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    • If anybody has any advice here, it would be greatly appreciated, I already suffer with pre-existing disabilities & have struggled with this so far. 
    • so return of goods order etc etc read upload  scan pages to jpg, redact in mspaint. the convert to and merge to one mass PDF  read upload and use the online listed sites for all 3 stages. do you want to keep the car? i will guess this was a manual paper claimform direct from the co.court or was it org sent from salford bulk processing and has just got reaq ssigned?      
    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
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23 months-constructive dismissal?


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Hi all!

I'll try and keep this short!

 

 

Basically, I started my job 23 months ago.

At first all was fine (isn't it always?)

 

 

However, over time, various issues relating to the general management of the company, mid-management appointments, etc, started to cause me concern.

 

 

Over the last year I have felt it necessary to point out certain things, to both fellow employees and my superiors.

Even though this has been very minor, and just comments made, I think they now see me as "disruptive", maybe?

 

 

Anyway, to the point.

In mid December, a guy who was supposed to be the manager of the project I'm working on was basically wasting my time (again!).

I was flustered, under pressure, etc, and, being honest, I was exasperated by him, so I told him to "f-off". He told me "you f-off", to which I responded "f-off back to Iran".

 

 

Now 20 minutes earlier, me and a colleague had been discussing the guys unsuitability for the position, and how he was basically an Iranian national who was (so we've been led to believe) a journalist / blogger. Not an engineer.

 

 

I was basically saying to him to "get out of my hair and go back to what you are best at", sort-of-thing.

 

 

He walked out of the room and there were no further exchanges.

A few days later, I was given a letter saying that there will be a disciplinary hearing early in the new year, about my racist remark.

 

 

Immediately following this, I went to see the guy, asked if he had lodged an official complaint (he hadn't, apparently), we shook hand, we're fine with each other, and have moved on.

 

 

The management (fyi, the dad is the owner, his partner is another director, and his daughter, in her mid 20-s, with no qualifications/ workplace / managerial experience, is a director and my immediate boss, I think?) have decided to go for the full disciplinary hearing route.

As there have been several incidents between other staff, including the senior management, including what could be classed as violent conduct, and no hearings have been deemed necessary for those, I feel I am being victimised.

 

 

The "proper" route to sort the issue would obviously have been to sit myself down with the daughter and the Iranian guy, talk through the events, stress that my comment was not acceptable, etc, made sure that the two of us were cool, and that there would be no repeat, and move on.....

 

 

All very simple, informal.

This process was not followed, however, so basically I think they don't want me there anymore (for whatever reasons). The project has been completed: they could have made me redundant instead?

 

 

My feeling is that they are going to sack me next week, and basically, do I have any rights?

I mean, it is blatantly obvious that they are trying to get me out, and the fact they have made me feel as unwelcome as possible in the lead-up to xmas, and yesterday suspended me on full pay till the hearing on Friday just reinforced this.

 

 

The shop floor culture is one where swearing is commonplace (the daughter is probably the worst offender), so it cannot be said there is "zero tolerance", etc.

 

 

I have had no informal or formal meetings about racism, my general performance, insubordination, etc, during my time there.

 

 

They may issue me with a written / final written warning (which I could accept), but I feel they're going to fire me.

Do you think this is right, can they get away with it, and what can I do about it if they Do fire me.

 

 

Sorry for going on, but its a crappy situation..

 

 

Any advise welcomed.

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They could dismiss you on racism alone. You've been there less than 24 months do they could dismiss you for any reason as long as it wasn't discriminatory.

 

Your suspension right now is common for an investigation period. I would suggest taking this time to get your story in order and when you get to the meeting, LISTEN. Don't interrupt, don't argue. You'll have your time to give your side of the story as well.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

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Just to clarify: I totally accept that my comment was out of order.

I have owned it, apologised to the guy, face-to-face. He has accepted the apology and in the week since the event, we worked together fine.

 

 

I am white, not a racist, homophobe, etc.

My best mate of 25 years is of African descent, so I have no problems with race, creed, colour, etc.

 

 

I have worked in the workplace for over 25 years, never had a complaint lodged against me, any disciplinary hearings, etc during all that time.

I find it strange that my employers are focussing so hard on this minor issue, rather than the positives that I bring to the company.

 

 

The very qualities upon which they based their decision to hire me in the first place, in fact....? ;-)

 

 

The situation stinks, quite frankly!

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Yeah. Please don't try and make excuses. Especially to your employer. You said a racist comment plain and simple. It doesn't matter if you have an African friend or are married to a tribal dancer from Botswana. You still said the racist comment which is why they are taking action.

