Natwest CCJ/CO for merged debts and post judgemental interest

[DuffNCustard]

then breathe easy because they've got more chance of collecting it than I have of sliding down a moonbeam -- oh dear how sad never mind. You have a CCJ that states how much you owe and at what rate your monthly payments are and it binds them as well as you.

[Baz1994]

then breathe easy because they've got more chance of collecting it than I have of sliding down a moonbeam -- oh dear how sad never mind. You have a CCJ that states how much you owe and at what rate your monthly payments are and it binds them as well as you.

 

Lol and thanks so much DuffNCustard.

 

It was worrying me and my OH discovering the added interest after CCJ/CO.

 

I will just keep to my repayment plan with the solicitor as agreed but I can also add that not long after the charge was made, the solicitor / CMS Telford contacted me about increasing my payments. Are the allowed to do this ? I have evidence in writing.

[DuffNCustard]

They can try - but they need to apply to the court. Contacting you and making such demands might be construed as harassment,

so log the details and file in your records just in case you feel like pursuing a complaint against them in the future.

 

 

Now have a brew and settle down with a nice cup of tea and enjoy shouting abuse at the politicians on the tele

[Baz1994]

They can try - but they need to apply to the court. Contacting you and making such demands might be construed as harassment,

so log the details and file in your records just in case you feel like pursuing a complaint against them in the future.

 

 

Now have a brew and settle down with a nice cup of tea and enjoy shouting abuse at the politicians on the tele

 

Ok DuffNCustard many thanks again for your time and comments.

 

Details all logged as they will be added to my diary of events that I have compiled.

 

Lol and will deffo have a nice cuppa but don't know about shouting abuse at Cameron and Co wasted breath as far as I'm concerned, all a bit of a pantomine to me

[tedney]

Hello Baz!

Just seen your thread here for first time! Just to say, my situation is vaguely similar, though I don't have a CCJ or CO. I have had interest added to an account too, without prior notification, and no statements either until an SAR was made. Strangely, my intrest charges stopped in 2010 too, last charge was for October 2010, when was your last interest charge?

 

Baz

Have a look at my thread here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266247-natwest-summons-for-joined-overdraft-and-loan

In particular, post number 22, hopefully copied here:

 

Section 86B(6) provides that a notice of sums in arrears under a fixed-sum credit agreement (a loan) or a consumer hire agreement must include a copy of the current arrears information sheet under section 86A, and section 86C(3) makes equivalent provision in relation to notices of sums in arrears under running-account credit agreements (a credit card).

 

This came into effect as of October 1st 2008.

 

If the creditor or owner fails to provide a notice of sums in arrears when required to do so, then during the period of his failure to provide the notice (i.e. from the date that it was required to be given until the end of the day on which it is eventually provided), he is not entitled to enforce the agreement. In addition the debtor or hirer is not liable to pay any interest that relates to the period of the creditor or owner’s failure.

Hope that helps.

t

[Baz1994]

Hello Baz!

Just seen your thread here for first time! Just to say, my situation is vaguely similar, though I don't have a CCJ or CO. I have had interest added to an account too, without prior notification, and no statements either until an SAR was made. Strangely, my intrest charges stopped in 2010 too, last charge was for October 2010, when was your last interest charge?

 

Hi again tedney, yes I am having a torrid time with this bank regarding SAR details and failure to comply.

 

Also when I ask various of questions, they totally ignore answering them in their response.

 

I had not received any statements from the bank since 2007/2008 just before CCJ/CO was pushed through. It was only when contacting the solicitor to whom I pay my agreed instalments to on behalf of their client requesting a transaction list of payments (all ok with them and no added interest) that they contacted the bank to send me statements.

 

When I received them (look as though they had been reconstructed) they had added quarterley interest up to September 2010, so the balance outstanding was more than my judgement amount. Therefore they should have been sending me annual statements at least but have had nothing since then. I don't really want to open a can of worms but as they have not fully complied, I believe the added debt would be unenforceable.

 

They had not even previously provided details or any bank account stuff as part of my Subject Access Request, even though I had requested it. Now I have found out that my account was downgraded in 2013 (from a different source) and yet again I have not received no notification?

 

Was yours in respect of a loan and overdraft ? And did yours get passed to CMS Telford ?

