Accepted [unknown] Fake paper railcard from stranger - got caught!! **SETTLED OUT OF COURT**

[honeybee13]

I don't know if CCTV has been mentioned earlier in the thread, but I don't think it's kept more than a couple of months from memory, dx.

 

HB

[Sammy13]

well I wouldn't look at it that way DX. It worked for me. I wrote them a letter with those points. I know circumstances are different though but can give it a try

[honeybee13]

It's always worth a try, Sammy, I agree.

 

HB

[Bamboo_fighter]

Sammy,

 

Can I inbox you for more details???

[Sammy13]

sure

[Bamboo_fighter]

Hi Sammy,

 

I've tried to send you a private message, but was 10 posts short to be allowed to send a private message, so, I'll type on here.

 

Thanks for giving me hope, I want to get out of court at any costs. Could you please elaborate in a little more details how did you manage to get out?

 

I greatly appreciate your help!

[Sammy13]

hello there

 

what i did was i read their prosecution policy and took out points that support my case. but I did apologise and was remorsefull. I have pasted what I wrote to them

 

'Though I admit my mistake and ready to apologise, I would like you to kindly consider my case under TFL Revenue Enforcement and Prosecution Policy (10) as I am a student and a first time offender ( no penalty fare) and it will affect my career prospects especially in DBS checking.

 

TFL Revenue Enforcement and Prosecution Policy (10) as follows for your kind consideration;

Where the offence involves fare evasion TfL may decide to issue an offender with a Warning Letter in lieu of prosecution, where it is deemed appropriate and one or more of the following conditions are met:

a. The offender admits the irregular travel and;

b. The risk of re-offending is considered minimal and;

c. The offender has provided TfL with exceptional mitigation against prosecution or in the opinion of the Prosecutions Manager it is not in the public interest to prosecute and;

d. The offender agrees to pay the administrative costs incurred in the processing of the case file.

 

As per above given TFL Revenue Enforcement and Prosecution Policy (10) conditions (a) to (d) are met in my case.

 

Condition (a) is met as I admitted that it was an irregular travel and was the first time I did in my life. (Please Check Exhibit SA/01 as Evidence)

 

Condition (b) is met as my Oyster Card History which is attached as Exhibit SA/01 where you can find I travel regularly with my own Oyster card, even the day before I was caught; I used my own Oyster Card. Moreover, I admitted, apologised and promised that I am not going to do this wrongdoing again in my life.'

[Bamboo_fighter]

Hi Sammy,

 

This sounds really well! Thanks, I will now apply this to my case. Could you also state what were you caught for?

Also, could you please elaborate point C?

 

P.S. At that time, I was still being considered as a student, as I was awarded with my MA on 1st November 2014

 

Many thanks

[dx100uk]

be careful

this is a fake ticket here not simply evasion.

[Bamboo_fighter]

Hi dx,

 

Yes, but I did not know that at the time of possession. Still, I think it is worth trying, don't you think? What's worst can happen?

[Sammy13]

Hello there i was summoned to court for using my friends 18+ oyster card. Point C is just how this prosecution can affect my future in employment. the need to have a clear DBS is what I wrote to them. But the key thing is to be apologetical and remorsefull and then you have to write what I posted!!

[firstclassx]

Hi dx,

 

Yes, but I did not know that at the time of possession. Still, I think it is worth trying, don't you think? What's worst can happen?

 

Well the last person on here with a fake (season) ticket is about to be sent to prison for a few months after being convicted of possession of a fraudulent article. Although he was already on a suspended sentence, the judge more than likely would have still have sent this person to prison, just for less time.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?425177-Counterfeit-Ticket/page2

 

He also tried to use the defence of "I didn't know it was counterfeit".

 

Depends what you are convicted off.

 

Section 5 - Regulation of Railways Act 1889 = Heavy fine

Section 6 - Fraud Act 2006 = Very heavy fine or imprisonment

[Bamboo_fighter]

Well the last person on here with a fake (season) ticket is about to be sent to prison for a few months after being convicted of possession of a fraudulent article. Although he was already on a suspended sentence, the judge more than likely would have still have sent this person to prison, just for less time.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?425177-Counterfeit-Ticket/page2

 

He also tried to use the defence of "I didn't know it was counterfeit".