 

Your colleague might have forgiven you for it, but your employer hasn't and has a reputation to maintain. If they let you get away unpunished. Then that sets a precident and other workers would say they can say it too.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Sounds like you enjoy complaining about everything imho. You seem to think that no one else but you is qualified to do the role. I.e, directors are just brother so just family and no skills, daughter has no skills, manager is Iranian. The directors own the company, and as such, can run it any way they like and you need to lump it or move on.

 

I'm sorry, but it sounds like sour grapes to me. You stuck your head above the parapet for no real reason other than to complain and it got targeted.

 

That's the way life works.

 

As said, within twenty four months, you have very little protection anyway and they could just ask you to leave for lots of reasons. Certainly cant see any reason why they would pay you off.

 

I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but your comments lead me to believe you are a habitual complainer and as such, I wouldn't tolerate you in my team either.

 

The racist comment would normally lead to an instant dismissal for a full time over 24 month employee anyway.

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I have OWNED it.....lets make that clear!

 

 

I don't enjoy complaining at all..in fact it is really annoying I feel the need to raise points in the first place.

 

 

Very little protection, yes...but some, maybe?

 

 

THATS what I'm here to find out.

 

 

I did try to PM renegadeimp, but due to post count was unable to. Heres what I tried to PM:

Thanks for your reply.

 

 

"This is a quite complex situation: I had to leave LOTS out, as I would take a LOT of room to tell the whole story.

 

 

The daughter, for instance regularly refers to English guys as "fat, ugly and stupid". She being Danish, and clearly superior to us mere English..!? ;-)

 

She first said this to myself and another, more portly, guy. We both saw the funny side of it, but we COULD have taken it as racial abuse / stereotyping.

 

 

Also, the Sales manager regularly makes references to Asian girls, saying he should bring a few back in his suitcase (as sex slaves, I assume?), and makes frequent refs to lady-boys (another stereotype).

 

 

Surely, If they are planning on throwing the book at me, then this kind of behaviour must also cease immediately.

This makes me think about discrimination / inconsistency. etc, against myself, as all this has, apparently, been deemed acceptable in the past?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure..something was said...

 

 

But its the discrimination against me that is the point: inconsistency in procedures, etc.

Daughter told me yesterday, for instance, that the "employee handbook" was "just a guideline" and "not law".

 

 

Surely the document they put together to outline the company policies IS what guidelines they profess to follow? Otherwise, what's the point?

 

 

Yet, I have been through the handbook, and certain procedures have clearly not been followed in the past.

 

 

Hence the discrimination.

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Yeah. Please don't try and make excuses. Especially to your employer. You said a racist comment plain and simple. It doesn't matter if you have an African friend or are married to a tribal dancer from Botswana. You still said the racist comment which is why they are taking action.

 

Your colleague might have forgiven you for it, but your employer hasn't and has a reputation to maintain. If they let you get away unpunished. Then that sets a precident and other workers would say they can say it too.

 

 

I don't expect to get away unpunished: Its just the manipulation / constructive nature of the situation that seems unjust.

 

 

I mean, if I had got up, chinned the guy in front of witnesses, then fine: instant dismissal..no argument!

 

 

But other blatant "gross misconduct" events have occurred and gone unpunished.

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"Yeah. Please don't try and make excuses. Especially to your employer. You said a racist comment plain and simple. It doesn't matter if you have an African friend or are married to a tribal dancer from Botswana. You still said the racist comment which is why they are taking action."

 

 

 

 

 

I MIGHT be married to a Korean girl though.... ;-)

(I'm not..but you get the point?)

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Very little protection, yes...but some, maybe?

 

Hello there. I expect more of the forum guys will be along over the course of the day with views for you. As Renegade has already said, with under 24 months' service, you can be fired for no reason.

 

It could be that you have an angle with the discrimination aspect, let's see what others think.

 

As an aside, if this company is so poisonous, you might be happier elsewhere.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I think that I would feel justly treated to receive a written warning.

Based on the way they have handled (or not) events in the past, that would still be a little harsh...but acceptable, I suppose.

 

 

I mean, I did say what I said, it was out of order, and I won't do it again.

 

 

But other's practices will need to come into line also, otherwise it will be just me that has taken any flack.

It should be a new line in the sand, applicable to all, not just me being made an example of?

 

 

It seems clear they are taking this chance to get rid of me, but are being mighty inconsistent in their handling of the situation.

Could have been put to bed informally in 5 minutes behind closed doors by an experienced manager......

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Regardless of length of service, you made a racist comment to a colleague. You admitted making the comment. It's gross misconduct, which means you could lawfully be summarily dismissed.