 

Baz

Have a look at my thread here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266247-natwest-summons-for-joined-overdraft-and-loan

In particular, post number 22, hopefully copied here:

 

Section 86B(6) provides that a notice of sums in arrears under a fixed-sum credit agreement (a loan) or a consumer hire agreement must include a copy of the current arrears information sheet under section 86A, and section 86C(3) makes equivalent provision in relation to notices of sums in arrears under running-account credit agreements (a credit card).

 

This came into effect as of October 1st 2008.

 

If the creditor or owner fails to provide a notice of sums in arrears when required to do so, then during the period of his failure to provide the notice (i.e. from the date that it was required to be given until the end of the day on which it is eventually provided), he is not entitled to enforce the agreement. In addition the debtor or hirer is not liable to pay any interest that relates to the period of the creditor or owner’s failure.

Hope that helps.

t

 

Sorry just saw this post aswell and believe that is correct as I have been informed. So personally they have not complied so I will just add details to my file and leave be.

 

Have you still got your loan credit agreement details ? If so does it say about adding contractual interest if defaulted ? I would be interested to know.

 

Cheers

 

Baz

[tedney]

1. Also when I ask various of questions, they totally ignore answering them in their response

 

2. I had not received any statements from the bank since 2007/2008.

 

3. Was yours in respect of a loan and overdraft ? And did yours get passed to CMS Telford ?

 

Hello Baz

1. Exactly my experience too! I keep perservering and eventually get them to comply!

 

2. Exactly the same for me.

 

3. 2 accounts 1 of each, both passed to CMS

 

HTH

t

 

Have you still got your loan credit agreement details ? If so does it say about adding contractual interest if defaulted ? I would be interested to know.

Yes, does state about adding interest at APR if in default, but agreement included PPI so APR possibly incorrect? Also has phrase to the effect that bank may waive conditions too!

HTH

t

[Baz1994]

Hello Baz

1. Exactly my experience too! I keep perservering and eventually get them to comply!

 

2. Exactly the same for me.

 

3. 2 accounts 1 of each, both passed to CMS

 

HTH

t

 

Snap then !

 

Regarding # 3 are you aware of a Router Account ?

 

Yes, does state about adding interest at APR if in default, but agreement included PPI so APR possibly incorrect? Also has phrase to the effect that bank may waive conditions too!

HTH

t

 

OK cheers again.

 

If you don't mind me asking.

 

1. Was it a packaged account ?

 

2.When was the loan taken out ?

 

3.Where on the agreement does it state adding interest at APR if in default ?

 

4. Do you know if you have another account number for CMS Telford ?

 

Cheers

 

Baz

[tedney]

OK cheers again.

 

If you don't mind me asking.

 

1. Was it a packaged account ?

 

2.When was the loan taken out ?

 

3.Where on the agreement does it state adding interest at APR if in default ?

 

4. Do you know if you have another account number for CMS Telford ?

 

Cheers

 

Baz

1. Not sure what you mean by packaged. Was a standalone account, not linked to anything else.

2.2005

3. Bottom of page, item 10b

4.No no other account number, at least they have not told me and I get no statements.

Is a router account when they create an account from exisating details? If so I do not have one, unless they are keeping it from me!

Cheers

[Baz1994]

1. Not sure what you mean by packaged. Was a standalone account, not linked to anything else.

2.2005

3. Bottom of page, item 10b

4.No no other account number, at least they have not told me and I get no statements.

Is a router account when they create an account from exisating details? If so I do not have one, unless they are keeping it from me!

Cheers

 

1. What I meant was a packaged account where you pay monthly fees for the privelige of having extra insurances etc similar to ppi being added ?

2. Ok mine was slightly earlier so may have been up-dated.

3.Mind you sure I found something confirming that I must pay interest at the rate described on each overdue sum from its due date to the date upon we receive payment (as well after as before judgement) I have no idea why it stopped in 2010 - T did you ask why ?

4.Yes you may need to ask and request an explanation as I believe they secretly amalgamate the two debts as one and add interest. With mine they turned an unsecured debt into a secured debt.

 

Sorry for further questions but do you have an agreed repayment plan with CMS ? Also are the statements that you have adding the quarterley interest only state your loan account number ? Have you received any statements for your bank account ?