 

Depends what you are convicted off.

 

Section 5 - Regulation of Railways Act 1889 = Heavy fine

Section 6 - Fraud Act 2006 = Very heavy fine or imprisonment

 

Hi FirstClass,

 

Thank for your response.

 

I've been sent documents of the prosecution from Tfl last week with the following:

 

It says 'Contrary to S.5(3)(a) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 as amended by Section 84 (2) of the Transport Act 1962 and Section 18 of the British Railways Act 1970. Was travelling on the railway without having paid the fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof.'

 

It also says 'an application will be made in court for a £130 contribution towards the costs of tfl. There will also be an application for compensation of £4.70 in respect of the fare avoided'

[dx100uk]

ofcourse you didn't, and I've related to this already

your issue, as has been pointed out in their letter

 

 

Today I have received a reply from them with a refusal to settle out of court.

They wrote me that they do not believe I was using that counterfeit ticket unintentionally

and they do not believe someone gave it to me at that time of the day.

 

 

so that's what you need to counter

 

 

telling them how they should 'judge' your case

by using the suggested text in post 57 IMHO wont help you.

 

 

that's not the issue you need to counter.

 

 

dx

[Bamboo_fighter]

Thank you dx,

 

I now feel stressed again.

 

What if I write them honestly that "I've been working hard for the past 4 years at the university,

spent a lot of money on the tuition fees and finally, after 6 months of consecutive search, I found my dream job within finance industry.

 

 

However, working here requires clean DBs, so, criminal record can destroy my career.

 

 

Given that, my whole life's hard work might result in being wasted.

 

 

In consequence to that, I am in a great depression and in my current mood, might consider to commit a suicide over this matter."

 

I know it may sound harsh, but it is my dream employment, which I was working for really hard all my life. Please advice me on this

Edited February 11, 2015 by Bamboo_fighter

[dx100uk]

its a threat - you don't threaten them that you will kill yourself if they don't do xyz.

 

 

again, the main issue here is not your future employment

its convincing them that you did not know the ticket was a fake when you accepted it.

 

 

i'll let others comment now.

 

 

dx

[Bamboo_fighter]

Hi everyone,

 

It's me again. I am really desperate now, as my efforts are getting me nowhere.

 

I've decided to send one more begging letter to Prosecutions Manager directly. I also think to send a copy of this letter to a Managing Director of TfL, following an example of the following case:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...91#post4348691

 

I found two potential Managing Directors to contact:

London Underground & Rail Managing Director and; General Counsel

 

Which one should I rather send my letter to? And would that be appropriate?

 

In the aforementioned case, contacting Managing Director has actually helped that person to settle his case out of court.

 

I hope to hear you views on this.

 

Kind regards,

BF

[firstclassx]

Neither! You're just digging a huge hole!

 

Sometimes in life you have to accept that things aren't going to work out how you would like them to.

 

Best thing to do now is to prepare for the worst that you expect and think about how you can develop yourself after this is finished.

[firstclassx]

No more correspondence!

 

Turn up at the court with an amount of cash, and speak to the prosecutor before going in, see if he'll take a last minute settlement (don't count on it).

 

If he won't agree to that, see if he'll agree to reduce the offence to a Byelaw, which again I seriously doubt he'll do at such a late stage.

 

That is all you can do!

 

Plead guilty at earliest opportunity and apologise in person to the court and you'll probably find yourself with a lighter sentence but convicted nevertheless.

[Bamboo_fighter]

Hi firstclass,

 

I've been summoned to court for the following:

'Contrary to S.5(3)(a) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 as amended by Section 84 (2) of the Transport Act 1962 and Section 18 of the British Railways Act 1970. Was travelling on the railway without having paid the fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof.'

 

Are you trying to say that they can change the above-mentioned conviction to fraud??

