out of hand. Hope it works out well for you.

 

Oleg

[unclebulgaria67]

Thank you very much for a valuable information, will do as suggested if the worst comes to the worst.

Regarding the Middle East, I know their way of handling ceques or debt, even knew some people that were arrested 6 years after leaving the country for the first time because they didn't pay the last month mobile before leaving the country. Luckily, justa couple of hundered pounds and they were set free

But, this is not related to them whatsoever so they don't really care.

 

Thank yuo all very much. Will be updating as it goes, maybe it will help somebody else.

And the webpage really deserves to be donated, will do that ASAP

 

If the debt was incurred in Dubai and they obtain a court judgement there, as it was the address used to set up the account, then you may be added to the list. This is why I have mentioned about not visiting middle eastern countries or transiting the area. I would not take the chance.

 

I would rather be safe than sorry, not just assuming that Dubai is only interested in debts owing to Dubai banks or people.