Vulnerability ignored - Sheriffs Office - Advice Needed

[Bulldog1979]

Hi

 

I need some help please

 

 

my (friend's) wife and her husband have a debt from an old business associate (long story)

- long and short of it they now have a high court writ for just over £24k.

 

I have been to the court twice to get it set aside

1) they are both on income based JSA

2) medical grounds / vulnerability

- both of which were rejected as the claimant should be given the opportunity to get the money back by way of the sheriffs so the writ still stands.

 

I spoke to CAB and stepchange and both have agreed that bankruptcy is the way forward

(although they have to wait over 8 weeks to try and get the £1050 grant from british gas!)

however they still need to deal with the sheriffs for the wife's sake!

 

I sent the following letter to them:

To: The Sheriffs Office

Date: 26th November 2014

Dear Sirs,

Re: *************************************

Account reference: *************

Claim Number: *************

 

We refer to your letter dated 14/11/2014 informing us that your company have been instructed by *************High Court

to enforce a High Court Writ against *************, in respect of Writ Claim Number *************.

 

In your letter you state that you will be visiting/returning to our home to remove our goods

unless full payment of £24,125.47 is made by 17/11/2014.

 

The purpose of this letter is to advise your company that we believe that our circumstances fall within

the category as contained within the National Standards for Enforcement Agents of “vulnerable situations”.

 

 

The reason for this is that:

• ************* are in receipt of Income Based JSA (see attached proof of claim)

 

• ************* is in long term ill health with High Blood Pressure,

Severe Anxiety & Hypertension which escalates when she gets anxious (see attached proof of medical evidence)

 

• *************’s relative passed away on 3rd November and was laid to rest on 12/11/2014 (see attached proof of cremation service)

 

Accordingly, we would like to request that you do not visit our property

& would refrain from calling our phone and that you would converse via letter / email

as this would cause undue stress and anxiety.

 

 

Instead, we would like to request that you return this case back to the claimant / high court.

 

 

We would be grateful if you could confirm safe receipt of this letter,

and confirmation that the case returned to the claimant / high court.

 

We have received advice from StepChange Debt Charity to help solve my debt problem.

We are in financial difficulties at the moment and not able to meet my normal monthly payments.

We will make a monthly payment of whatever we can afford until more money is available.

We have enclosed our monthly budget and a list of creditors.

After paying our household bills, we can pay you £1.

We will pay this each month and tell you when our circumstances change.

We will continue working with StepChange Debt Charity to improve our circumstances and find a more permanent solution to repay our debt.

 

 

In the meantime, please consider reducing or stopping interest or any other charges on our account to help us during our financial difficulties.

 

We have retained a copy of this letter for future reference.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

*************

 

By which they have now replied:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: ********** -v- ********** **********

Claim Number: **********

Thank you for your email dated 26th November.

 

We have noted our system accordingly.

Please note your token offer to pay £1.00 per month has been rejected.

 

We require you to submit reasonable payment proposals to us.

 

 

Please note this is a high priority debt and as such we require revised proposals to be submitted within 3 days.

 

We would confirm the balance currently stands at £24,183.76 with daily interest being applied.

 

We await hearing from you in due course.

 

Yours faithfully,

The Sheriffs Office

 

This is her Dr's letter that accompanied the original letter:

 

********* is registered with our practice since 1994 and i am one of the GPs she consults.

 

She suffers from Anxiety and Hypertension

 

Over the past 12 months she has been suffering from severe anxiety and is on three lots of medication to help her anxiety symptoms

 

she also has been having high blood pressure which escalates when she gets anxious

 

Yours sincerely

 

Dr *********

 

What are the other choices?

they cant pay anymore than max £4 per month

- they have over£15k of other debt (unsecured various)

- the main debt is this one but they also have rent

and c/tax debt too which i thought were priority debts -

not this one?

 

I'm going to write back saying they can only pay a max of £4 a mth

- they have seen our financial statement and believe me they haven't got anything else!

- they even asked the CAB if they should just let them in to see but they advised not to!?

 

Any other suggestions please?

they are getting desperate now and this is putting more and more stress on his wife which is not good for her health!

