ESA WRAG lifeskills?

[Mr.P]

My next appointment i have to complete a CV and email them it or fill in a form that will help create a draft for a cv. I'm wary of doing this as i don't want them to have my CV in their possession, they could end up sending it off to employers without my knowledge. So my plan is to complete my own CV and bring it in to show them without allowing them to keep a copy.

 

[...]they said i might have to do group sessions which i wouldn't be comfortable with, due to my health condition, hopefully i can't be mandated to do this.[...] So next time i will ask for a private room on a one to one basis.

 

A suggestion, if you have the equipment: Take a laptop/iPad in with the CV loaded - Show them the screen, and inform them that is all they will get to see.

 

Did have A4e "offer" to do a CV for me, but I told them in no uncertain terms, that based on what I had seen of their inability to string a coherent sentence together, coupled with their atrocious spelling, hell would freeze over before I would allow it. A quick look at a laptop screen was all they had out of me.

 

As for "group sessions", if you get mandated to attend one, you have the right to ask for a reconsideration of the activity on the grounds that it is unreasonable for you in light of health condition. From Chapter 3a:

48. Mandatory ESA and IS participants may request a reconsideration of any activity they

have been mandated to undertake. Where they do so you must look again at the

activity and take into account why the participant does not feel the activity is

appropriate, reconsider if the activity remains reasonable and appropriate in the

participant’s circumstances.

 

Also spotted this from the same document:

Re-arranging a mandatory activity

42. If prior to a participant undertaking a mandated activity, they contact you because they

are unable to undertake the activity, you may choose to re-arrange the activity and not

follow the compliance doubt process.

43. Re-arrange an activity does not contravene the good cause process undertaken by the

LM DM. This is because until the mandated activity date has occurred, no FTP has

occurred.

 

If an "adviser" tells you that they have to raise a benefit doubt for a Failure To Attend, they are lying - They have the option to rearrange without having to go through the process of raising a doubt.

[Lisbon67]

I ended up caving into the pressure of giving them a copy of my CV, they bullied me into it 3 different members of staff gathered round telling me they will sanction me. I am withdrawing my consent for them sharing my data.

 

Bit disappointed with myself for allowing them the CV but i can still withdraw consent for them to share it.

[Nystagmite]

If you haven't done so already, put a complaint in. That really is not on.

[Lisbon67]

They said i was putting my advisers job at risk by not complying with giving them a copy of my cv

[Nystagmite]

To which I would have asked "how is that my problem?"

[jasta11]

They said i was putting my advisers job at risk by not complying with giving them a copy of my cv

 

Oh, if only that were true! We could all withold our CV's and smile as the WP advisers were booted out of their jobs. I did my 2 years of wasted time with Ingeus and it never fails to amaze me the utter crap the work programme people come out with and the way they assume we know nothing about the rules and will just blindly believe it all.

 

Start recording every meeting and let them trip themselves up.

[Lisbon67]

To withdraw my consent to the data sharing do i give them the letter at my next interview or send it in post to the DWP?

 

Bit confused as to how to send it i have a draft of what to write, wondering should i hand them it in person or is there an address to send it?

 

Thanks.

[Mr.P]

Unfortunately, as a subcontractor to the DWP, Lifeskills are only the "data processor" as far as the Data Protection Act is concerned. The DWP is the registered "data controller", so it would be them that you would need to send any letters to. However, they have a legal requirement to process your data in order to administer any benefit claims.

 

Handing a letter to Lifeskills advisers would cause them confusion, and may limit what they do with your personal data. It is worth a try, but do not expect much from the exercise. (sorry if it is not the answer you were looking for).

[arcalite]

I think lifeskills are a subsidiary of working links, they're the ones I went to whilst on the work programme. Useless bunch.

 

I refused to sign their letters and had a big argument about it with the manager, basically these letters you may have signed allow them to harass any future employer you may have for confirmation of your employment (lifeskills and working links need this or they don't get paid from the government) even if they were zero help in finding you employment and you did it 100% off your own steam. I remember the numbers being something like them getting £400 just for taking you on, and if they can confirm you get a job (by hassling your employer or you as mentioned above) they get between £3k and £13k, more money for the more difficult a person, sex offender, ex prisoner etc. Dont quote me on those numbers though.