 

P.S. Old-CodJa always advises to keep negotiating up to, and even on, the day of a hearing.

 

I'm confused...

Edited February 12, 2015 by Bamboo_fighter

[firstclassx]

You can negotiate right up to the day, but TfL are not interested in doing so as you have demonstrated. You have already tried to negotiate which means your only opportunity left is on the day of the court hearing. Emailing directors etc is only likely to antagonise them and make them believe you are not remorseful, just trying to get off with it by going to the bosses.

 

You can carry on emailing the prosecutions team but they evidently aren't interested and you really don't want to start annoying them, especially if you will need to see them on the day!

 

And we'll, yes they could change it to fraud, but they won't.

They COULD change it to a breach of Railway Byelaw which doesn't carry a criminal record, and is a less serious offence. You'd have to plead to the prosecutor on the day and see if he'd do that.

[BazzaS]

You can negotiate right up to the day, but TfL are not interested in doing so as you have demonstrated. You have already tried to negotiate which means your only opportunity left is on the day of the court hearing. Emailing directors etc is only likely to antagonise them and make them believe you are not remorseful, just trying to get off with it by going to the bosses.

 

You can carry on emailing the prosecutions team but they evidently aren't interested and you really don't want to start annoying them, especially if you will need to see them on the day!

 

I concur. The Prosecutions team have made their decision clear.

Turning up on their doorstep without an appointment, mailing all and sundry (without adding some new reason why the Prosecutions team's decision is unfair or against their policies), and approaching people through LinkedIn (all of which the OP has considered ....) seem to me to show desperation, rather than remorse ....

 

 

And we'll, yes they could change it to fraud, but they won't.

They COULD change it to a breach of Railway Byelaw which doesn't carry a criminal record, and is a less serious offence. You'd have to plead to the prosecutor on the day and see if he'd do that.

 

It used to be that a Byelaw conviction didn't show on a standard CRB, but did on an Enhanced CRB, so it wasn't strictly true that a Byelaw conviction didn't carry a criminal record, only that it didn't always show on all checks.

 

http://www.merseyrail.org/media/214739/PROSECUTIONS.pdf shows this, but although the page is currently available it still refers to CRB's, which have now been replaced by DBS / eDBS's.

I suspect a Byelaw conviction will still show on an eDBS, (as they were pretty much a direct replacement CRB-> DBS, eCRB -> eDBS), but I cannot be certain.

[Bamboo_fighter]

I concur. The Prosecutions team have made their decision clear.

Turning up on their doorstep without an appointment, mailing all and sundry (without adding some new reason why the Prosecutions team's decision is unfair or against their policies), and approaching people through LinkedIn (all of which the OP has considered ....) seem to me to show desperation, rather than remorse ....

 

Hi BazzaS,

 

Thanks for your comment. You mentioned their policies, so I have reviewed their Prosecution policy with a great interest.

 

In Section 10, it says:

TFL Revenue Enforcement and Prosecution Policy (10):

Where the offence involves fare evasion TfL may decide to issue an offender with a Warning Letter in lieu of prosecution, where it is deemed appropriate and one or more of the following conditions are met:

a. The offender admits the irregular travel and;

b. The risk of re-offending is considered minimal and;

c. The offender has provided TfL with exceptional mitigation against prosecution or in the opinion of the Prosecutions Manager it is not in the public interesticon to prosecute and;

d. The offender agrees to pay the administrative costs incurred in the processing of the case file.

 

So, I found that in my case, I meet all the above mentioned conditions, as:

A) I admit irregular travel and my mistake;

B) I was a student at a time of the incident (no penalty) and it was my first ever offence, hence - minimal re-offending risk;

C) I am working in the City, in finance industry, where they require to have a clean DBS. Therefore, this job is the aim of my whole life and this little mistake puts my whole life's hard work at risk.

D) I agree to pay all the costs and fees.