 

Thanks in advance

- play the devils advocate as much as you like

 

 

- i can take it ive thought of everything as far as i can tell and I just dont know where to turn!

[dx100uk]

you've told them they should be acting on it.

 

 

now go tell the court.

 

 

how old is the case?

why did they not contest the original CCJ?

 

 

dx

[Bulldog1979]

Hi dx100uk

 

Thanks for your prompt response - the last N245 was rejected 18/11 - they aren't acting on it - instead they're pushing for a better payment plan and have overlooked the rest of the letter (in my opinion)

 

They were advised not to due to the stress it would make on the wife as they were looking to go bankrupt? - not the best advised in hindsight but since then two separate N245's have been rejected so maybe it was for the better?

 

What could court do now if they rejected the grounds of vulnerability and JSA previously?

 

Thanks again

[HCEOs]

It sounds like the case could be abortive anyway unless they're living in a palace with a Roller on the drive.

 

In any event vulnerability must always be considered by any HCEO and on what you've put it looks to be fairly persuasive.

 

Are you sure there are not any other circumstances that would make the HCEO dismiss what you have stated?

[Bailiff Advice]

 

What are the other choices?

they cant pay anymore than max £4 per month

- they have over£15k of other debt (unsecured various)

- the main debt is this one but they also have rent

and c/tax debt too which i thought were priority debts -

not this one?

 

I'm going to write back saying they can only pay a max of £4 a mth

- they have seen our financial statement and believe me they haven't got anything else!

- they even asked the CAB if they should just let them in to see but they advised not to!?

 

Any other suggestions please?

they are getting desperate now and this is putting more and more stress on his wife which is not good for her health!

 

Thanks in advance

- play the devils advocate as much as you like

 

- i can take it ive thought of everything as far as i can tell and I just dont know where to turn!

 

Sorry, I have only read brief details from your above post and will respond later but from the little that I have read it would certainly appear that vulnerability can be evidenced.

 

Please try not to worry. Will respond later on.

[Bailiff Advice]

Hi dx100uk

 

Thanks for your prompt response - the last N245 was rejected 18/11 - they aren't acting on it - instead they're pushing for a better payment plan and have overlooked the rest of the letter (in my opinion)

 

They were advised not to due to the stress it would make on the wife as they were looking to go bankrupt? - not the best advised in hindsight but since then two separate N245's have been rejected so maybe it was for the better?

 

What could court do now if they rejected the grounds of vulnerability and JSA previously?

 

Thanks again

 

Can I just explain a few points here.

 

The difference with a debt that has been transfered to the High Court to enforce (as in this case) is that a High Court Officer (now called an Enforcement Agent) can be sued personally by the creditor if he misses the opportunity to take goods to secure the debt. It is for this very reason that if a payment arrangement is agreed the enforcement agent would still need to visit the property and he is legally allowed to charge an 'Enforcement Stage One' fee of £190 plus 7.5% on any sum over £2,000. Given that the debt is over £24,000 this fee would be an awful lot of money.

 

All enforcement companies have dedicated departments (sometimes called Welfare Departments) which deal with cases such as this one and I know that the Sheriffs Office have such a dept and the lady in charge is very fair indeed. I have sent a message to one of the site team to contact you with the relevant contact details for her.

[Bailiff Advice]

It sounds like the case could be abortive anyway unless they're living in a palace with a Roller on the drive.

 

In any event vulnerability must always be considered by any HCEO and on what you've put it looks to be fairly persuasive.

 

Are you sure there are not any other circumstances that would make the HCEO dismiss what you have stated?

 

You will see from my above post that I have asked one of the site team to get a message to the poster to provide him with the contact details of the lady running the Sheriffs Office 'welfare dept'. I will be sending her a message myself this morning to expect the posters email.

[wonkeydonkey]

You say you have twice applied to have the Writ set aside but to no avail, what grounds did you use to make your applications?

 

Depending on your reply, it could be that an N245 for variation to payment would be the best way forward, Did step change prepare your budget statement or was it one you prepared yourself? It would be worthwhile,as advised by BA to contact the Sheriffs welfare department, they should be able to go over a common financial statement with you and give you a guide to what figure a court would be looking for by way of a variation to payment.

