Fighting an insurance claim

[invmatt]

In March last year I accidentally tapped the rear end of a car in front of me.

 

 

 

 

In short we were both at a roundabout stationary, she set off on to the now empty roundabout, I looked to the right to see if it was still clear and started to lift my clutch, as I glanced back I noticed she had stopped half way onto it and bumpers touched - no more than 3-5mph if that.

 

Now I know it was stupid, should have checked properly she had gone however I'm still confused why she decided to stop when it was empty.

.. anyway that's beyond the point.

 

I received a letter from the 'no win no fee' injury solicitors as she's 1) claiming whiplash and 2) damage to the car.

 

Damage to the car is impossible, I also have photographic proof that no damage to either car happened

(the claimant didn't see me take a photo of her car so they're none the wiser at the moment),

it was so low impact it's also impossible for any damage to have occurred.

 

 

They've also stated that I shoved her in to the middle of the roundabout which is all out lies,

the amount of force needed to shove a stationary car (with either the hand or foot brake on)

would cause significant damage to both cars - probably in excess of 20-30mph to move it far enough.

 

It also took the claimant over 6 months to start the claim against me which is quite odd.

 

what's the best way to fight this?

 

 

I'm happy to drag them through the courts if need be as it seems to be quite fraudulent.

[Aretnap]

Pass it on to your insurance company (the one you were with at the time) and tell them what you've posted above.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

You hit another car. Its easy to scratch a number which can result in bills of £500-£1000. Either for repainting or replacement.

 

Pushing someone in the back with your hand is enough to cause whiplash, so hitting a stationary car at 3-5 mph is enough.

You could also have pushed the bumper in and its flexed back with no obvious damage,

but you might have hit metal work or some sort of body work underneath.

Doesn't take much to cause significant damage to a car.

 

You hit something at 3-5 mph in vehicle weighing 1.5 ton. Its easily enough to move her car.

Brakes are not on or off, they are gradual, so enough braking force to stop her moving wont be enough to stop you pushing her.

 

Like aretnap sais, time to pass it on to your insurance company now. Send any pics you have with it.

[ericsbrother]

I disagree that hitting another car at that speed is enough to cause whiplash,

the elastic deformation of the bumpers is designed to prevent such things,

likewise the seats etc and there has never been a proven case to support a claim but that does not stop them.

 

 

I have posted on this before,

you need to look at the Young's elastic Modulus of the components and you will realise that the claim

and assertions about unseen damage are utter b0880cks.

 

 

However, the law does not recognise that physics and science actually exist so the arguments must be put forward.

 

 

This is best done by the insurance company if they wish to as to try and do it on your own,

even with expert witnesses is a risky enterprise.

 

Your photos will help you but are not the be-all and end-all.

[CrappoMan]

You really need to pass it on to your insurance company, that is what they are there for, but don't expect them to fight it. They will more than likely settle.

 

As you have a set of photos, it would be interesting to see what photographic evidence her solicitors are using. If her photos show the car in a much worse state than your photos, it might be worth fighting it.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Modules on the car are meant to absorb the damage before the chassis takes the brunt. The elasticity doesn't stop damage. A bump like that can snap a clip or something similar on the bumper or anywhere for that matter which might then require a new bumper. Claimant might not have known that until someone spotted it from under the car.

 

I agree, this claim sounds very suspect, but all I can advise is the op give it all to the insurance and let them deal with it. End all of it is that you went into the claimant, you can only claim that you were doing 3/4/5 mph but she is saying more. Its now down to who the insurance to decide who to believe.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Oh, and I have seen the damage caused to a car with a tow bar from a 5 mph shunt. It was a van with a gps/cctv(showed the speed and cctv showed the cars at a junction) that drove into the back of the car. The tow bar rail pulled in the rear edges of the chassis meaning the chassis had to go on a jig to straighten it. To the tune of £1000. No visible damage except the tow bar had moved in an inch.

[invmatt]

Well there were no tow bars and a rolling car touching number plates isn't enough to cause damage, they'd either be stress damage to the paint work or cracks as it's only plastic if it was an impact.

 

It's also impossible to do more than a few mph when you're both stationary (I'm not in a high powered car that's able to floor it from the off!).

