HSBC Charges Reclaim HELP please **SETTLED**

[HP Mum]

Reply....

They are looking into my complaint ...

[theoldrouge]

You normally receive a letter from Mike T Walker saying they will be looking into your complaint(head of complaints centre of excellence

 

Your actual reply will then take approx 2to 3 weeks

[HP Mum]

Think he must be on holiday .....

different bloke for me

 

 

Customer Care Team are looking into the matter

[theoldrouge]

Good,at least you know it is being dealt with

[HP Mum]

I have had a reply.

 

 

Firstly - they don't retain details for more than 6y as time-banned under Limitations Act '80.

(Shame - I have kept them!!).

 

 

Then they say they have looked at card charges for last 6y and advise the late payment charges were applied correctly....

 

 

They further state:

" issues relating to level, fairness or lawfulness of bank charges have been the subject of legal proceedings between banks and OFT which started in mid 07.

These legal proceedings have now ended, with the Court confirming that the bank charges aren't capable of amounting to penalties at common law and that the level of them cant be assessed for fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regs.

An OFT ruling in April 06 stated that credit card fees should not exceed £12/fee.

We confirm that the fees applied to your card have not exceeded £12 [(they did before the 6y)]

As the fees that were applied to your card were applied correctly, I regret that we are unable to agree to your request to refund any fees...."

Then they continue:

"Re info that has been shared with the CRA: they are unable to amend the info that was "correctly" shared with the CRA. They have written to me before and stand by their decisions / actions..."

 

 

They then say:

"they don't have the original T&Cs as it was opened more than 6y ago. They say the continued use of my account constitutes my agreement to their t&cs...."

(I have not used the card for many, many years - only been reducing the balance - so does that constitute an agreement to their t&cs????!!!!!)

 

 

They say I can write to OFT within 6m.

 

 

SO - is this a stereotypical reply ?

Are they correct?

 

 

Be good to have some feedback on this and next steps....

[HP Mum]

** UPDATE ** I have received an OFFER letter from Customer Services.

 

Firstly they state they think their charges are fair and reasonable.

They then refer to the 06 OFT published findings

"from its enquiry into default charges on credit cards, hsbc carefully considered the OFT's publication and altho' we do not accept its findings,

the OFT's investigation did lead to a change in market practices and hsbc decided, for commercial reasons

and in the interests of customers, to reduce its credit card default charges.

These charges do not affect charges that had already been applied."

 

They continue to state that:

"I am a valued customer of the bank (hmmm) and they would like to make a goodwill payment to me of £x,

which represents a 100% reduction of the charges payable, including interest at the contractual rate.

 

The payment is being offered on the basis that I agree not to make any further claims or take legal action on this matter.

 

The gesture is without prejudice to our right to impose and recover default charges in the future"

 

They then continue to state that

" their offer calculates contractual interest to date; that my debt was passed to Internal Collections mid 12; Interest and other charges ceased from this date"

 

They itemise charges.

They list all default charges applied, that they can find.

 

However, they state they only retain statements for 7y.

So their statements go back to Dec 08.

 

I have all statements form opening the account and my claim for CI is from 05.

 

Furthermore - they state their statements confirm where payments have been late or not received.

And any adverse data registered against my Credit File will be an accurate reflection of my payment history and account status.

Thus they see NO reason to remove any info they have registered.

 

SO here's the thing:

From 05 to now, Dec 15, their charges amount to £400+

my charges reclaim & CI claim amounts to £3220+

They have offered me £800+

They will not remove my bad credit rating

They want me to sign docs to prevent me taking any further legal action against them

Their statements start end 08

My claim refers back to mid 05.

The £ amount of 05 to end 08 is £2300+

 

I have read some of the other Reclaim threads and seen that most people are advised to reject the Bank's first offers.

 

What should I do now?

 

This is an interesting development for me.

I thought they were ignoring me (as Creation seem to be doing on my other thread!!)

[dx100uk]

reject it

and clearly state you have sent then info back to 2005

 

 

the oft decision did not say they were fair even if under £12 , but simply wouldn't investigate if under £12.

[HP Mum]

Thanks

Is there a good template rejection letter lurking somewhere here in the library?

 

ps - most of their charges were £20

[HP Mum]

Do you think something like this will do:

 

 

Dear Sirs

I refer to your letter of x date offering to settle my claim at a reduced figure of £xx.

Whilst I appreciate your offer, the amount falls well-short of what I am claiming.

I have ALL statements and have already provided H with the charges H imposed in 05. H's claim to have statements dating back only to December 08 is irrelevant in this instance.

In order to assist you and to bring this matter to a satisfactory conclusion, I have attached an up to date SofC for your further consideration.

I calculate that H have taken £x in charges.

I am now claiming and amount of restitutionary interest of £xxx - A total claim of £xxx.

With regards to charges being more than 6 years old I refer back to S32 (1)© Limitations Act 1980, Kleinwort Benson-v-Lincoln City Council.

If Court Action is needed I will seek to rely on this.

I decline your offer and I look forward to hear back from you within the next 7 days.

Yours

[HP Mum]

Just to be clear - my alleged debt to H is apx £300. Their penalty charges amount to £400.

So their "kind" offer only amounts to £100 above the combined alleged debt & their imposed charges.

It does not take into account any compound interest over a 10y period.

[HP Mum]

didn't really think through my last post...bit silly.

 

I owe H apx 300;

they owe me charges of apx 400.

 

 

So in essence H owes 100, but with the CI over 10y it amounts to H owing me much, much more.