[Bulldog1979]

You will see from my above post that I have asked one of the site team to get a message to the poster to provide him with the contact details of the lady running the Sheriffs Office 'welfare dept'. I will be sending her a message myself this morning to expect the posters email.

 

Thanks to Bailiff Advice - the Directors of Sheriffs Office have held the account for 14 days to review the vulnerability! - THANK YOU!!!

 

Hi Wonkeydonkey - the initial grounds to set aside was the JSA - denied" - the 2nd ground was vulnerability - denied!

 

Yes Step change did prepare the budget statement which i sent to the sheriffs office. - I will wait to see what the Directors of the Sheriffs Office say

[Bailiff Advice]

Thanks to Bailiff Advice - the Directors of Sheriffs Office have held the account for 14 days to review the vulnerability! - THANK YOU!!!

 

Hi Wonkeydonkey - the initial grounds to set aside was the JSA - denied" - the 2nd ground was vulnerability - denied!

 

Yes Step change did prepare the budget statement which i sent to the sheriffs office. - I will wait to see what the Directors of the Sheriffs Office say

 

Glad to be able to help.

[wonkeydonkey]

Thanks to Bailiff Advice - the Directors of Sheriffs Office have held the account for 14 days to review the vulnerability! - THANK YOU!!!

 

Hi Wonkeydonkey - the initial grounds to set aside was the JSA - denied" - the 2nd ground was vulnerability - denied!

 

Yes Step change did prepare the budget statement which i sent to the sheriffs office. - I will wait to see what the Directors of the Sheriffs Office say

 

When applying to set aside a Judgment you need 'grounds' that will either show the alleged debt is not owed or that a serious administrative error has been made in processing the claim which prevented you from submitting a defence to the claim. That you are in receipt of JSA or there are vulnerability issues are not grounds to set aside.

 

The N245 for variation of payment would however be based on both the above and quite simply ....if you can show the Court using your CFS there is not a penny more in the pot other than the amount offered, then in all likelyhood the claimant will be faced with 'take it or leave it'. In these situations the Court who can and will accept the amount offered for 3/6/9/12 months and advise that the claimant should then seek a review, the Judge will make an order to that effect.

 

The SO will attempt to work with you to agree an affordable and sustainable offer, if you still feel at the end of those negotiations the sum being asked is not affordable to you, then please do not enter into agreement 'just for the sake of it' and take the simple route to applying to stay the writ while also making an application to vary payments. That you have applied for variation of payments will be one of your grounds to stay the writ.

[ploddertom]

 

Thanks to Bailiff Advice - the Directors of Sheriffs Office have held the account for 14 days to review the vulnerability! - THANK YOU

 

 

 

And the result?

[Bulldog1979]

And the result?

 

Unsure as yet ploddertom - the 14 days has only just started today so I will keep you all posted!

[ploddertom]

When applying to set aside a Judgment you need 'grounds' that will either show the alleged debt is not owed or that a serious administrative error has been made in processing the claim which prevented you from submitting a defence to the claim. That you are in receipt of JSA or there are vulnerability issues are not grounds to set aside.

 

The N245 for variation of payment would however be based on both the above and quite simply ....if you can show the Court using your CFS there is not a penny more in the pot other than the amount offered, then in all likelyhood the claimant will be faced with 'take it or leave it'. In these situations the Court who can and will accept the amount offered for 3/6/9/12 months and advise that the claimant should then seek a review, the Judge will make an order to that effect.

 

The SO will attempt to work with you to agree an affordable and sustainable offer, if you still feel at the end of those negotiations the sum being asked is not affordable to you, then please do not enter into agreement 'just for the sake of it' and take the simple route to applying to stay the writ while also making an application to vary payments. That you have applied for variation of payments will be one of your grounds to stay the writ.

 

I can only agree with what has been said here.

[ploddertom]

Unsure as yet ploddertom - the 14 days has only just started today so I will keep you all posted!

 

Many thanks for that please keep us up to speed with progress.