 

Sorry to be doom and gloom, and I could go on for hours about the legalities, but the chances of a written warning within two years service for a gross misconduct offence are pretty slim, in my view.

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basically a written warning MIGHT happen, but you need to go in with the attitude that you will be dismissed, and have a story that shows this was a one off, spur of the moment thing and wasnt thought out. But you will have trouble with that. Why? because you said:

 

I was flustered, under pressure, etc, and, being honest, I was exasperated by him, so I told him to "f-off". He told me "you f-off", to which I responded "f-off back to Iran".

 

So you intentionally made the racist comment. It wasnt an accident, it wasnt a spur of the moment thing. You knew he was iranian, you made the racist comment. I'm not trying to belittle you, but every disciplinary is seen on its own merits, but they have to be fair towards everyone in the company. Like i said, if they let you get away with it with a slap on the wrist, then it opens the doors for everyone to make comments claiming they were under pressure and stress.

 

 

Then again, they might see it as an accident, and youll just recieve a warning. But i would personally go to the meeting myself with the knowledge that dismissal is very likely for this, and it would be your job to mitigate it and be truthful. NOT to make excuses or say others have said so and so.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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I have to say I was surprised when I read of your length of work experience and by implication, age.

 

Because your actions and now attitude towards what was done and what is happening sound more like those of a stroppy teenager.

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Let's stop the abuse towards the op now. He knows he was wrong and his employer is disciplining him for it. He needs advice on mitigating the outcome.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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There is a 2-year continuous service requirement to claim unfair dismissal (this concept includes constructive dismissal). You can count your notice period towards the time limit.

 

 

There is no time limit for discrimination. However discrimination has a very narrow legal meaning and only means discrimination against someone because of a protected characteristic such as race/gender/age. General unfair treatment and failure to follow procedures does not count as discrimination under the technical legal meaning of the word.

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Thanks for all your replies!

 

 

They have confirmed my suspicions: I'm 99% sure I'm out, and have maybe even already found another job.

 

 

I have obviously given them the opportunity to get rid of me: as a I said, there are a lot of other political things going on behind the scenes, and you only really have the part of the story concerning the alleged racist remark / disciplinary action.

 

 

I cannot help but wonder what their actions would have been if I had not made the remark?

They would still want me out, and the 2 year mark is looming....

 

 

Anyway, I'm obviously better off out of the sh*tty working environment, and sooner rather than later is a good thing, too....

 

 

Life's too short to dwell: I'm smug in the knowledge that all the issues the company has will remain there for years to come...

 

 

I'm just glad they won't be my problem....! :-)

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As an aside, I have another dilemma....!

 

 

Do I go through with the hearing on the off chance that I only get a FWW, or should I simply go in and hand in my resignation with immediate effect?

 

 

If I do that, at least they don't get the satisfaction of firing me!

 

 

But they might not be going to anyway....they MIGHT (and its a small might) just be hoping to scare me into toeing the line, as apparently, they have in the past with numerous employees.

Control / intimidation seems to be very important to them.

 

 

As I say, looking at the big picture, I'm better off out of it, but there IS the "self-respect" factor to consider, too?

 

 

Tricky one?

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If you have another job to go to then in the circumstances Id probably be inclined to resign. Unfortunately it doesn't stop them giving you a negative reference though, saying you resigned whilst under suspicion of gross misconduct... Nor does it stop them taking disciplinary action during your notice period and firing you anyway!

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As you are undergoing the disciplinary process they have the right to refuse your resignation till the outcome which if dismissal renders resignation a mute point.

 

Bearing in mind the seriousness of the charge they may choose to follow through to complete dismissal in order to make sure they remain above board concerned the single equality act.

 

Go the the hearing imo see it through.

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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I see 2 problems with this thread:

 

 

1 - As the OP has less than 24 months service, the employer doesn't need to initiate any disciplinary process, they can be terminated at any time for no reason.

 

 

2 - If the employer wants to take the disciplinary process to the end and refuse resignation, they risk the OP dragging the process out and taking it over the 24 month threshold.

 

 

The employers actions dont make sense.

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If 2 happens, the only recourse for the OP is unlawful or unfair dismissal.

Considering the nature of the case and whats said so far, the company are holding all the cards

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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As you are undergoing the disciplinary process they have the right to refuse your resignation till the outcome which if dismissal renders resignation a mute point.

 

Bearing in mind the seriousness of the charge they may choose to follow through to complete dismissal in order to make sure they remain above board concerned the single equality act.

 

Go the the hearing imo see it through.

 

An employer cannot refuse a resignation.

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