 

Thanks again goodatresearch. I have now scanned edited Loan details and OD conditions back page. Is there anything missing advising PJI ?

 

can someone kindly confirm # 7 Interest details on loan agreement imply that the default amount will incur quarterley APR interest (as well after as before judgement) ?

 

And why did it stop being applied in September 2010 ?

[tedney]

1. What I meant was a packaged account where you pay monthly fees for the privelige of having extra insurances etc similar to ppi being added ?

2. Ok mine was slightly earlier so may have been up-dated.

3.Mind you sure I found something confirming that I must pay interest at the rate described on each overdue sum from its due date to the date upon we receive payment (as well after as before judgement) I have no idea why it stopped in 2010 - T did you ask why ?

4.Yes you may need to ask and request an explanation as I believe they secretly amalgamate the two debts as one and add interest. With mine they turned an unsecured debt into a secured debt.

 

Sorry for further questions but do you have an agreed repayment plan with CMS ? Also are the statements that you have adding the quarterley interest only state your loan account number ? Have you received any statements for your bank account ?

 

1. No not packaged account, current account and loan account seperate.

2. OK

3. Not asked why stopped. Interest being added to current account, then stopped, not loan account.

4. Definitely separate accounts, as per the statements now provided.

Agreed payment plan in place. monthly interest was added to current account and then stopped in 2010. I think there may be some significance in the September/October cessation of interest for our accounts? Annual statements received for loan account, no statements (for approx 8 years) until SAR for current bank account.

[Baz1994]

1. No not packaged account, current account and loan account seperate.

2. OK

3. Not asked why stopped. Interest being added to current account, then stopped, not loan account.

4. Definitely separate accounts, as per the statements now provided.

Agreed payment plan in place. monthly interest was added to current account and then stopped in 2010. I think there may be some significance in the September/October cessation of interest for our accounts? Annual statements received for loan account, no statements (for approx 8 years) until SAR for current bank account.

 

Thanks again for your reply and seems slightly different to mine.

 

1. Mine was a packaged account in which was downgraded in November 2013 (No details).

2.May have found something on my agreement as previously quoted but may need confirming that this is correct re post judgement interest.

3.Quarterley interest was added to my loan account until 2010 but no further statements since 2007 regarding my current / OD account ? So you are still incurring quarterley interest on your current account ?

4.OK. I have never received any annual statements for both accounts in which I am sure should have been complied with. Did you send your SAR to Edinburgh ?

 

But I am sure I have probably been incurring interest on my current / OD account without my knowledge

[tedney]

Thanks again for your reply and seems slightly different to mine.

 

2.May have found something on my agreement as previously quoted but may need confirming that this is correct re post judgement interest.

3.Quarterley interest was added to my loan account until 2010 but no further statements since 2007 regarding my current / OD account ? So you are still incurring quarterley interest on your current account ?

4.OK. I have never received any annual statements for both accounts in which I am sure should have been complied with. Did you send your SAR to Edinburgh ?

 

But I am sure I have probably been incurring interest on my current / OD account without my knowledge

 

2. My understanding is that post judgment interest has to be shown on court judgment, otherwise they cannot add. I maybe wrong here, perhaps a.n.other CAG person could confirm?

3. No, interest stopped in October 2010 on my current account, I only found this out for sure when I received statements in 2015! I guessed this is what happened before by regularly checking on my CRA files, which, of course, stopped reporting after 6 years from default in 2007.

4. Yes, my SAR was sent to Edinburgh.

Have you checked your CRA files to see if balances are correct/increasing etc.?

[Baz1994]

2. My understanding is that post judgment interest has to be shown on court judgment, otherwise they cannot add. I maybe wrong here, perhaps a.n.other CAG person could confirm?

3. No, interest stopped in October 2010 on my current account, I only found this out for sure when I received statements in 2015! I guessed this is what happened before by regularly checking on my CRA files, which, of course, stopped reporting after 6 years from default in 2007.

4. Yes, my SAR was sent to Edinburgh.

Have you checked your CRA files to see if balances are correct/increasing etc.?

 

My POC details stated stat 8% interest up to judgement.

 

Well I have not received any statements for my current account since 2008 but on checking my last CRA file before it dropped off in 2012 I see that the debt has increased

 

The loan balance includes the quarterley interest in which stopped in Sept 2010 and ties up with what is on the old statements that I had but again I have never received an annual statement.