 

Their offer of 800, although 700 more than they owe me, without CI, is much less than I requested in my Prelim and lba letters.

Waiting to see how they respond to my rejection letter...

[HP Mum]

They have rejected my CI claim.

 

They reply stating:

 

- I am claiming a refund of default charges dating back 10 years totalling £400+.

They say they have already taken into account the charges I detail.

 

- Their interest calculation was for apx the same amount as the charges refund claim (ie apx £400).

 

They say they calculated this figure in the same way interest is calculated at the time of debit from my account.

 

They state I have not incurred contractual interest for 3 years.

 

They say their offer works in my favour and ensures I have not lost out financially.

 

- Their interest figure was based on purchase apr of 14%

 

- my calculation was for 29.9% but their statements confirm an overall apr of 14.9%.

 

They state using 29.9% gives an incorrect interest calculation.

 

Their original offer stands.

 

 

So how do I respond to this?

[dx100uk]

any proof of this?

 

 

They state I have not incurred contractual interest for 3 years.

[HP Mum]

they passed the account to a dca 3 years ago.

No further interest was added.

I have just been paying off the balance and the old accrued interest.

[dx100uk]

then your spread claim to date must end then.

[HP Mum]

Thanks

So do I alter the spreadsheet to reflect no CI after the last fee they charged me?

 

 

I thought CI was applicable until they repaid all the charges...?? No? Can someone please confirm this.

 

 

The dca got the account 3 years ago.

If I change the "Claim to" box date on the spreadsheet to this date it reduces the CI by almost 2k.

H's current offer would still be >£500 lower if using no CI after the account passed to dca.

 

 

What is best next course of action?

[dx100uk]

Thanks

So do I alter the spreadsheet to reflect no CI after the last fee they charged me? - no the last date they charged you interest...

I thought CI was applicable until they repaid all the charges...?? No?

 

Can someone please confirm this.

 

The dca got the account 3 years ago.

 

If I change the "Claim to" box date on the spreadsheet to this date it reduces the CI by almost 2k.

 

H's current offer would still be >£500 lower if using no CI after the account passed to dca.

 

What is best next course of action?

 

you cant charge interest in restitution if they did levy it..unless you do court route on it

 

nothing to stop you asking for stat int that a court would award at 8% from the day after

they stopped their int mind

.

using the statint sheet on the cisheets total figure

 

dx

[HP Mum]

little confused about this.

So do I alter the Claim to date to October 2012 at 29.9% ?

I get CI of about 1k and a total balance of about 1.4k

And then do I just manually work out 8% pa of 1.4k ?

 

 

I'm also a bit confused about their statement that they charged 14%. I need to check my statements in the morning. I was sure it was +/- 29%

[dx100uk]

sri internet in nrt Scotland is really bad

 

 

ill update tomorrow when its settled down

 

 

dx

[HP Mum]

Just trying to compile a reply.

 

I have altered the CI sheet to remove CI after last interest added.

 

hsbc say they only charged me 14.9% interest.

 

I have checked the statements.

This is correct.

 

 

So am I wrong to charge them 29.9% on the CI spreadsheet?

 

If I use 14.9% I end up with lower than their settlement offer !

 

Should I instead allow 14.9 + statutory 8% ie: 22.9% ? or maybe 24.9 to allow for compensation??

 

Or can I argue the 29.9 as I was out of pocket all these years and that is compensation enough?

[dx100uk]

you are entitled to charge their avg int rate till they stopped charging it.

 

 

then take the TOTAL from the CISHEET

 

 

and pop it in as a whole figure on the day after that [and put that in the claim from box] in the statint sheet.

 

 

that will auto calc statint at 8% till the day they settle.

[HP Mum]

Not quite sure I understand your instructions using the CI reclaim sheet?

 

I make a note of the total at, say 14.9%. Then delete it from the Claim Calculation total box?

 

Then I change the date in the Claim from box to be the day after the last charge.

And change the Claim to box to today's date?

Then change the Interest % to 8%.

 

The claim calculation box then shows the charges total (which has stayed the same)

and the 8% interest figure in the Compound interest box.

 

Do I take the Compound interest figure and add it to the original total?

 

for example - if I had an original total of £700,

8% of the charges incurred from the day after to today is apx £300

- so the total I can claim is £1000?

 

Or am I doing it wrong?

 

Should I be charging 8% on the total (original charges and CI) ???

[HP Mum]

Is there a separate statutory interest claim sheet template?

[dx100uk]

This first spreadsheet is the latest version of the statutory interest calculator and is used for Single Premium PPI cases. It can also be used where rollover PPI is involved, i.e. a new loan re-financing a previous one and where PPI is included in one or more loans. It can also be used for S69 redress calculation on any sum, like on a closed/frozen interest PENALTY charges claim.

 

StatIntSheet v101.xls

[dx100uk]

as already indicated

leave the CISHEET and its dates as it was.

claim from date is the date of the first penalty charge on your list [assuming they are in date order on the cisheet]

 

claim to date is the last date they charged you their interest.

 

then take the WHOLE FIGURE from the CISHEET

 

pop it into the statint sheet as a single entry using the date 1 day after they stopped their interest.

 

the sheet will then auto calculate the 8% statint int you are entitled to as you've been deprived of that sum from the day they stopped charging int

 

so TWO spreadsheets are needed

 

ONE calcs the CI on each of their penalty charges from the date of each charge to the date they stopped charging their int and totals it

 

then THE OTHER calculates the 8% statint on that total sum till the day they settle the claim.......

 

include both spreadies and something like the attached file.