 

Pretty sure you can withdraw this consent by handing them a letter stating they no longer have permission to share your data.

[Mr.P]

I remember the numbers being something like them getting £400 just for taking you on, and if they can confirm you get a job (by hassling your employer or you as mentioned above) they get between £3k and £13k, more money for the more difficult a person

 

See table 3: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmworpen/162/16208.htm

 

It should be pointed out that the attachment fees were due to be reduced to zero over the first three years of the programme. The idea being that as the outcome & sustainment payments kicked in, there would be no disruption in the provider's revenue stream.

[spooks77]

Don't know if this helps but I had what seems like the same sort of treatment from my employment advisor. I told her quite blankly at the time that I was actually taking part in work related activity and as I was undertaking a part time degree and searching for work myself I would not have to as is specified by her as I was doing it with higher standards than Ingeus. As there is no definition as to what is not work related activity and also due to cases previously within parliament I had good cause and would prove this. She went on to say that there would be no action plan completed and that I would have to sign the form stating there was no action plan being taken and that I would not complete work related activity as stated by her as I was undertaking a degree. I gladly signed this and knowing that I can ask for a reconsideration of my action plan/work related activity now have to request a reconsideration of this. I know I have to do this as is stated by law, in writing and that it has to be taken into consideration, however I did state this point at a recent telephone interview and was advised by the adviser that I can not do this as there was no action plan to start with. Here is a copy of what was written earlier this morning if it is of any help to anyone and also any comments on how I stand would be greatly appreciated.

 

To whom it may concern,

 

In relation to The Employment and Support Allowance (Work-Related Activity) Regulations 2011 part 2, section 7 (1), (2) and (3), I would like to request a reconsideration of my Action Plan and the Work Related Activity I have to complete. I would like this new reconsidered Action Plan to include the completion of my Benefits Advice module and also the completion of the National Occupational Standards in First Line Employment Legal Advice Practice to have been completed, in the course of my Work Related Activity by the undertaking of a part time Degree course and completing a Certificate in Social Welfare Law, Policy and Advice Practice.

 

Because I have done this and also attended all telephone interviews and interviews in person (with the exception of when I have been unable due to disability) with (name of advisor) who is an employee of Ingeus, also because I have also searched and applied for positions of employment as can be shown by the enclosed copies of my e-mail address inbox, I would like it to be taken that I have completed work related activity as is required pursuant to Part 2, section 3, (2)(a) of those same regulations.

 

This request is made in consideration of all regulations and repeals to my knowledge via the Welfare Reform Act 2007, Welfare Reform Act 2009, The Employment and Support Allowance (Work-Related Activity) Regulations 2011 and Welfare Reform Act 2012.

 

I have enclosed copies of the repeals made by the Welfare Reform Act 2009 and Welfare Reform Act 2012, as well as a copy of The Employment and Support Allowance (Work-Related Activity) Regulations 2011 for your perusal to verify this. However due to the amount of paper required to make full copies of the appropriate Acts of Parliament as they have been priced in excess of Twenty Five Pound I feel it inappropriate to purchase these for your use.

 

I would also like to state that by asking for a reconsideration of an Action Plan that (advisors name) of Ingeus should in the course of her employment have prepared, that if this original Action Plan has not been created I am in effect asking for a consideration of a new Action Plan and for that Action Plan to include the relevant information with regards as to the work related activity I will have completed in relation to the completion of a Diploma in Social Welfare Law, Policy and Advice Practice over the preceding two years.

 

I would also like to request a decision of this new reconsidered action plan to be in writing, stating any reasons for the coming to the ultimate decision, so that this ultimate decision can be taken into consideration by a legal professional if the needs arise.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

John

 

Also she stated that as I have previously stated that I will show a law, that I have to show one with regards to good cause. I don't think she takes into consideration case law...