 

 

P.S. I know that DX does not approve this method, stating that this is "lecturing" them on how to perform their duties, but in their letter they referred their decision to this prosecution policy. FirstClass also does not recommend it either. Perhaps they have missed a few aspects that might work out in my favour. Especially since while I was having a conversation with a prosecutor via the phone, he mentioned that they might change their mind if I provide exceptional circumstances, like losing job etc.

 

Lastly, this has helped Sammy to get his case sorted out of court. I know that his case was different, but by reading his thread, I've got an impression that he was in a similar desperation as me.

 

I am really lost about my further actions. Getting to court on the day of the hearing is troublesome, as I will have to come up with the excuse for my management (and I don't want to tell them I am summoned to court), but pleading by post and not attending scares me off by the possibility that they might decide to prosecute me for fraud instead(which would be totally unfair in my case). FirstClass mentioned that this is unlikely to occur, but I am still worried... Do you know how much (usually) time is spent in court in such matters???

[BazzaS]

Hi BazzaS,

 

Thanks for your comment. You mentioned their policies, so I have reviewed their Prosecution policy with a great interest.

 

In Section 10, it says:

TFL Revenue Enforcement and Prosecution Policy (10):

Where the offence involves fare evasion TfL may decide to issue an offender with a Warning Letter in lieu of prosecution, where it is deemed appropriate and one or more of the following conditions are met:

a. The offender admits the irregular travel and;

b. The risk of re-offending is considered minimal and;

c. The offender has provided TfL with exceptional mitigation against prosecution or in the opinion of the Prosecutions Manager it is not in the public interesticon to prosecute and;

d. The offender agrees to pay the administrative costs incurred in the processing of the case file.

 

So, I found that in my case, I meet all the above mentioned conditions, as:

A) I admit irregular travel and my mistake;

B) I was a student at a time of the incident (no penalty) and it was my first ever offence, hence - minimal re-offending risk;

C) I am working in the City, in finance industry, where they require to have a clean DBS. Therefore, this job is the aim of my whole life and this little mistake puts my whole life's hard work at risk.

D) I agree to pay all the costs and fees.

 

 

P.S. I know that DX does not approve this method, stating that this is "lecturing" them on how to perform their duties, but in their letter they referred their decision to this prosecution policy. FirstClass also does not recommend it either. Perhaps they have missed a few aspects that might work out in my favour. Especially since while I was having a conversation with a prosecutor via the phone, he mentioned that they might change their mind if I provide exceptional circumstances, like losing job etc.

 

Lastly, this has helped Sammy to get his case sorted out of court. I know that his case was different, but by reading his thread, I've got an impression that he was in a similar desperation as me.

 

I am really lost about my further actions. Getting to court on the day of the hearing is troublesome, as I will have to come up with the excuse for my management (and I don't want to tell them I am summoned to court), but pleading by post and not attending scares me off by the possibility that they might decide to prosecute me for fraud instead(which would be totally unfair in my case). FirstClass mentioned that this is unlikely to occur, but I am still worried... Do you know how much (usually) time is spent in court in such matters???

 

You can't have things both (all) ways.

Either you are going to have to take time off work and attend court, speaking to the prosecutor or you can not take time off work & plead guilty by post.

 

Exceptional circumstances? In one respect if fare evasion puts your job at risk the answer is simple : don't fare evade.

I'm not sure that people in jobs where a conviction puts their job at risk should be able to claim they should be less liable for prosecution than someone in a less "sensitive" job - that would seem unfair to me, and not "exceptional circumstances"

[Bamboo_fighter]

You can't have things both (all) ways.

Either you are going to have to take time off work and attend court, speaking to the prosecutor or you can not take time off work & plead guilty by post.

 

Exceptional circumstances? In one respect if fare evasion puts your job at risk the answer is simple : don't fare evade.

I'm not sure that people in jobs where a conviction puts their job at risk should be able to claim they should be less liable for prosecution than someone in a less "sensitive" job - that would seem unfair to me, and not "exceptional circumstances"

 

With all due respect, seeing other people in similar situations as mine, getting out of court for the same efforts as mine, while I am still being prosecuted - seems unfair to me.