 

if you take the first option and 'win'

 

 

the other issues like the mis-selling p'haps become irrelevant?

 

 

dx

 

Further to your comments dx and after some additional investigations, if I decide to submit a formal complaint regarding irresponsible lending etc shall I include that I have never received any annual statements or any notice sums of arrears or leave well alone for now ?

[Guest]

can someone kindly confirm # 7 Interest details on loan agreement imply that the default amount will incur quarterley APR interest (as well after as before judgement) ?

 

And why did it stop being applied in September 2010 ?

 

for ref post #46 attachments clause 7. this bit? '.....You must also pay interest at the rate described overleaf on each overdue sum from its due date to the date upon which we receive payment (as well after as before judgement)..'

 

could be?

 

but again, if deemed so, wld need the required statements, and a separate claim and judgment, to be enforceable.

[Baz1994]

for ref post #46 attachments clause 7. this bit? '.....You must also pay interest at the rate described overleaf on each overdue sum from its due date to the date upon which we receive payment (as well after as before judgement)..'

 

could be?

 

but again, if deemed so, wld need the required statements, and a separate claim and judgment, to be enforceable.

 

Thank-you again Ford just needed clarity again and want to cover all angles because I do not trust the bank one bit especially CMS.

[Guest]

no worries. i missed that sneaky clause bit when looking through. cld well be a PJCI clause?

see what the guys say.

[Baz1994]

no worries. i missed that sneaky clause bit when looking through. cld well be a PJCI clause?

see what the guys say.

 

Yes but really not clear so any further comments would be appreciated.

 

I have been scrutinising everything again and only just recently noticed it. There is nothing on my OD agreement to that effect yet on checking an old CRA file it seems that they have also been adding interest to that account.

 

But as said before no bank statements since 2008 for the OD account and in which was apparently upgraded in Nov 2013 without my knowledge. Also no yearly statements direct from the bank regarding my loan account.

[Guest]

striking similarity to the term in that First National case mentioned in the linked thread i posted prior. ie para 2 in the judgment;

 

'....Interest on the amount which becomes payable shall be charged in accordance with Condition 4, at the rate stated in paragraph D overleaf (subject to variation) until payment after as well as before any judgement (such obligation to be independent of and not to merge with the judgement)."

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200102/ldjudgmt/jd011025/fair-1.htm

 

 

but, note the important bit in brackets re not merging with the judgment. is accepted cant be in the original judgment and wld need a separate judgment.

[Baz1994]

Cheers Ford.

 

So therefore they can keep increasing the debt ?

 

Whatabout the lack of statements, notice of arrears, non-advice of downgraded account etc. Do I have a case for non-compliance ?

[tedney]

My POC details stated stat 8% interest up to judgement.

 

Well I have not received any statements for my current account since 2008 but on checking my last CRA file before it dropped off in 2012 I see that the debt has increased

 

The loan balance includes the quarterley interest in which stopped in Sept 2010 and ties up with what is on the old statements that I had but again I have never received an annual statement.

 

Morning Baz

AFAIK I think that the actual judgment, not the POC has to refer to interest to allow interest to be charged on the amount the judgment was for. No mention = unable to charge/collect interest on the judgment amount. I do not have a CCJ so I cannot verify that, but perhaps someone else with more knowledge may be able to.

I think also that my comments on HPMums thread about unenforceable interest/charges if no statements/balance confirmations are received apply too. Again someone with more knowledge could perhaps verify this.

HTH

t

[Guest]

As before, the required interest statements/notices wld be required. Then a separate action. to enforce.

[DuffNCustard]

National debtline has some good info:-

 

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/18%20EW%20County%20court%20-%20interest%20charges/Default.aspx

 

Plus the creditor MUST send you at least one statement a year. They cannot back-date statements either

[Baz1994]

National debtline has some good info:-

 

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/18%20EW%20County%20court%20-%20interest%20charges/Default.aspx

 

Plus the creditor MUST send you at least one statement a year. They cannot back-date statements either

 

Thank-you so much for all your replies and much appreciated.

 

I will keep you posted of any further developements and in the meantime I will keep paying my arranged plan.

[Guest]

and keep the lack of the required PJCI statements/notices (am sure more than 1 a year is required) close to yr chest