 

Here's a copy of that letter that will be getting delivered

 

To whom it may concern,

 

In relation to the incompletion of my work related activity as is specified by (advisors name) of Ingeus, I would like to claim that I have ‘good cause’ for this as I was at the time of the advice to complete work related activity actually taking part in work related activity via the undertaking of a part time Bachelor of Arts Degree and also the searching for and application for employment. This can be shown by the enclosed copies of my e-mail inbox which show application for employment and also the completion of the Certificate level of Social Welfare Law, Policy and Advice Practice Degree.

 

As “work-related activity”, in relation to a person, means activity which makes it more likely that the person will obtain or remain in work or be able to do so’ (p.1, s.13(7) Welfare Reform Act 2007)

 

I would like to declare and for it to be documented that I have ‘good cause’ for this incompletion of the advice provided by (advisers name) due to the fact that by the completion of the Certificate level of a Degree I have been taking part in work related activity which ‘makes it more likely that the person will obtain…..work or be able to do so’. (p.1, s.13(7) Welfare Reform Act 2007)

 

I have therefore been taking part in work related activity which I have been taking part in for at least two years previous to the advice by (advisors name) to undertake work related activity.

 

Also as ignorance can be shown as ‘good cause’ as is shown by Commissioner Hilary Magnus and that as is shown in paragraph 5 it was held that ‘in deciding whether there is good cause when ignorance has been put forward as the reason’…. ‘it IS necessary to consider whether there are any facts leading to a conclusion that the ignorance was reasonable’ (R(P) 1/79) (.rightsnet.org.uk) I wish to put forward that due to the fact that part 1, section 13(7) of the Welfare Reform Act 2007 does not specifically describe the work related activity, that I have undertaken and I am continuing with the undertaking of work related activity as I have been for the previous two years by the completion of a Bachelor of Arts Degree.

 

I would like to also specify that any ignorance of any further requirements to take part in work related interviews have been with ‘good cause’ due to the fact that as p.1, s.13(7) of the Welfare Reform Act 2007 does not specifically describe what would not be particular work related activity and paragraph 6 of (R(P) 1/79) states ‘that a mistaken belief reasonably held by the claimant was responsible for his failure’ (rightsnet.org..uk) the non-description of what is not ‘work related activity’ as is shown by the Welfare Reform Act 2007 is the reason and responsible for my ignorance to complete any further work related activity in excess of the completion of a degree and searching and applying for current market positions within the area of employment which are at least two areas of completing ‘work related activity’.

 

I also request a written explanation as to why any further decisions have been made in relation to your perspective on this

 

Hope this helps anyone

I am NOT a Lawyer, Solicitor or Barrister of any kind .... just like to read.

Edited January 5, 2015 by spooks77

[spooks77]

My adviser also tried telling me that because the Welfare Reform Act 2012 had been passed that the Welfare Reform Act 2007 etc was not relevant ..... i had to point out that just because the 2012 act is in does not mean that the 2007 was repealed. I did tell her to start looking over the repeals and amendments though as I have had to. It's only taken me about 500 sheets of paper and 1000 pages to read since 12:30am until 7:30 am ... good luck on her starting

[spooks77]

After reading the first letter to my employment adviser over the telephone she stated that she she doesn't know what I am talking about as I am completing work related activity and that everything is OK with regards to my Action Plan and the Work Related Activity I have undertaken. Guess hearing the specific paragraphs and sentences of various paragraphs of UK law scared them a bit.

Edited January 5, 2015 by spooks77

[Mr.P]

I have enclosed copies of the repeals made by the Welfare Reform Act 2009 and Welfare Reform Act 2012, as well as a copy of The Employment and Support Allowance (Work-Related Activity) Regulations 2011 for your perusal to verify this. However due to the amount of paper required to make full copies of the appropriate Acts of Parliament as they have been priced in excess of Twenty Five Pound I feel it inappropriate to purchase these for your use.

 

You don't need to enclose copies of any legislation. The government kindly publishes them, along with amendments and statutory instruments on the internet. Providing a URL should be sufficient, and if the recipient wishes for a hard copy, he/she can print it out.

 

Oh, and the average Work Programme "adviser" is ignorant in regards to the laws and guidance that governs their activities.... I had one telling me that I was "breaking the law" for recording our conversations. Don't think she appreciated me advising her to seek qualified legal advice