 

I'll be passing the details on to the insurance company this weekend as they close at 5pm (stupid time when people work) with all the evidence I have.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

If you are stationary its impossible to do any speed. Stationary means stopped. Regardless of what you feel is the case, pass it on to the insurance company to deal with. Lets hope they fight your corner for you.

[Conniff]

It probably took a month because that was the time it took some call center to find her by trial and error dialling.

 

 

It sounds very much to me as if grumpy is one of those solicitors.

[heliosuk]

The spped you claim you were doing is more than enough to cause a whiplash injury and damage the car.

 

 

As has been pointed out, the bumper cover is flexible and will rebound into shape at that speed

but the energy of the collision is absorbed through the metal insert and is transmitted into the body shell

which in turn is designed to deform to dissipate the energy.

 

 

So whilst from the outward view of no damage, when inspected internally there could be substantial damage.

Not hard to work out either and if her brakes were on this just adds to the problem.

 

Leave it to the insurers to sort out would be my advice and by the way,

there is no excuse for running into the back of someone. Either too close or too fast.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

It probably took a month because that was the time it took some call center to find her by trial and error dialling.

 

 

 

 

 

It sounds very much to me as if grumpy is one of those solicitors.

 

Not at all. I have just been in the op's shoes and been f****d over. Trying to tell it how it is.

[Ganymede]

I disagree that hitting another car at that speed is enough to cause whiplash

Congratulations on qualifying as a doctor. You didn't tell us you were reading medicine...

[invmatt]

Insurance company will be fighting the claim as they've noticed inconsistent evidence provided by the claimant.

[Ganymede]

I doubt they'll fight it very far.

[heliosuk]

I doubt it also Ganymede.

Got to admit though it's a bit of a lost cause...I mean running into the back of someone on a roundabout is about as lame an excuse of "the tree jumped out at me".

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Yes, no matter what excuses are made, he went into the back of her. I can't see how the insurance will fight it.

They may just be arguing the costs, rather than the claim.

That said, maybe she claims something that is outright proved as a lie by the op's pictures.

[ericsbrother]

Physics, applied mechanics and materials science. Something I worked in for 30+ years including providing evidence at 2 public enquiries.

Congratulations on qualifying as a doctor. You didn't tell us you were reading medicine...

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Physics, applied mechanics and materials science. Something I worked in for 30+ years including providing evidence at 2 public enquiries.

 

Doesn't make you a doctor of medicine though.

 

Some people would require a good shunt to have an injury. Others, particularly the older person, would require a lot less. Other factors may contribute, for instance someone who trains in a gyn would have a far higher tolerance to muscle stretch and reflex injuries than someone that doesn't train. How about a prior injury being aggravated further?

[Ganymede]

Physics, applied mechanics and materials science. Something I worked in for 30+ years including providing evidence at 2 public enquiries.

Irrelevant.

[ericsbrother]

not irrelevant, if the energy of the impact wasnt enough to cause a permanent deformation of the bumper, cracking of number plate etc then due to the design of the vehicle's impact zones none of that energy will have passed through to the people sitting in the vehicle. If none of the energy was transmitted to the driver they cant have had whiplash.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Ok.

Age of the vehicles?(this will determine how much of a crumple/impact zone the vehicle has)

 

Age of the driver?(for reasons stated in my earlier post)

 

Age of the car that hit the claimants car?

 

Road conditions?

 

Also worth noting that I have dealt with someone recently who had whiplash in an accident. Their rear near side quarter was nudged but it left no mark. It was enough for the car to be turned and slide sideways on wet/icy road and then suddenly stop which caused a side impact whiplash to the left of the claimants neck radiating down into her shoulder. This was done at only a few miles an hour.

 

Your claim that without damage to the vehicle, that no injury could have been cause is utter horned beast poo.

[heliosuk]

not irrelevant, if the energy of the impact wasnt enough to cause a permanent deformation of the bumper, cracking of number plate etc then due to the design of the vehicle's impact zones none of that energy will have passed through to the people sitting in the vehicle. If none of the energy was transmitted to the driver they cant have had whiplash.

 

 

Rubbish, total rubbish......and believe me I am an expert in these things!!

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Rubbish, total rubbish......and believe me I am an expert in these things!!

 

Your a binman?

[heliosuk]

Your a binman?

 

 

 

Lol, given the amount of rubbish written on here one might as well be.